Jose: 'I dont believe in hometown discounts Ive given a 5-year home discount already"

[Dr. Dinger]

Grouping Donaldson with every other trade he has made the last three years (Marlins, Dickey, Price, Tulo) doesn't make the sum better. Trading prospects for four years of arbitration versus prospects for huge free agent contracts attached to players in their 30's doesn't quite mean the same thing.

 

I don't regret the Price or Tulo trades even for a second. Norris has yet to demonstrate that he's anything more than a replacement level starter, while Price was a substantial upgrade for our spot on the win curve and carried us to within a pube of the world series. The Tulo trade was just a plain heist.

[burlingtonbandit]

Grouping Donaldson with every other trade he has made the last three years (Marlins, Dickey, Price, Tulo) doesn't make the sum better. Trading prospects for four years of arbitration versus prospects for huge free agent contracts attached to players in their 30's doesn't quite mean the same thing.

 

The Bautista and EE extensions were worth more than the value given up in the Marlins trade. If you were to combine all of AA's moves they would grade out as a plus.

[L54]

The Bautista and EE extensions were worth more than the value given up in the Marlins trade. If you were to combine all of AA's moves they would grade out as a plus.

 

I'm willing to bet you didn't do the math on this.

[Dick_Pole]

So your saying that if Shapiro/Atkins can't keep all these (expensive) players on he should be pegged as a failure? Is that what your saying?

 

Nooooooooo....I'm saying that if Shapiro and Atkins are capable at their jobs, there's no reason to think that this team will go the way of the 2015 Atlanta Braves. And if it does go that way, the only people to be blaming will be the ones staring back at them in the mirror.

[CHRIS]

Jose can't win. He's getting asked about contract extensions probably every day. Would you rather he lied and created unrealistic expectations that he will re-sign?

 

The Jays have paid Bautista $56M on this extension so far and have collected 18.1 WAR for their money, or a staggeringly juicy $3M/WAR. That's less than half of market value over the course of the deal. Even if Bautista didn't play a game this year, we'd still have made a killing on that contract ($3.8M/WAR vs somewhere between $6-8M/WAR @ market rate). Pay the man or else let someone else do it. He's earned it.

 

I don't think he has to lie, just a blanket statement to not discuss publicly.

 

There's no doubt that his previous extension has worked out fabulously for the Jays; just seems like a sour way to start spring training. That said, I haven't watched any of the videos or read any of his statements regarding this; going exclusively off comments ITT.

[Dr. Dinger]

For a man like Jose who is supposedly of above average intelligence compared to the regular joe baseball player, there is a better way to communicate this stuff to at least maintain optics than the comments that have been attributed to him in this thread. I hope it's not a product of him being angry at or feel insulted by the new regime.

 

He could just say "I'm not going to comment on contract negotiations" or "Hopefully we can come to terms on a figure that works for both sides" but he's being honest instead. Oh well. It just so happens he's completely correct. The man has given us at least $70M in surplus value over the last 4 years alone, and that doesn't even factor in his legendary 2011 and 2012 campaigns while getting paid peanuts in arb. If you roll in those two seasons as well, he's given us approximately $130M in surplus value as a Blue Jay. I would definitely feel insulted if I was getting nickel and dimed in his situation.

[Laika]

Jose is talking to Rogers, I think.

[KingKat]

Every team would love to keep all the trades that worked out and get a do-over on the ones that didn't... Doesn't exactly work like that.

 

Also can we stop with the Yan Gomes deal. Thats like Pirates fans complaining about the Jose Bautista trade.

 

Oh come on, this isn't about picking and choosing which deals did and which didn't work out. It's about an entire off-season plan that was completely bonkers. The team wasn't that good and it was foolhardy to push in so many chips especially when after all that there were still unaddressed holes like 2B.

[Sammy225]

I don't regret the Price or Tulo trades even for a second. Norris has yet to demonstrate that he's anything more than a replacement level starter, while Price was a substantial upgrade for our spot on the win curve and carried us to within a pube of the world series. The Tulo trade was just a plain heist.

 

My worries more or less come when Shapiro/Atkins are not able to keep everyone which financially will not happen at all because if Stroman has a good year he will be due to collect an extension, JD is not cheap. Tulo is not Cheap, and Martin is not Cheap. You can't do all this then add to the team.

 

So basically people are going to come out of the woodworks and s*** all over these guys for no fault of their own.

[Dick_Pole]

He could just say "I'm not going to comment on contract negotiations" or "Hopefully we can come to terms on a figure that works for both sides" but he's being honest instead. Oh well. Just so happens he's completely correct. The man has given us at least $70M in surplus value over the last 4 years alone, and that doesn't even factor in his legendary 2011 and 2012 campaigns while getting paid peanuts in arb. I would definitely feel insulted if I was getting nickel and dimed in his situation.

 

What I don't want to see is a Delgado type of situation. Or if it works out that way, at least have it happen in November, not February. I don't have any problem with Bautista getting paid market value nor the Jays' brass to do what they think will be the best to sustain long-term success. I'd just prefer everybody to maintain appearances at least until the Jays magical 2016 season is complete.

[Maahfaace]

No one really knows the trigger as to why Bats said what he said and in the tone he used.

Maybe his orignal demands were met with some type of counter offer (both term and dollars) that offended him so greatly he decided to speak out in the way that he did.

But then I'd be speculating just as much as some who decide to label his comments as "stubborn", "stupid", and "greedy" without knowing the catalyst for him being somewhat annoyed........... or maybe it was just the sight of Mike Wilner's face first thing in the morning that threw his mood off.

[Stangstag]

My worries more or less come when Shapiro/Atkins are not able to keep everyone which financially will not happen at all because if Stroman has a good year he will be due to collect an extension, JD is not cheap. Tulo is not Cheap, and Martin is not Cheap. You can't do all this then add to the team.

 

So basically people are going to come out of the woodworks and s*** all over these guys for no fault of their own.

 

 

As long as Rogers keeps Shapiro and lets him do his thing, I can deal with the idiot casuals.

[Dr. Dinger]

or maybe it was just the sight of Mike Wilner's face first thing in the morning that threw his mood off.

 

That's enough to turn anybody sour.

[canadiansportsjunkie]

Sounds like he forgot who have him the chance! Let him walk. He really shouldn't be in RF anymore or at least very soon. Can he play 1st? Who knows. He will end up as DH very soon.

[Dick_Pole]

Nobody cared about Yan Gomes because everyone was thinking about d'Arnaud which as outsider fans looking in, wasn't unreasonable. When Gomes was traded how were we to know that d'Arnaud would be gone weeks later too?

 

The Jays went from catcher depth of Arencibia, d'Arnaud, Gomes and Mathis which I think we all agree was pretty damn good to Arencibia and knuckleball specialist Thole in the span of less than two months, basically gifting the starting role of catcher to Arencibia for at least the next three years. Whatever you want to say about AA, that was f***ing stupid and the worst thing he did IMO, looking at it separately from the trades that took place to get to that position.

[HERPDERP]

Jose is talking to Rogers, I think.

 

Still need all sides to agree though.

 

Rogers has to agree to use the funds

 

Shapiro and Co have to agree that Bautista is worth the money

 

If we don't end up signing, expect either of the two to blame one another.

[gbill2004]

or maybe it was just the sight of Mike Wilner's face first thing in the morning that threw his mood off.

It was likely seeing Barry Davis for the first time in a few months that put him in a bad mood.

[RealAccountant]

As long as Rogers keeps Shapiro and lets him do his thing, I can deal with the idiot casuals.

 

Can you deal with a perennial loser that has a shot at a wild card

 

Cause that's what Shapiro is known for. Unless he has been the GM of teams that has gone unrecorded. Indians have no fans left and Shapiro is one of the primary reason. Destroyed the fan base

[Dr. Dinger]

Sounds like he forgot who have him the chance!

 

What does his loyalty to J.P. Ricciardi/Cito Gaston have to do with this current situation?

[Dick_Pole]

LOL you guys are so mean to our precious Blue Jays media representatives...

[gbill2004]

LOL you guys are so mean to our precious Blue Jays media representatives...

 

Does Barry Davis not put you in a bad mood?

[Dr. Dinger]

Does Barry Davis not put you in a bad mood?

 

Barry Davis puts me in a good mood. I love how he's the butt of everyone's jokes and constantly gets insulted directly by the players during interviews.

 

My two favourite Barry moments of 2015:

 

1) Encarnacion hits walk-off home run and trots right past Barry into the locker room despite Barry desperately trying to flag him down for an interview.

2) Barry asks Valencia where is 'sudden' power is coming from, and Valencia responds: "WELL Barry, it's called the Weight Room. I'll have show it to you some time."

 

Mike Wilner is just a bloated, smug piece of s*** who doesn't know a god damn thing about the baseball economy or how to properly evaluate talent.

[Dick_Pole]

Can you deal with a perennial loser that has a shot at a wild card

 

Cause that's what Shapiro is known for. Unless he has been the GM of teams that has gone unrecorded. Indians have no fans left and Shapiro is one of the primary reason. Destroyed the fan base

 

Cleveland destroyed Cleveland...or maybe Obama did...or Bush. Or maybe it's because LeBron is Cleveland's entire economy. The point is the fan base not being there has more to do with macro factors of a city in great decline since its baseball franchise started playing 115 years ago than the former regime leading the team to some .500 seasons in a mediocre division. The Blue Jays fan base will never be like the Indians' fan base.

[Dick_Pole]

Does Barry Davis not put you in a bad mood?

 

I'm a summer person. The rise of any activity that implies April is around the corner, led by the start of regular season for the Blue Jays and the increase in face time of the team's media people puts me in a good mood. Ask me again in August.

[Dr. Dinger]

Cleveland destroyed Cleveland...or maybe Obama did...or Bush. Or maybe it's because LeBron is Cleveland's entire economy. The point is the fan base not being there has more to do with macro factors of a city in great decline since its baseball franchise started playing 115 years ago than the former regime leading the team so some .500 seasons in a mediocre division. The Blue Jays fan base will never be like the Indians' fan base.

 

Bingo. Cleveland is a horrible, poor place. It has nothing to do with Shapiro and everything to do with their terrible, terrible poverty.

[gbill2004]

Barry Davis puts me in a good mood. I love how he's the butt of everyone's jokes and constantly gets insulted directly by the players during interviews.

 

My two favourite Barry moments of 2015:

 

1) Encarnacion hits walk-off home run and trots right past Barry into the locker room despite Barry desperately trying to flag him down for an interview.

2) Barry asks Valencia where is 'sudden' power is coming from, and Valencia responds: "WELL Barry, it's called the Weight Room. I'll have show it to you some time."

 

Mike Wilner is just a bloated, smug piece of s*** who doesn't know a god damn thing about the baseball economy or how to properly evaluate talent.

LOL!!!

 

Every time I see Barry Davis I want to break something over his face. But those are some funny Barry Davis stories!!

[Dr. Dinger]

LOL!!!

 

Every time I see Barry Davis I want to break something over his face. But those are some funny Barry Davis stories!!

 

I kinda respect Barry's hustle. Sure, he's a gross little midget with nothing to add, but... hmm, kinda lost my train of thought.

[Jimcanuck]

3 things:

 

EE and Bats both in a contract year, playing for a big payday is a good thing

 

Jays are in better position in the offseason to sign one of them as there is no loss of pick

 

Alford likely eclipses Bats as a player by 2019 (defense is a thing)

 

Conclusion: Sign EE next offseason

[Terminator]

It was tough talk from Bautista but he's right, Rogers can pony up the money for a guy like him. He's in the Stieb-Halladay-Delgado class of player that the Jays rarely get.

 

That said, Shapiro doesn't need to substantially overpay either so I wonder what Bautista's number was. If his number wasn't sacrificing years or money in exchange for the certainty of signing it now then it may be best to just let this year play out and try in the offseason.

[gbill2004]

i kinda respect barry's hustle. Sure, he's a gross little midget with nothing to add, but... Hmm, kinda lost my train of thought.

 

lmfao!!!