Forum Top Prospects 1-10

[Spanky99]

Its only concerning if he wasn't in jays system.

 

The system's going to be overhauled by Shapiro and Atkins immediately.

[Grant77]

The system's going to be overhauled by Shapiro and Atkins immediately.

 

I don't think it will be. The lead amateur scouting guys like Tinnish and Parker are still here and they have had a long run of successful drafts. If Shapiro wasn't impressed with what they have done, they probably wouldn't still be here. I think the most major change is that we will keep most of our prospects instead of trading them.

[Krylian]

I don't think it will be. The lead amateur scouting guys like Tinnish and Parker are still here and they have had a long run of successful drafts. If Shapiro wasn't impressed with what they have done, they probably wouldn't still be here. I think the most major change is that we will keep most of our prospects instead of trading them.

 

I agree with keeping your prospects... But only if you're gonna go further into free agency to augment your roster. Otherwise, what else is there other than wait for years for them to develop... That's the decision that should've been made in 2013, before the Dickey and Florida deals.

[Atothe]

I don't think it will be. The lead amateur scouting guys like Tinnish and Parker are still here and they have had a long run of successful drafts. If Shapiro wasn't impressed with what they have done, they probably wouldn't still be here. I think the most major change is that we will keep most of our prospects instead of trading them.

 

I think the major change comes in the development process.

[Spanky99]

I don't think it will be. The lead amateur scouting guys like Tinnish and Parker are still here and they have had a long run of successful drafts. If Shapiro wasn't impressed with what they have done, they probably wouldn't still be here. I think the most major change is that we will keep most of our prospects instead of trading them.

 

Incorrect, both Atkins and Shapiro have said their first order of business is to hire a Head of Scouting Director and rehaul the teams development system. He said this during the winter meetings on the MLB Network, brah.

[Spanky99]

I think the major change comes in the development process.

 

Yes sir.

[Atothe]

What does rehaul the development system mean? Would the new director work above the team's existing scouting directors?

 

Changes to the amateur process will be more tangible but it's not like Cleveland's draft record had been better than Toronto's.

 

Probably new programs, new instructors, better facilities and a change in philosophy. I don't think they will be mass firings

[Spanky99]

What does rehaul the development system mean? Would the new director work above the team's existing scouting directors?

 

Changes to the amateur process will be more tangible but it's not like Cleveland's draft record had been better than Toronto's.

 

You'd have to ask Shapiro, mate? I'm in the same line of thought as Atothe, no mass firings or anything, Thanos has linked a tonne of information on Atkins doings in concerns of training and development in the GM thread. They've developed a lot of good ballplayers.

[BigCecil]

What does rehaul the development system mean? Would the new director work above the team's existing scouting directors?

 

Changes to the amateur process will be more tangible but it's not like Cleveland's draft record had been better than Toronto's.

 

Whatever it means, I hope it includes a move to AZ for spring training. The facilities are incredible.

[burlingtonbandit]

Whatever it means, I hope it includes a move to AZ for spring training. The facilities are incredible.

 

Why can't they build a great facility in Florida, like the Pirates one? Considering most of the fanbase is in Ontario it'd be a lot more difficult logistic wise for fans if it was in Arizona.

[King]

What does rehaul the development system mean? Would the new director work above the team's existing scouting directors?

 

Changes to the amateur process will be more tangible but it's not like Cleveland's draft record had been better than Toronto's.

 

Manuel said in his BA chat that players would be promoted a lot slower (ex. Osuna/Castro from A ball to the bullpen won't happen again, SRF to High A, Greene to AA, etc.), as well as changes in general philosophies, according to scouts and industry sources he has talked to.

[bendera3]

Manuel said in his BA chat that players would be promoted a lot slower (ex. Osuna/Castro from A ball to the bullpen won't happen again, SRF to High A, Greene to AA, etc.), as well as changes in general philosophies, according to scouts and industry sources he has talked to.

 

I think this will make the entire organization better. Both Osuna and Castro should not have been in the bullpen this year unless the team decided they were no longer going to be developed as starters. Even if you go the Cardinals route where their pitching prospects start out in the bullpen, they don't jump 2 or 3 levels.

[BigCecil]

Why can't they build a great facility in Florida, like the Pirates one? Considering most of the fanbase is in Ontario it'd be a lot more difficult logistic wise for fans if it was in Arizona.

 

Because I live in Calgary and i'm selfish Seriously though, there will probably be 15000 Jays fans at the Seattle games 2016. Lots of Jays fans in Western Canada. I still can't believe how into it so many families and kids got. They have been converted...I hope it lasts.

[L54]

Ya to say most of the fanbase is in Ontario isn't really that accurate.

[Frenchsoup]

I think this will make the entire organization better. Both Osuna and Castro should not have been in the bullpen this year unless the team decided they were no longer going to be developed as starters. Even if you go the Cardinals route where their pitching prospects start out in the bullpen, they don't jump 2 or 3 levels.

 

Osuna was worth 1.3 WAR or so. He was ready. If you challenge a person, you see what they really are.

[burlingtonbandit]

Ya to say most of the fanbase is in Ontario isn't really that accurate.

 

Well considering the population of Ontario is 2 million more than BC, Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba combined I'd say it is. There are more Jays fan per capita in Ontario than the western provinces.

[SAAviour]

As a west coaster I agree there are far more fans out East. It's very difficult to find fellow Jays fans. One change this year however is there are Jays hats everywhere you go now out here, tons of fair weather badwagoners have jumped aboard, but not the type to travel to Arizona to go to spring training.

[burlingtonbandit]

Wherever they go I'd have to think they would want to move in for 2018 which would mean they would have to come to an agreement by this summer at the latest.

[BigCecil]

As a west coaster I agree there are far more fans out East. It's very difficult to find fellow Jays fans. One change this year however is there are Jays hats everywhere you go now out here, tons of fair weather badwagoners have jumped aboard, but not the type to travel to Arizona to go to spring training.

 

I used to say that but after this run thats changed quite a bit. I've had many casuals ask me about ST games and locations etc. There's a hunger for ball that hasn't existed in too long. I take my son a lot of indoor ball stuff and see so many new kids into ball and talk to their parents who for the first time ask about ST and how to take their kids to jays games etc. Ont is still the epi center of course but I'd love to see Rogers capitalize on the window 2015 gave them to build on it.

[Jimcanuck]

I agree with keeping your prospects... But only if you're gonna go further into free agency to augment your roster. Otherwise, what else is there other than wait for years for them to develop... That's the decision that should've been made in 2013, before the Dickey and Florida deals.

 

Nothing wrong with having a bottom dweller for a few years when the end result is a team like the Cubs. The trick then is to sustain over a long term.

[Grant77]

Nothing wrong with having a bottom dweller for a few years when the end result is a team like the Cubs. The trick then is to sustain over a long term.

 

That isn't necessary at all. The Cubs had a s*****, expensive team, with no prospects. We have a substantial base of young talent to build off of and a top 3 team in the majors.

[Spanky99]

Wut?

[Dick_Pole]

Nothing wrong with having a bottom dweller for a few years when the end result is a team like the Cubs. The trick then is to sustain over a long term.

 

I strongly disagree. BS excuses from lousy front offices and fan bases lap it up. Washington sucked for how many years to stack its roster with #1 picks and still can't get much of anywhere. Meanwhile the Cardinals have had one losing season this century. Even if you look at a team like Houston, I still would not want the Jays to stink on purpose just for high picks. Given the choice of 3 years of 60-102 or 81-81, I will take 81-81 every time.

[Krylian]

And that's why the Dickey and Florida deals were made. Fans don't have the stomach for a couple of 60 win seasons while the farm system is reloaded... And then wait to develop.

 

For me, I'd take three 60 win seasons over three 80 win seasons any day. With a 60 win season, not only are you likely picking in the top 3, where you're going to land a premium talent, your cap will be significant, meaning you can be creative and add all sorts of wonderful talent in that draft (applies to IFA cap and talent too). That's a huge boost to your core talent.

What do you get out of being 81-81. You get to be a .500 team. You get to draft in the middle of the pack... You don't get a robust cap for either the draft or the IFA market. But you get to feel better about yourself cause you won some regular season games and still finished 12 games back.

[Dick_Pole]

And that's why the Dickey and Florida deals were made. Fans don't have the stomach for a couple of 60 win seasons while the farm system is reloaded... And then wait to develop.

 

For me, I'd take three 60 win seasons over three 80 win seasons any day. With a 60 win season, not only are you likely picking in the top 3, where you're going to land a premium talent, your cap will be significant, meaning you can be creative and add all sorts of wonderful talent in that draft (applies to IFA cap and talent too). That's a huge boost to your core talent.

What do you get out of being 81-81. You get to be a .500 team. You get to draft in the middle of the pack... You don't get a robust cap for either the draft or the IFA market. But you get to feel better about yourself cause you won some regular season games and still finished 12 games back.

 

Seemed to work well completely fine for St. Louis. Again, it's a defeatist attitude promoted by front offices who like pointing to convenient excuses (I'm thinking Ricciardi). This isn't the NBA or NHL where it somewhat makes sense to tank to try to get a generational talent.

 

How, oh, how did the Jays ever develop talent like Hentgen, Olerud, Delgado, Green and Gonzalez along with guys they traded like Hill, Whiten, Karsay and Kent when the lowest win total for the team between 1983-1993 was 86?

[Spanky99]

Seemed to work well completely fine for St. Louis. Again, it's a defeatist attitude promoted by front offices who like pointing to convenient excuses (I'm thinking Ricciardi). This isn't the NBA or NHL where it somewhat makes sense to tank to try to get a generational talent.

 

How, oh, how did the Jays ever develop talent like Hentgen, Olerud, Delgado, Green and Gonzalez along with guys they traded like Hill, Whiten, Karsay and Kent when the lowest win total for the team between 1983-1993 was 86?

 

Pat Gillick, baby!

[glory]

Dick Pole is correct.

 

You can consistently make the playoffs and build a strong farm system without sacrificing one for the other. It will take some creativity with this team since post-2016 looks a little shaky, but that should be the goal. It will involve dipping into free agency, but I see no reason why this regime won't do that if the money is there.

[TheHurl]

Tanking in baseball would be a horrible strategy IMO. Tanking, or even tearing it down would be horrible for the Jays right now too. Everything worked out pretty well for the Cubs but there is no assurance that anyone could replicate that again (honestly Epstein played fantasy GM and it worked out)

[Terminator]

Nothing wrong with having a bottom dweller for a few years when the end result is a team like the Cubs. The trick then is to sustain over a long term.

 

That's really hard to do. There are a lot of teams that lose for a long time and never get out of that rut.

[burlingtonbandit]

Tanking in baseball would be a horrible strategy IMO. Tanking, or even tearing it down would be horrible for the Jays right now too. Everything worked out pretty well for the Cubs but there is no assurance that anyone could replicate that again (honestly Epstein played fantasy GM and it worked out)

 

I think there is a lot more incentive to do it now than in the past with the bonus pool structure. Houston did a really good job of it as well and I think the Phillies are headed in the right direction. I don't think you ever intentionally want to be bad but there is much more incentive to trade a good/great player on a 70 win team. I agree that it would be stupid for the Blue Jays to do that right now. But for a team like the Orioles, Red or Rockies I think it makes sense.