General 2016 Blue Jays discussion thread

[BigCecil]

Atkins on the radio now saying he's "pretty comfortable with what we have right now" in advance of the trade deadline. Says they will still "look to make the team better if possible"

 

Sounds like every hockey player interview "we are going to keep it simple. Get pucks down low and on the net. Work hard. Play it one shift at a time" He is doing a good job at keeping expectations minimal.

[G-Snarls]

does the host have the balls to ask about the Edwin tampering fracas?

 

The host asked him and he completely skirted the question

[Brownie19]

You think Adam Lind and Reddick can replace EE and Bautsita?? LOL. Those guys are a couple tiers below EE and Bautista, guys like Reddick would be a solid piece to sure up the outfield not rely on them completely. How much do we truly save if we go with Reddick or Moss? Those guys are going to command 3-4 years above QO so let's say both 18 million a year you're looking at $36M/year or even if they both sign at QO rate you're looking at $30M. If we unload Martin (which I have a strong feeling we will), $9-15M per year extra is nothing for a team this big. Especially if we make/win the World Series. I was thinking we slot EE at first, Bautista at DH and get a guy like Reddick to play the outfield and even then we have a hole in the outfield if we don't sign Saunders. This team is good but taking these 2 out is a mistake

 

Edit: LOL come one man I just saw Lind's fangraphs page, in 70 games he's at -0.7 war and still s*** vs. Lefties. Don't forget his s***** lazy attitude that AA alluded to when we traded him. Don't want this guy near our team

 

I think there's a decent chance Reddick is more valuable than Jose next year. The point might be that there are ways to re-tool and remain competitive without having to take the risk that a 36 year old remains productive for 3 more years. The biggest thing with EE and Jose is there's a chance their contracts become negatives in a HURRY. You have to weigh that risk/reward.

[sawyerford]

Atkins on the radio now saying he's "pretty comfortable with what we have right now" in advance of the trade deadline. Says they will still "look to make the team better if possible"

 

Pretty much every GM says that before the deadline, they will make a trade.

[Sammy225]

Sounds like every hockey player interview "we are going to keep it simple. Get pucks down low and on the net. Work hard. Play it one shift at a time" He is doing a good job at keeping expectations minimal.

 

I think i like it then the balls in the air speech that AA liked to throw out there.

[Governator]

How many free agents have their arms raised to sign in Toronto though? The list is short, you can't assume we'll just lock up Reddick or Moss instread. Hell, there's only been a handful of big name FA that have signed here over the past 20 years. Since Roger Clemens days, we've seen Melky, Martin, a 40yr old Frank Thomas, and BJ Ryan from the top of my head. If we can lock up EE and or Bautista with shorter term deals I'd do it.

[Boxcar]

How many free agents have their arms raised to sign in Toronto though? The list is short, you can't assume we'll just lock up Reddick or Moss instread. Hell, there's only been a handful of big name FA that have signed here over the past 20 years. Since Roger Clemens days, we've seen Melky, Martin, a 40yr old Frank Thomas, and BJ Ryan from the top of my head. If we can lock up EE and or Bautista with shorter term deals I'd do it.

 

The Jays were perceived as losers who played in an empty stadium for pretty much the entirety of those 20 years, though. I really doubt that perception exists now.

 

Also, AJ Burnett (which was a massive signing when it happened).

[Governator]

The Jays were perceived as losers who played in an empty stadium for pretty much the entirety of those 20 years, though. I really doubt that perception exists now.

 

I think it's more about playing for Team Canada then signing with a .500 team.

[fatcowxlive]

I think there's a decent chance Reddick is more valuable than Jose next year. The point might be that there are ways to re-tool and remain competitive without having to take the risk that a 36 year old remains productive for 3 more years. The biggest thing with EE and Jose is there's a chance their contracts become negatives in a HURRY. You have to weigh that risk/reward.

 

True. We'll see how Bautista does, I think Reddick could be poised to have good seasons here with his power and great walk% so the philosophy is there. While Bautista might be a reach, EE certainly can put up 3 productive years. You gotta bet on that if he accepts a 3 year term. This guy has been consistently good and we have no other 1B options.

[Boxcar]

I think it's more about playing for Team Canada then signing with a .500 team.

 

I guess we will see. If the Jays have issues signing the guys they want this offseason, you will be correct.

[Governator]

I guess we will see. If the Jays have issues signing the guys they want this offseason, you will be correct.

 

Remember when Jays deferred money to get their boy Santana here with a top dollar bid? He still wouldn't come here.

 

edit: Sorry not deferred. I don't know the term, players paying for his salary from their own pockets.

[G-Snarls]

How many free agents have their arms raised to sign in Toronto though? The list is short, you can't assume we'll just lock up Reddick or Moss instread. Hell, there's only been a handful of big name FA that have signed here over the past 20 years. Since Roger Clemens days, we've seen Melky, Martin, a 40yr old Frank Thomas, and BJ Ryan from the top of my head. If we can lock up EE and or Bautista with shorter term deals I'd do it.

 

Bowden and others keep suggesting a Cespedes type deal for Bautista

[fatcowxlive]

How many free agents have their arms raised to sign in Toronto though? The list is short, you can't assume we'll just lock up Reddick or Moss instread. Hell, there's only been a handful of big name FA that have signed here over the past 20 years. Since Roger Clemens days, we've seen Melky, Martin, a 40yr old Frank Thomas, and BJ Ryan from the top of my head. If we can lock up EE and or Bautista with shorter term deals I'd do it.

 

We attracted FA's like Paul Molitor when we were making runs. When teams preform the FA's come. Pair that with ownership who is part of a Canadian monopoly (essentially, with Bell, thanks CRTC!) that owns the TV rights to their OWN channel (that has over 1M viewers per game) and own the stadium (best average attendance in the AL)...

 

This team is an attractive destination, don't even get me started about the city. Most multicultural city in the world. As far as sports here, the Raptors who are very successful, TFC made the playoffs with a high profile player, and the Leafs are poised to succeed based on what I read and see about their new philosophy. And say what you want about Drake, he made the city cool to come to and coined the phrase "the 6" and call it what you want, when you see players like Donaldson, Bautista, Stroman and Sanchez buy into it so much you see what impact that has on the popularity of the city. We've become a cool spot

[Stangstag]

Yeah my bad on Adam Lind, last time I checked his stats was like a month or two ago and he was doing very well. Forget him.

 

But I will stick by my opinion that Reddick + Moss is probably not much dropoff compared to Jose + Edwin.

 

I'm not expecting Edwin and Jose to be this good for the next few years. The decline probably starts soon.

[Grant77]

Remember when Jays deferred money to get their boy Santana here with a top dollar bid? He still wouldn't come here.

 

edit: Sorry not deferred. I don't know the term, players paying for his salary from their own pockets.

 

I'm pretty sure guys like Jose offered to defer their salary for that year to make room for Santana.

[Stangstag]

Remember when Jays deferred money to get their boy Santana here with a top dollar bid? He still wouldn't come here.

 

edit: Sorry not deferred. I don't know the term, players paying for his salary from their own pockets.

 

Its a bit different for pitchers vs hitters. A power hitter would probably love RC compared to say... Kauffman stadium. For a pitcher, I would expect the opposite.

[Terminator]

The Jays were perceived as losers who played in an empty stadium for pretty much the entirety of those 20 years, though. I really doubt that perception exists now.

 

Also, AJ Burnett (which was a massive signing when it happened).

 

That and not offering top dollar for free agents. When we did, like with Burnett, we were able to sign them.

[Governator]

We attracted FA's like Paul Molitor when we were making runs. When teams preform the FA's come. Pair that with ownership who is part of a Canadian monopoly (essentially, with Bell, thanks CRTC!) that owns the TV rights to their OWN channel (that has over 1M viewers per game) and own the stadium (best average attendance in the AL)...

 

This team is an attractive destination, don't even get me started about the city. Most multicultural city in the world. As far as sports here, the Raptors who are very successful, TFC made the playoffs with a high profile player, and the Leafs are poised to succeed based on what I read and see about their new philosophy. And say what you want about Drake, he made the city cool to come to and coined the phrase "the 6" and call it what you want, when you see players like Donaldson, Bautista, Stroman and Sanchez buy into it so much you see what impact that has on the popularity of the city. We've become a cool spot

 

Yes, Toronto has always been a great city but most American ball players come from the west coast or southern states, they know little about Canada and to them it obviously sounds worse than it is. I remember Adam Lind once talking how it's just a pain in the ass playing in and out of a different country every few days. Custom's alone is a pain, Canadian/American money, taxes, etc. Want to fly in some family, make sure they have passports.

 

Also regarding free agents from early 90s, we were already a good team for the past 10 years and turf wasn't a deterrent, it had been in a dozen stadiums by that point but that trend ended quickly and no one wanted to play on the surface. I think once we have natural grass it will attract more to be honest.

[Atothe]

Yeah my bad on Adam Lind, last time I checked his stats was like a month or two ago and he was doing very well. Forget him.

 

But I will stick by my opinion that Reddick + Moss is probably not much dropoff compared to Jose + Edwin.

 

I'm not expecting Edwin and Jose to be this good for the next few years. The decline probably starts soon.

 

If you can get them for cheap but Edwin and a healthy Bautista s*** on those guys

[Grant77]

Rich Hill has been scratched from tomorrow's start. We will instead face Daniel Mengden. Nice break.

[Maahfaace]

I think its a certain type of person that will entertain Canada as a destination for free agency. Some of the athletes who have turned down offers from Toronto in the major sports are of the ignorant kind. I remember comments like "they dont get ESPN" and " My kids won't learn about american history in school" not to mention the classics "Canadian health care is awful, I want the best for my family" and " The weather is too cold" (NBA all-star game cold snap didnt help that out at all)

This negative perception might be changing slightly, but for the most part if its an ignorant tool of a person a team is targeting, odds are in favor of his ignorance winning.

[Krylian]

Rich Hill has been scratched from tomorrow's start. We will instead face Daniel Mengden. Nice break.

 

We'll see.

 

How many times have we seen lesser arms give us fits.

[fatcowxlive]

Yes, Toronto has always been a great city but most American ball players come from the west coast or southern states, they know little about Canada and to them it obviously sounds worse than it is. I remember Adam Lind once talking how it's just a pain in the ass playing in and out of a different country every few days. Custom's alone is a pain, Canadian/American money, taxes, etc. Want to fly in some family, make sure they have passports.

 

Also regarding free agents from early 90s, we were already a good team for the past 10 years and turf wasn't a deterrent, it had been in a dozen stadiums by that point but that trend ended quickly and no one wanted to play on the surface. I think once we have natural grass it will attract more to be honest.

 

While I agree about the bottom part in being successful for 10 years and the whole turf thing, I think it's not fair to compare the social state of Toronto even 5 years ago till now. 2010 Toronto had a s***: MLB, NHL, NBA, and MLS franchises with literally no one knowing who Toronto is. Now all the celebs talk about Toronto and one of the biggest artists is Torontonian who markets himself with the city. People know what Toronto is now, people loved the NBA all-star game this year it was a huge hit despite the cold. Also now we have another successful sports franchise in the Raptors, TFC and bringing in high level international talent, and the Leafs are one of the more highly anticipated teams.

 

We all knew how good Toronto was as Torontonians, but now the US know that too. Pair it with the fact that we actually have started winning as a sports city is amazing too. Players pay attention to the whole "One team one nation" idea and how many fans are in the stands. Especially the AL players that come here, it gets absolutely deafening on a daily basis. We still have a ways to go but our name has shot up most people's list. Don't forget we have a (potentially) 2x MVP here repping us hard to. It's not that hard of a sell if we're competitive with our offers.

[Brownie19]

True. We'll see how Bautista does, I think Reddick could be poised to have good seasons here with his power and great walk% so the philosophy is there. While Bautista might be a reach, EE certainly can put up 3 productive years. You gotta bet on that if he accepts a 3 year term. This guy has been consistently good and we have no other 1B options.

 

Do you want me to start giving you examples of big name FA's that signed high price contracts in the early to mid 30's only to turn into a pumpkin almost immediately??? Pujols, Fielder, Hamilton, Jason Bay, Mo Vaughn, A.Jones, Upton...

 

EE and Jose come with massive risk. That's reality.

[Stangstag]

If you can get them for cheap but Edwin and a healthy Bautista s*** on those guys

 

You're assuming Edwin and Jose will continue to be effective for several more years, but is a gamble. They're already all-bat players, if their batspeed declines to a point where they can't catch up to fastballs... Also consider the fact that we would be paying 20+million per year for each of them, and they are both 1B/DH players.

[Stangstag]

Do you want me to start giving you examples of big name FA's that signed high price contracts in the early to mid 30's only to turn into a pumpkin almost immediately??? Pujols, Fielder, Hamilton, Jason Bay, Mo Vaughn, A.Jones, Upton...

 

EE and Jose come with massive risk. That's reality.

 

That's exactly what I'm getting at. At least with Upton and Jones they can play a premium defensive position, so they're still serviceable. If Bautista or Edwin stop hitting, they are literally useless. Like Fielder and Pujols

[fatcowxlive]

Do you want me to start giving you examples of big name FA's that signed high price contracts in the early to mid 30's only to turn into a pumpkin almost immediately??? Pujols, Fielder, Hamilton, Jason Bay, Mo Vaughn, A.Jones, Upton...

 

EE and Jose come with massive risk. That's reality.

 

Yes but what I'm saying is at $20/year for 3 years you take the flier. Did I suggest we give EE the Pujols treatment??? Or give him 5 years plus?????? This started with Dinger saying 20/year for 3/4 years. Do I do that? f*** yes, you'd be crazy not to because of the other players that got listed, usually they sign 5-8 year, $25-30MM deals. If Edwin commands $125M across 5 years I'll say goodbye to him, I don't like committing long term to aging players like Shapiro and Atkins and AA before him don't.

[Atothe]

You're assuming Edwin and Jose will continue to be effective for several more years, but is a gamble. They're already all-bat players, if their batspeed declines to a point where they can't catch up to fastballs... Also consider the fact that we would be paying 20+million per year for each of them, and they are both 1B/DH players.

 

I don't believe in reddick long term. Moss I haven't been following so I could care less.

[Sorrow]

Apparently the three Bs (Barker, Bobcat and Blair) are saying the Jays should trade Bautista to the Dodgers for Puig + +. I honestly don't know how these three are employed to talk about baseball or sports in general when the eggs in my fridge have a better grasp on reality.

[BigCecil]

True. We'll see how Bautista does, I think Reddick could be poised to have good seasons here with his power and great walk% so the philosophy is there. While Bautista might be a reach, EE certainly can put up 3 productive years. You gotta bet on that if he accepts a 3 year term. This guy has been consistently good and we have no other 1B options.

 

Those 2 are big holes to fill but so far this year they have provided only 3.3 WAR in 2 roster spots and we have 50 wins at the AS Break. With the money we would save in not signing them there is room to backfill that loss. I see 3 years as the max risk we could take on them, and even that scares the hell out of me with their expected AAV. Have to say though that if Jose doesn't come back with a vengeance, his value will drop big time. DL/lost production/age = risk

 

The big argument for a 5 year deal some were making was how well he kept himself in shape and that that would allow him to beat aging curves. The guy has had hip, shoulder and now toe issues of all things.