Revere to the Nats in 3...2...1

[Boxcar]

Its obviously not fair to call Sanchez an elite reliever right now. The results have been good, but the underlying numbers are not to that standard.

 

On the other hand, I don't think its fair to call him some sort of bust already. Reasonable people take FIP stats as the best way to evaluate how well a pitcher has actually performed. Its not really an interesting discussion anymore, its been shown to be true. I think the more interesting argument is which pitchers can outperform their FIP in the long term, and why that is. 100% not saying I believe Sanchez will do this, but its interesting to think about.

 

Do you own Sanchez

 

E: yup! And in a 20 teamer this time

[Grant77]

Its obviously not fair to call Sanchez an elite reliever right now. The results have been good, but the underlying numbers are not to that standard.

 

On the other hand, I don't think its fair to call him some sort of bust already. Reasonable people take FIP stats as the best way to evaluate how well a pitcher has actually performed. Its not really an interesting discussion anymore, its been shown to be true. I think the more interesting argument is which pitchers can outperform their FIP in the long term, and why that is. 100% not saying I believe Sanchez will do this, but its interesting to think about.

 

Early returns suggest that he can. It's no coincidence that one of the most extreme worm burners in the league succeeds with an elite infield D.

[Jonn]

I don't think he has to resign if he gets non tendered. Isn't that the whole point?

 

No he doesn't but I would rather take that risk over giving guaranteed money to a player who can't stay on the field. I doubt any major league team would offer him a major league contract at this point. And he has mentioned he wants to play for the Blue Jays so it makes sense.

[Boxcar]

No he doesn't but I would rather take that risk over giving guaranteed money to a player who can't stay on the field. I doubt any major league team would offer him a major league contract at this point. And he has mentioned he wants to play for the Blue Jays so it makes sense.

 

It was a joke because if he were to "resign" it would mean he quits.

[saskjayfan]

Its obviously not fair to call Sanchez an elite reliever right now. The results have been good, but the underlying numbers are not to that standard.

 

On the other hand, I don't think its fair to call him some sort of bust already. Reasonable people take FIP stats as the best way to evaluate how well a pitcher has actually performed. Its not really an interesting discussion anymore, its been shown to be true. I think the more interesting argument is which pitchers can outperform their FIP in the long term, and why that is. 100% not saying I believe Sanchez will do this, but its interesting to think about.

 

Fangraphs just wrote an article about Estrada being a FIP buster. Even those that preach the holy gospel acknowledge FIP isn't absolute. A guy with an amazing change up or a guy with high velocity and great movement might not best be judged against the average.

 

Some people don't believe there is any subjectivity on player evaluation. All there is for these people is the following:

 

step one go to fangraphs and check out WAR. Step 2, go back to step one if you're too f***ing stupid not to realize what step one was all about. Estrada's clearly sacrificing a bucket of KFC prior to the games he has pitched in. There's no other way to explain his luck.

 

As far as Sanchez and Osuna go, they are 2 young pitchers still developing and they could improve and their advanced statistics likely will look better if they do. It's not out of the realm of possibly for this to happen. Neither pitcher has thrown more than 130 innings in their big league career yet.

Edited January 10, 2016 by saskjayfan

[z3r0s]

Do you own Sanchez

 

E: yup! And in a 20 teamer this time

 

I withdraw my comment, I am surely wrong as I own this player in a fantasy league.

[z3r0s]

Do you own Sanchez

 

E: yup! And in a 20 teamer this time

 

btw, even if Sanchez does outperform his FIP in the long term (which I didn't assert), would that really help me much as an owner? His ERA would be ok, but he still doesn't strike people out and his OBPa will always be hurt by his walks and that fact he has guys putting the ball in play. The only reason he is a possible keeper is that he's an SP eligible RP who collects holds on a good team. If I had a stronger roster he wouldn't be a keeper at all.

 

But I must only be defending him (which I don't really think I was doing) because I own him and this he is awesome. My comment was more about trying to evaluate who might out perform their FIP.

[GD]

He did allow Swisher to make some starts out there the previous two years. Swisher wasn't as bad as Colabello in the OF (probably because of experience), but he wasn't exactly great either.

 

He didn't have money to add

 

Wow.

 

In all fairness I think Pompey out-WARz Revere in a full szn

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=rel&lg=all&qual=50&type=1&season=2015&month=0&season1=2014&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=12,a

 

lowkey rekt

 

Its obviously not fair to call Sanchez an elite reliever right now. The results have been good, but the underlying numbers are not to that standard.

 

On the other hand, I don't think its fair to call him some sort of bust already. Reasonable people take FIP stats as the best way to evaluate how well a pitcher has actually performed. Its not really an interesting discussion anymore, its been shown to be true. I think the more interesting argument is which pitchers can outperform their FIP in the long term, and why that is. 100% not saying I believe Sanchez will do this, but its interesting to think about.

 

SO PREDICTABLEEEEE

[Jimcanuck]

Mariano Rivera

 

1998, 29 Yrs old, 5.28 K/9, 2.49 BB/9

1999, 30 Yrs old, 6.78 K/9, 2.35 BB/9

2000, 31 Yrs old, 6.90 K/9, 2.97 BB/9

 

Aaron Sanchez (As Reliever)

 

2015, 22 Yrs old, 6.49 K/9, 2.39 BB/9

 

Not saying Sanchez is going to be Rivera, I'm saying its stupid to refer to his K/9 and BB/9 as a 22 yr old reliever and call him a bust, s***, or whatever (looking at you Boxy, spittin)

[GD]

Aaron Sanchez is a totally viable reliever who could be a really good back end guy one day and should never, ever start baseball games without Shapiro's crew working their KlubAsco magic on him

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

Also is not Shanchez working out with Stroman? Maybe something good happens with him or rubs off on him, maybe he learns a new pitch or 3 new grips, maybe he morphs into a pitcher! I mean stranger things have happened and will continue to happen like Some on here will have sex for the first time this year!

[Jimcanuck]

Also is not Shanchez working out with Stroman? Maybe something good happens with him or rubs off on him, maybe he learns a new pitch or 3 new grips, maybe he morphs into a pitcher! I mean stranger things have happened and will continue to happen like Some on here will have sex for the first time this year!

 

You referring to GD? I can't see it, he'll shoot his load before he even gets it close to pussy

[Spanky99]

Do you own Sanchez

 

E: yup! And in a 20 teamer this time

 

Hahahaha...

[GD]

You referring to GD? I can't see it, he'll shoot his load before he even gets it close to pussy

 

I guess he's right, I haven't technically had sex with BTS' mom yet this year

 

I'll reach 2015 levels soon enough though

[Boxcar]

Mariano Rivera

 

1998, 29 Yrs old, 5.28 K/9, 2.49 BB/9

1999, 30 Yrs old, 6.78 K/9, 2.35 BB/9

2000, 31 Yrs old, 6.90 K/9, 2.97 BB/9

 

Aaron Sanchez (As Reliever)

 

2015, 22 Yrs old, 6.49 K/9, 2.39 BB/9

 

Not saying Sanchez is going to be Rivera, I'm saying its stupid to refer to his K/9 and BB/9 as a 22 yr old reliever and call him a bust, s***, or whatever (looking at you Boxy, spittin)

 

Yeah I totally said that instead of merely opining that I'm indifferent towards hin

[Boxcar]

btw, even if Sanchez does outperform his FIP in the long term (which I didn't assert), would that really help me much as an owner? His ERA would be ok, but he still doesn't strike people out and his OBPa will always be hurt by his walks and that fact he has guys putting the ball in play. The only reason he is a possible keeper is that he's an SP eligible RP who collects holds on a good team. If I had a stronger roster he wouldn't be a keeper at all.

 

But I must only be defending him (which I don't really think I was doing) because I own him and this he is awesome. My comment was more about trying to evaluate who might out perform their FIP.

 

Well, I actually can't recall the last time you were on a player's jock and he wasn't on a team of yours...so there's that.

[Daniel Labude]

I like the Revere trade and depending on the return, trading Dickey is worthwhile. We could have a really great bullpen and a serviceable rotation...or a really good bullpen and a wild card starter in Sanchez or Osuna.

[z3r0s]

Well, I actually can't recall the last time you were on a player's jock and he wasn't on a team of yours...so there's that.

 

You got me, I only like players I own.

Are you f***ing kidding me. And how is what I said me being on his jock?

 

Apparently I've got on your bad side at some point (I imagine before the Pedro thing). Luckily I DGAF if we aren't internet friends.

[Brownie19]

No it isn't. That's the whole point of WAR, it adjusts for positional strengths.

 

Joe Blanton was better and projects to be better than Storen if you want that kind of counterargument.

 

Good. Let's sign him too

[BigCecil]

You realize Pompey, as bad as he has been, has a higher career OPS than Revere, right? And he's a better defender?

 

Storen for Revere is a solid move that just makes sense on all levels.

 

I'm ok with seeing if Pompey or Saunders can stick in LF. Using OPS to assess a contact and speed player like Revere isn't very helpful.

[BigCecil]

Most interesting thing about this thread to me is who would have imagined that most people on this board would be awknowledging Pillar as a lock OF starter in 2016 after a 4 WAR 2015. Times change. Haven't seen one comment he is a 4th OF ITT.

[spittin]

You got me, I only like players I own.

Are you f***ing kidding me. And how is what I said me being on his jock?

 

Apparently I've got on your bad side at some point (I imagine before the Pedro thing). Luckily I DGAF if we aren't internet friends.

http://a3.img.mobypicture.com/4799a6146aa44ff955b0829376549e9f_view.jpg#e%20thug%20478x477

[Stangstag]

Most interesting thing about this thread to me is who would have imagined that most people on this board would be awknowledging Pillar as a lock OF starter in 2016 after a 4 WAR 2015. Times change. Haven't seen one comment he is a 4th OF ITT.

 

Yeah. I don't think anybody here realized that he was an above-average defender in CF. Even if the defense declines, Pillar should be a lock to provide at least 2 WAR. That is an excellent compliment to the superstars we carry at other positions.

[Spanky99]

Well, I actually can't recall the last time you were on a player's jock and he wasn't on a team of yours...so there's that.

 

Ozuna...

[Spanky99]

You got me, I only like players I own.

Are you f***ing kidding me. And how is what I said me being on his jock?

 

Apparently I've got on your bad side at some point (I imagine before the Pedro thing). Luckily I DGAF if we aren't internet friends.

 

Hahahaha... popcorn.gif

[Spanky99]

not sure if people are overestimating Connor Greene or underestimating Marcell Ozuna.

 

http://www.bluejaysmessageboard.com/threads/4376-Around-Baseball-2015/page697

 

popcorn.gif... it seems to keep happening, lol.

 

Fight! Fight Fight!

[Swervin81]

Anyways, what do people think of Cliff Lee? If we do trade away Dickey to fill other areas of need, sniping Lee on an incentive-laden deal could be nice (big risk, big reward). Plus, Shapiro and Lee are pretty familiar with each other.

[crazy47larry]

I'd hate to break it to you: It doesn't matter how this board values any player......the board don't make the trades!

 

so ur saying the entire board itself is essentially pointless then? thats a real bummer man.

[THANOS]

Anyways, what do people think of Cliff Lee? If we do trade away Dickey to fill other areas of need, sniping Lee on an incentive-laden deal could be nice (big risk, big reward). Plus, Shapiro and Lee are pretty familiar with each other.

 

I'd love that.

[KingKat]

Anyways, what do people think of Cliff Lee? If we do trade away Dickey to fill other areas of need, sniping Lee on an incentive-laden deal could be nice (big risk, big reward). Plus, Shapiro and Lee are pretty familiar with each other.

 

Don't know how viable an option Cliff Lee is any more but you made me look up his career numbers and I'm grateful for that. What a stud.