Jays acquire Jesse Chavez

[Spanky99]

Why don't you get excited about the fact that would have an elite closer who AROD said could be the next Mariano Rivera

 

He wants to close. The teams wants him to close

Let him be. I don't know if he will be a good starter but I know if we are contending next year I don't want questions about the closer spot. Before Osuna we had so many fricking issues. Cecil was horrible in that spot

 

Sometimes I think people won't rest until they completely ruin a good thing. I am surprised there aren't appologizers on here wanting to trade Donaldson at his "peak value". People on here think they are such experts but I remember well these were the same people who wanted to trade Joey Bats after after his " fluke" 2010.

 

This is a good baseball team trying to win the world series in 2016. It doesn't need maybes. It needs players in places where they have succeeded before. Having Osuna as the closer means we don't have to worry about the ninth inning.

 

Move on. Find another starter.

 

http://www.google.ca/url?q=https://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DArSLNJNUEIM&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwi5xcuZjKXJAhUIPz4KHf9NAiUQuAIIIjACUAE&usg=AFQjCNF-ug0slEnUbXhEdykO5MknfSLn8w

[reedjohnsonfan]

Why don't you get excited about the fact that would have an elite closer who AROD said could be the next Mariano Rivera

 

He wants to close. The teams wants him to close

Let him be. I don't know if he will be a good starter but I know if we are contending next year I don't want questions about the closer spot. Before Osuna we had so many fricking issues. Cecil was horrible in that spot

 

Sometimes I think people won't rest until they completely ruin a good thing. I am surprised there aren't appologizers on here wanting to trade Donaldson at his "peak value". People on here think they are such experts but I remember well these were the same people who wanted to trade Joey Bats after after his " fluke" 2010.

 

This is a good baseball team trying to win the world series in 2016. It doesn't need maybes. It needs players in places where they have succeeded before. Having Osuna as the closer means we don't have to worry about the ninth inning.

 

Move on. Find another starter.

 

Agree. Look at Bard and Feliz as recent examples... obviously Osuna is younger and should be stretched as a starter at some point, but to hand him the keys to a rotation spot next year would be stupid IMO.

[GoJays]

I'm indifferent about the trade. Filled a huge hole but opened a smaller one . What I will state is this rotation is NOT going to win in the playoffs. Now I can see them getting lucky with a BP guy as it happens often enough but no way you get 2 starters to suddenly step up like Estrada did last year.

[Laika]

I'm indifferent about the trade. Filled a huge hole but opened a smaller one . What I will state is this rotation is NOT going to win in the playoffs. Now I can see them getting lucky with a BP guy as it happens often enough but no way you get 2 starters to suddenly step up like Estrada did last year.

 

Dude it's November. They have until the frigging 2016 trade deadline to find a TOR pitcher

[dineke]

I'm indifferent about the trade. Filled a huge hole but opened a smaller one . What I will state is this rotation is NOT going to win in the playoffs. Now I can see them getting lucky with a BP guy as it happens often enough but no way you get 2 starters to suddenly step up like Estrada did last year.

 

Stop worrying about what's going to happen in the playoffs. They just need to get in.

[Chappy]

This team is a contender. Worrying about what happens in October shouldn't be a major factor until July.

[burlingtonbandit]

Stop worrying about what's going to happen in the playoffs. They just need to get in.

 

At the same time I think he has a point about 3 playoff starts going to Chavez, Dickey and Estrada.

[dineke]

At the same time I think he has a point about 3 playoff starts going to Chavez, Dickey and Estrada.

 

Stop worrying about what's going to happen in the playoffs. They just need to get in.

 

CF.

[Chappy]

At the same time I think he has a point about 3 playoff starts going to Chavez, Dickey and Estrada.

 

Or they all get 0. It's way too early to think about that. Priority right now is acquiring assets to get this team into contention status (which they already are). The rotation can be evaluated and addressed throughout the season as necessary.

[BigRed]

At the same time I think he has a point about 3 playoff starts going to Chavez, Dickey and Estrada.

 

If you want to look simply at team ERA as a whole (2015 regular season), KC was ranked 10th at 3.73, Toronto 12th at 3.80 and Texas 23 at 4.24. It wasn't really the pitching that was the problem. As a whole KC and Toronto were almost identical on the mound.

 

Looking at the playoffs, a lot of guys just weren't hitting at all against KC. The games they lost, they scored 0, 3, 2 and 3 runs, and with that lineup that's really just not acceptable. The FIP for KCs starters for the games they won? 3.82 (Volquez), 3.57 (Ventura) and 4.52 (Young). It's not like the starters KC was throwing out there were all that great.

 

I'm not worried about Chavez, Dickey and especially Estrada getting playoff starts. Repeat last year's performance, go into the playoffs doing what they did for 162 games, and hope the offense shows up.

[Stangstag]

Why don't you get excited about the fact that would have an elite closer who AROD said could be the next Mariano Rivera

 

He wants to close. The teams wants him to close

Let him be. I don't know if he will be a good starter but I know if we are contending next year I don't want questions about the closer spot. Before Osuna we had so many fricking issues. Cecil was horrible in that spot

 

Sometimes I think people won't rest until they completely ruin a good thing. I am surprised there aren't appologizers on here wanting to trade Donaldson at his "peak value". People on here think they are such experts but I remember well these were the same people who wanted to trade Joey Bats after after his " fluke" 2010.

 

This is a good baseball team trying to win the world series in 2016. It doesn't need maybes. It needs players in places where they have succeeded before. Having Osuna as the closer means we don't have to worry about the ninth inning.

 

Move on. Find another starter.

 

Lol

[AdamGreenwood]

At the same time I think he has a point about 3 playoff starts going to Chavez, Dickey and Estrada.

 

Don't worry. If it's close, I have every confidence that the Jays will trade off multiple top prospects for the privilege of renting an ace for two months.

[GoJays]

Or they all get 0. It's way too early to think about that. Priority right now is acquiring assets to get this team into contention status (which they already are). The rotation can be evaluated and addressed throughout the season as necessary.

 

I agree that there is time to add more pitching IF they have the budget to do it. I just stated a fact that I believe this pitching staff as it sits won't get us very far.

 

I do not want to have to gut the minors again to add a whole bunch of pieces at the deadline . Lets face it there isn't much left. The Bull Pen needs at least 2 arms and we NEED a decent # 2 type starter. That is a lot to ask when we only have a projected 16.2 mil to spend.

[GoJays]

Don't worry. If it's close, I have every confidence that the Jays will trade off multiple top prospects for the privilege of renting an ace for two months.

 

They have MULTIPLE TOP prospects left ?

[Stangstag]

Don't worry. If it's close, I have every confidence that the Jays will trade off multiple top prospects for the privilege of renting an ace for two months.

 

I don't see that happening under Shapiro.

[burlingtonbandit]

If you want to look simply at team ERA as a whole (2015 regular season), KC was ranked 10th at 3.73, Toronto 12th at 3.80 and Texas 23 at 4.24. It wasn't really the pitching that was the problem. As a whole KC and Toronto were almost identical on the mound.

 

Looking at the playoffs, a lot of guys just weren't hitting at all against KC. The games they lost, they scored 0, 3, 2 and 3 runs, and with that lineup that's really just not acceptable. The FIP for KCs starters for the games they won? 3.82 (Volquez), 3.57 (Ventura) and 4.52 (Young). It's not like the starters KC was throwing out there were all that great.

 

I'm not worried about Chavez, Dickey and especially Estrada getting playoff starts. Repeat last year's performance, go into the playoffs doing what they did for 162 games, and hope the offense shows up.

 

Team ERA as a whole is pretty misleading though as there are a ton of factors that influence that including Park and Defense. Jays defense should be very good so they don't you are right in that they don't need the best SP. But like KC showed you need a great bullpen and the Jays just traded one of their best bullpen arms. Dickey will always worry fans no matter what with how unpredictable he is.

[Chappy]

Team ERA as a whole is pretty misleading though as there are a ton of factors that influence that including Park and Defense. Jays defense should be very good so they don't you are right in that they don't need the best SP. But like KC showed you need a great bullpen and the Jays just traded one of their best bullpen arms. Dickey will always worry fans no matter what with how unpredictable he is.

 

This lineup with a healthy Tulo likely wrecks more SP than not. A guy like Chavez as a #3 or 4 wins us more games than not.

[burlingtonbandit]

This lineup with a healthy Tulo likely wrecks more SP than not. A guy like Chavez as a #3 or 4 wins us more games than not.

 

Absolutely. But you could say the same with a lot of SP.

[Spanky99]

The offseason's over?

[The Cats Ass]

The offseason's over?

 

It seems so. And all the FA starters have been signed.

[Spanky99]

It seems so. And all the FA starters have been signed.

 

That suxxxx...

[RealAccountant]

Is it possible that Lacava and AA had differing view on Chavez when he was with the Jays?

[nextyear]

If you want to look simply at team ERA as a whole (2015 regular season), KC was ranked 10th at 3.73, Toronto 12th at 3.80 and Texas 23 at 4.24. It wasn't really the pitching that was the problem. As a whole KC and Toronto were almost identical on the mound.

 

Looking at the playoffs, a lot of guys just weren't hitting at all against KC. The games they lost, they scored 0, 3, 2 and 3 runs, and with that lineup that's really just not acceptable. The FIP for KCs starters for the games they won? 3.82 (Volquez), 3.57 (Ventura) and 4.52 (Young). It's not like the starters KC was throwing out there were all that great.

 

I'm not worried about Chavez, Dickey and especially Estrada getting playoff starts. Repeat last year's performance, go into the playoffs doing what they did for 162 games, and hope the offense shows up.

 

 

Can you provide a reference for the team ERA stat?

 

In terms of fewest runs allowed (RA), Kansas City was 3rd best:

Houston was 1st at 618 RA in 162 games, Cleveland was 2nd best at 640, and Kansas City was 3rd at 641 runs allowed. Toronto was 5th best out of 15 teams at 670 runs allowed - http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/standings/index.jsp#20151004

 

Minimizing runs allowed through good pitching and good defense (allowing few unearned runs) is very important for winning teams, this is what the stats over the past 22 years have indicated. The worst team to win an AL championship since 1993 was the 2013 Boston Red Sox who were 6th best in runs allowed (RA). But even the Boston Red Sox were close to the top 5 teams in limiting runs allowed.

[BigRed]

Can you provide a reference for the team ERA stat?

 

In terms of fewest runs allowed (RA), Kansas City was 3rd best: Houston was 1st at 618 RA in 162 games, Cleveland was 2nd best at 640, and Kansas City was 3rd at 641 runs allowed. Toronto was 5th best out of 15 teams at 670 runs allowed - http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/standings/index.jsp#20151004

 

Minimizing runs allowed through good pitching and good defense (allowing few unearned runs) is very important for winning teams, this is what the stats over the past 22 years have indicated. The worst team to win an AL championship since 1993 was the 2013 Boston Red Sox who were 6th best in runs allowed (RA). But even the Boston Red Sox were close to the top 5 teams in limiting runs allowed.

 

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/pitching

 

obviously as mentioned, no adjustment for park factors, unearned runs not counted, etc, but overall KC and Toronto's pitching was pretty close. That's all I was trying to say. The guys KC beat Toronto with were nothing overly special.

[nextyear]

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/pitching

 

obviously as mentioned, no adjustment for park factors, unearned runs not counted, etc, but overall KC and Toronto's pitching was pretty close. That's all I was trying to say. The guys KC beat Toronto with were nothing overly special.

 

Limiting runs allowed (RA) is partly pitching and partly team defense. Kansas City commits very few errors, which isn't included in ERA (it only includes earned runs).

 

Maybe the Kansas City pitching staff would look bad with the Oakland A's defense behind them, but the Kansas City Royals defense (including pitchers) were 3rd in runs allowed.

 

The link you provided was for NL and AL combined. It is best to just compare AL teams for which Kansas City was 3rd best in ERA - http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/pitching/league/al . Toronto was 5th best, same as the runs allowed stat indicates.

 

The NL has a lower ERA overall because pitchers hit instead of DH's.

[GreekFatAss]

Is it possible that Lacava and AA had differing view on Chavez when he was with the Jays?

Possibly, Chavez isn't 6'6" with command issues.

[glory]

Is it possible that Lacava and AA had differing view on Chavez when he was with the Jays?

 

AA was looking at dat ERA when he let Chavez go.

 

Sample size was never a glimmer in his eyes.

[Spanky99]

Limiting runs allowed (RA) is partly pitching and partly team defense. Kansas City commits very few errors, which isn't included in ERA (it only includes earned runs).

 

Maybe the Kansas City pitching staff would look bad with the Oakland A's defense behind them, but the Kansas City Royals defense (including pitchers) were 3rd in runs allowed.

 

The link you provided was for NL and AL combined. It is best to just compare AL teams for which Kansas City was 3rd best in ERA - http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/pitching/league/al . Toronto was 5th best, same as the runs allowed stat indicates.

 

The NL has a lower ERA overall because pitchers hit instead of DH's.

 

So, run prevention.

[93 Jays]

Jays need to find a setup man and put Sanchez back in the rotation where he belongs. I'm a firm believer in developing your young talent in order to get the best of them when they hit their prime. He's still a kid and I believe with the right coaching and his friendship with Stroman, that he can learn to repeat his delivery and cut down his walk ratio.

 

1. Stroman

2. Estrada

3. Sanchez

4. Dickey

5. Chavez

 

Seeing people willing to give up on a kid who is what? 22 years old? With a sinker and a better than average curve and velocity sitting well above 95? Just makes absolutely zero sense to me. My only problem with the entire thing is that they never spent the time teaching him to repeat his delivery in the minors last year where he belonged. Because if this kid learns command? He has as much of a ceiling as Stroman does. Giving up on a kid who is five years away from the prime of his career as some people are suggesting for peanuts is just completely asinine.

 

I'd also like to see Osuna in the rotation, only if he were to be stretched out to the point where he had more value in the rotation than that of his role as closer. Looking years down the road, I love seeing Stroman, Osuna and Sanchez as our top 3 in the rotation. Pay for an ace at that point and you're going to have a contending team for 5 years or more if management is smart enough to build a team around it that can play good defense and execute the fundamentals of the game. Last piece to that puzzle is to get yourself a manager who can effectively manage his bullpen.

 

This bullcrap of constantly trading your prospects is a roll of the dice that can easily end up with a Phillies debacle. We have most of the pieces we need right now, they just need to develop them properly so when they hit 25 or 26 years old, the ride at the top will last a very long time.

[John_Havok]

Limiting runs allowed (RA) is partly pitching and partly team defense. Kansas City commits very few errors, which isn't included in ERA (it only includes earned runs).

 

Park factors are also important. It's no real coincidence that the stadiums with the lowest run environment are the ones with the biggest dimensions and at sea level