AA joins Dodgers as VP of Baseball Operations

[Laika]

We're more or less on the same page here, but put yourself in Alex's shoes. You've just achieved great success, you're the third best team in a league of 30 teams. You have the organization in the best position it's been in for more than 20 years. Then you lose all of your influence and get offered a significant demotion. You have plenty of money, so a job with a nice title and no real power has little appeal.

 

I sure as hell wouldn't stay and you're lying if you say you would.

 

You can live in a fantasy world and pretend that Shapiro was sincere, but he knew what the answer would be. I don't care if he's a nice person and and I'm not upset about the way he handled it, but use some common sense.

 

Common sense says that people don't make lengthy, multi-million dollar contract offers to people that they sincerely don't want to employ

 

You're a strange person. But, maybe you're right. I'm not so arrogant that I won't admit that.

[GD]

Thanks missed that. I knew he was staying as he's coming in to speak to my class (yes this could be entertaining)

 

ask if he's now a fangraphs dot com guy and video tape it

 

you literally have to

[Boxcar]

lol....i was being facetious. The magnitude of AA's most successful moves were equal to his mistakes. The haters like to dwell on the mistakes and ignore the Donaldson, wells trades. The team last year was historically good. There's only been 6 times in the past 115 years where team with the best run differential had 100 more runs than the team in 2nd place. The Bautista and EE signings were key to last year. Many of the haters hated the bautista signing when it was done. Those that preach to others that they are casual fans and do not know what they are talking about absolutely hated the bautista signing. I guess even the most knowledgeable baseball minds like the one's that post on bluejaysmessageboard are wrong from time to time. Why would AA make mistakes if these people make mistakes?..lol

 

He won the executive of the year award voted on by other baseball executives. Do a few haters on an internet board know more than the baseball executives in the game? I don't think so.

 

Is a team with the league MVP, Tulo, Martin, a dirt cheap front of the rotation arm in Stroman, pillar, goins, travis, Sanchez,Hutch, pompey, osuna, colabello going into 2017 going to be the phillies of this year. I don't think so. Is Tulo going to any way resemble Ryan Howard in 2017? Not bloody likely. Ditto for Martin. AA and his team drafted a ton of talent in his tenure and none of the guys in the farm are going to work out? Pentecost, Alford, reid foley, harris..etc....they are all going to be duds? I don't think so.

 

Haters like Glory...gonna hate.

 

2 mny h8rz brih

[Grant77]

Common sense says that people don't make lengthy, multi-million dollar contract offers to people that they sincerely don't want to employ

 

You're a strange person. But, maybe you're right. I'm not so arrogant that I won't admit that.

 

Executive moves in sports are always full of half truths and posturing. That has been proven again and again throughout history. I'm not naive enough to think that it didn't happen in this case simply because it is the Blue Jays or because I like Mark Shapiro. I'm open to all possibilities, but I'll continue to stick with the most sensible and logical line of thought until other evidence presents itself.

[glory]

lol....i was being facetious. The magnitude of AA's most successful moves were equal to his mistakes. The haters like to dwell on the mistakes and ignore the Donaldson, wells trades. The team last year was historically good. There's only been 6 times in the past 115 years where team with the best run differential had 100 more runs than the team in 2nd place. The Bautista and EE signings were key to last year. Many of the haters hated the bautista signing when it was done. Those that preach to others that they are casual fans and do not know what they are talking about absolutely hated the bautista signing. I guess even the most knowledgeable baseball minds like the one's that post on bluejaysmessageboard are wrong from time to time. Why would AA make mistakes if these people make mistakes?..lol

 

He won the executive of the year award voted on by other baseball executives. Do a few haters on an internet board know more than the baseball executives in the game? I don't think so.

 

Is a team with the league MVP, Tulo, Martin, a dirt cheap front of the rotation arm in Stroman, pillar, goins, travis, Sanchez,Hutch, pompey, osuna, colabello going into 2017 going to be the phillies of this year. I don't think so. Is Tulo going to any way resemble Ryan Howard in 2017? Not bloody likely. Ditto for Martin. AA and his team drafted a ton of talent in his tenure and none of the guys in the farm are going to work out? Pentecost, Alford, reid foley, harris..etc....they are all going to be duds? I don't think so.

 

Haters like Glory...gonna hate.

 

I be hatin', yo.

 

Players never age or decline. Teams never win with prospectz. Depth don't matter. Why develop prospects when you can burn options, start their service clock, and stunt their development at an early age? Cheers to short-term success! I miss AA already.

[burlingtonbandit]

Sounds like his job in LA would be the exact same as his job in Toronto would be. Instead of it being Shapiro and Lacava its going to be Friedman and Zaidi in terms of a process. Moving to LA fulltime isn't so bad. Neither is improving his analytical side of things and learning from some of the best in the business. Seems like a great career move.

 

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/prime-time-sports-anthopoulos-breaks-down-his-new-job-in-los-angeles/?row=0&row_id=1617493

[baloojayz]

IMO it's hard to "pretty much fire" someone whose contract of employment has expired.

 

Perhaps they made a decision to not offer him a contract, and the public expressions about a five year offer being rejected came from a mutual agreement by the parties, so that:

a) the organization would gain a public relations benefit from apparently having offered a popular executive a lengthy contract to stay, and

Anthopoulos would gain the within industry benefit of apparently making a powerful personal decision to refuse the offer (rather than the reality of having not been offered a deal).

 

I think that's hard to swallow. It takes a lot of assumptions. For one thing, I don't think Shapiro would care all that much about the PR benefit of a fake offer and rejection, because fans would still be mad that AA left and in any event fans tend to get over things like that pretty quickly (coaching / executive changes). Also, I think the "AA saving face" angle is a bit flawed because something like that would be pretty transparent within the industry. These people all talk, and all have webs of contacts within other organizations.

 

So that leads me to believe that they really did make an offer to AA that he rejected. And I suppose it is possible that they made an offer while hoping that he would reject it, but again, this seems unlikely to me. I doubt they would risk him accepting for significant money if they sincerely wanted him to leave.

 

IMO, Shapiro sincerely wanted AA to stay as the nominal GM. Shapiro sincerely offered him a contract. Both parties realized that it would be an arguable role reduction, and perhaps Shapiro also told AA about plans to bring in Ross Atkins in some sort of almost parallel role. I think AA chose to reject it for this reason (reduced autonomy) and/or relationship reasons (just flat out doesn't like Shapiro or Ed Rogers or whoever).

 

I think if we act like rational, reasonable, well-adjusted people, and follow the breadcrumbs of logic, this is where we end up.

 

Pretty much. From all I gather, it looks like they (Rogers) wanted Duquette to take over for Beeston. With all the BS they unexpectedly faced with Baltimore, they were pissed off and finally managed to set their sights on Shapiro. Being so blinded by their frustration with Duquette and their excitement landing Shapiro, they probably didn't realize getting Shapiro on board meant letting AA go. So they told Shapiro to offer AA a contract (if he was cool with it-he said yeah) expecting him to accept/negotiate, were surprised when he rejected, but at the same time didn't really care too much because Shapiro is their guy and they would do it even knowing AA's "preferences".

 

The whole reduced autonomy seems like BS given what he's doing now. Really sounds like AA put up with working under/with Beeston, and given the choice of whether to do it again for 5 years with Shapiro said no.

[glory]

Also we had nothing at 2B and he made Travis appear out of thin air. This is why I was never that concerned with "the future". Who the f*** knows who AA could have traded for to fill our holes. I don't know if his last year was just 100% luck or he became smart but he hit on pretty much every move.

 

Donaldson, Travis, Colabello, Estrada, Hendriks, Martin, Osuna in the pen. Trades Reyes and Hoffman for Tulo right before Reyes falls off a f***ing cliff professionally and personally lol.

 

He signed Martin and the clueless Toronto media started parroting the values of framing immediately afterwards so it's possible he wasn't the same imbecile he was the previous five years when he valued HR, ERA, and track teams. Still, there was enough wrong with what he did last season (starting the year with 6 rookies, trading more prospects for vets, ending the season with 3 starters in MLB and AAA combined, etc) that I'm glad he left before it got worse. He will forever be respected for getting Donaldson but I'll be damned if I retcon five years of mediocrity just because of the final two months of 2015.

[Stangstag]

He signed Martin and the clueless Toronto media started parroting the values of framing immediately afterwards so it's possible he wasn't the same imbecile he was the previous five years when he valued HR, ERA, and track teams. Still, there was enough wrong with what he did last season (starting the year with 6 rookies, trading more prospects for vets, ending the season with 3 starters in MLB and AAA combined, etc) that I'm glad he left before it got worse. He will forever be respected for getting Donaldson but I'll be damned if I retcon five years of mediocrity just because of the final two months of 2015.

 

Totally agree. He was supposed to build a sustainable winner, a team that would make the playoffs each year and have good talent always coming through the system.

 

It took him 5 years to get us to playoffs, and we don't have much talent left in the minors.

[fireballW]

lol....i was being facetious. The magnitude of AA's most successful moves were equal to his mistakes. The haters like to dwell on the mistakes and ignore the Donaldson, wells trades. The team last year was historically good. There's only been 6 times in the past 115 years where team with the best run differential had 100 more runs than the team in 2nd place. The Bautista and EE signings were key to last year. Many of the haters hated the bautista signing when it was done. Those that preach to others that they are casual fans and do not know what they are talking about absolutely hated the bautista signing. I guess even the most knowledgeable baseball minds like the one's that post on bluejaysmessageboard are wrong from time to time. Why would AA make mistakes if these people make mistakes?..lol

 

He won the executive of the year award voted on by other baseball executives. Do a few haters on an internet board know more than the baseball executives in the game? I don't think so.

 

Is a team with the league MVP, Tulo, Martin, a dirt cheap front of the rotation arm in Stroman, pillar, goins, travis, Sanchez,Hutch, pompey, osuna, colabello going into 2017 going to be the phillies of this year. I don't think so. Is Tulo going to any way resemble Ryan Howard in 2017? Not bloody likely. Ditto for Martin. AA and his team drafted a ton of talent in his tenure and none of the guys in the farm are going to work out? Pentecost, Alford, reid foley, harris..etc....they are all going to be duds? I don't think so.

 

Haters like Glory...gonna hate.

 

The team is massively improved since when he took over and the farm system is better than when he took over. The evidence we have suggests he knows how to build up a farm systems value as fast as anyone. Anybody shortchanging Alex has their head in the sand. Shapiro just does the same things as about 15 other organizations, just not quite as good.

[JaysFan75]

Totally agree. He was supposed to build a sustainable winner, a team that would make the playoffs each year and have good talent always coming through the system.

 

It took him 5 years to get us to playoffs, and we don't have much talent left in the minors.

 

I guess we'll have to see if the Shapiro is able to sustain success with what AA left them.

[RealAccountant]

I guess we'll have to see if the Shapiro is able to sustain success with what AA left them.

 

Seems to me is that you have already found a escape goat if Shapiro fails

 

Shapiro is left with twice as much value as Ash left AA. AA got the Jays to ALCS in six years lets see if Shapiro can do even that

[BTS]

Seems to me is that you have already found a escape goat if Shapiro fails

 

Shapiro is left with twice as much value as Ash left AA. AA got the Jays to ALCS in six years lets see if Shapiro can do even that

 

Ash left AA.

 

This guy doesn't watch baseball.

[Sammy225]

Seems to me is that you have already found a escape goat if Shapiro fails

 

Shapiro is left with twice as much value as Ash left AA. AA got the Jays to ALCS in six years lets see if Shapiro can do even that

 

Ash was not before AA you Twat

[glory]

Let's see if Shapiro can win with what Gillick left him before drawing any conclusions one way or the other.

[Ehjays]

Seems to me is that you have already found a escape goat if Shapiro fails

 

Shapiro is left with twice as much value as Ash left AA. AA got the Jays to ALCS in six years lets see if Shapiro can do even that

 

How could you forget about the Nose....Mr JP

[Terminator]

Seems to me is that you have already found a escape goat if Shapiro fails

 

Shapiro is left with twice as much value as Ash left AA. AA got the Jays to ALCS in six years lets see if Shapiro can do even that

 

[RealAccountant]

Boo hoo a poster made a mistake lets all attack him

 

I know it was JP I was a frequent caller on Wednesdays with JP if you guys have forgotten. I'm the one who wanted him to play Greg Zaun over Bengie Molina

[Krylian]

It's 'an' escape goat.

[JaysFan75]

Seems to me is that you have already found a escape goat if Shapiro fails

 

Shapiro is left with twice as much value as Ash left AA. AA got the Jays to ALCS in six years lets see if Shapiro can do even that

 

Actually, my point was that if Shapiro is able to sustain success for the next few years, then it stands to reason that AA didn't destroy the team after all.

[43211234]

2016 and people still replying to RealAccountant.

[Moo3]

Congrats to AA on the demotion in LA!

 

Friedman - Top guy

Zaidi - 2nd top guy

Byrnes - 3rd top guy

Anthopoulos - Lil' bitch

[Brownie19]

Congrats to AA on the demotion in LA!

 

Friedman - Top guy

Zaidi - 2nd top guy

Byrnes - 3rd top guy

Anthopoulos - Lil' bitch

 

Does it really matter if you're making as much $$$ and working in LA?

[Effit]

So much comic relief ITT.

[CJ-Freeway]

Damn.

[glory]

Well if you think the AAA rotation or starting the year with rookies can offset him acquiring the AL MVP or a 4 win 2B for free or the myriad other great moves he made this past year then I think you're just trying too hard to hate him (Also, Osuna, Sanchez, Hutchison, Greene all have a chance to be MLB starters).

 

If you want to convince me he's not a great GM the only thing you have to hold up is the Dickey trade. If you make that trade then obviously you're mentally handicapped to some degree.

 

But I still think overall he was good. He's been trading prospects for years but it hasn't caught up to us either because he can draft/sign more or pull home run trades out of his ass. I don't know if it was just luck or what but it definitely was not the safest way to build a contender and I can see why his philosophy would be met with hostility.

 

Personally, I also prefer the Shatkins approach but I can't ignore what AA put on the field at the end of his tenure. The WS was really Toronto vs. KC and could have gone either way.

 

The Donaldson trade was an outlier. He wasn't going to make those types of trades consistently, if ever again (Beane had one of the biggest brainfarts in recent memory). In that case, you have to look at the things he's more likely to do on a consistent basis, and that's where you evaluate his ability to develop talent, to give players the best chance to succeed, to factor in service time/options for the betterment of the team long-term, to acquire talent in general (does he look at WAR now, framing, defense, etc), and so on. Unless he had a trade lined up for Mike Trout or something (equivalent of Donaldson trade), he's not a guy I'd want to have around to build on 2015 and help them bridge to 2017-beyond in the best way possible. Shapiro/Atkins at least have the right mindset.

[flafson]

Congrats to AA on the demotion in LA!

 

Friedman - Top guy

Zaidi - 2nd top guy

Byrnes - 3rd top guy

Anthopoulos - Lil' bitch

 

AA spoke on Tim and Sid last night and it was pretty clear that he was fairly OK with not having the GM title as long as he had people that he would love to be around on a daily basis. That is why he declined Shapiro and that's why he chose LA.

Not sure if true or not but he said even if it was working with the same people in Tampa, he would be OK with that (tiny payroll).

[intentional wok]

2016 and people still replying to RealAccountant.

 

Hey, some of us still aren't comfortable using TurboTax on our own yet.

[Moo3]

Does it really matter if you're making as much $$$ and working in LA?

 

Yes

[Brownie19]

The Donaldson trade was an outlier. He wasn't going to make those types of trades consistently, if ever again (Beane had one of the biggest brainfarts in recent memory). In that case, you have to look at the things he's more likely to do on a consistent basis, and that's where you evaluate his ability to develop talent, to give players the best chance to succeed, to factor in service time/options for the betterment of the team long-term, to acquire talent in general (does he look at WAR now, framing, defense, etc), and so on. Unless he had a trade lined up for Mike Trout or something (equivalent of Donaldson trade), he's not a guy I'd want to have around to build on 2015 and help them bridge to 2017-beyond in the best way possible. Shapiro/Atkins at least have the right mindset.

 

What about the Vernon Wells deal?

What about getting Travis for Gose?

 

Even getting Marcum for Lawrie was a steal - even though Lawrie never did fulfill his potential (although he did help us get Donaldson).

 

He didn't get the reputation of being a ninja for nothing.

 

AA had his negatives, but he was good at drafting (and finding loop holes in the drafting system) and at making trades. Simple as that.