John Gibbons Thread (+ Venting)

[Stangstag]

... They've scored 2 runs and this loss is on Gibbons?

 

I was joking lol. Just getting a head start on the idiots that will bombard this thread after the game.

[Deadpool]

I was joking lol. Just getting a head start on the idiots that will bombard this thread after the game.

 

Yeah, I didn't think you were one of those idiots, which is why I was a bit surprised...

[Nafro]

Tepera pitching, because he's pitched pretty well this year. I think some people enjoy it more when we lose, so they can bitch, than they do when we win.

[glory]

Holy s***! lol

 

if you were being even remotely serious (about Gibbons calling for the bunt) then it'd be wise to refrain from commenting on stuff where you're just embarrassing yourself.

 

no offence, bro

maybe you're new to baseball?

(I hope)

 

Dude, you have Gibbons in your avatar.

 

I can spew the virtues of batting average and wins/losses and still not come off as bad or biased as you.

 

The last three pitchers used in tonight's game were high leverage relievers a couple of months ago. You know, the same guys who used to pitch in the 7th and 8th inning of close games while you came rushing to the manager's defence when they blew it. Now they are mop up guys like they should have been used to begin with. Funny how that works.

[glory]

I was joking lol. Just getting a head start on the idiots that will bombard this thread after the game.

 

Hutchison was bad, and Gibbons rightfully used his worst relievers in the final innings to save his good ones.

 

Why would you expect negativity when he did nothing wrong?

 

People need to realize; not everyone who bashes Gibbons is doing it to vent or whatever. Maybe just maybe we disagree with the man's moves from time to time. He's pretty much the hick version of Cito Gaston, but yet everyone rags on Gaston while rushing to Gibby's defence. It's weird.

[Trekkie]

Wait... Hutch gives up 6 ER, offense only scores 2 runs, but somehow it's Gibbons fault... *Facepalm*

[Boxcar]

Hutchison was bad, and Gibbons rightfully used his worst relievers in the final innings to save his good ones.

 

Why would you expect negativity when he did nothing wrong?

 

People need to realize; not everyone who bashes Gibbons is doing it to vent or whatever. Maybe just maybe we disagree with the man's moves from time to time. He's pretty much the hick version of Cito Gaston, but yet everyone rags on Gaston while rushing to Gibby's defence. It's weird.

 

In Gibby's defense, he's definitely better than Cito.

[EMK19]

My line of thought today was that 4 runs to make up with 3 more innings coming up would have been pretty reasonable to expect our guys to have a good run at overcoming, and that we should have did our best to keep it at that 4 run margin for at least one/two more innings and see it from there. I personally would have used Hendriks for one more inning with Lowe/Hawkins waiting on deck there before electing to go to bottom end pen guys like Tepera/Schultz/Loup etc (especially since we had a day off yesterday, and with Price who will give you good amount of innings coming up tm). who I don't really trust as much, but I suppose Gibby has more confidence in those guys than I do.

 

I was also surprised we didn't give Pompey a shot of getting an at-bat in once the game was out of reach... it would have been a good time to ease him back in at the plate...

[IronLadle]

Hutchison was bad, and Gibbons rightfully used his worst relievers in the final innings to save his good ones.

 

Why would you expect negativity when he did nothing wrong?

 

People need to realize; not everyone who bashes Gibbons is doing it to vent or whatever. Maybe just maybe we disagree with the man's moves from time to time. He's pretty much the hick version of Cito Gaston, but yet everyone rags on Gaston while rushing to Gibby's defence. It's weird.

 

I don't understand the Cito hate either. When Cito took over for Gibbons in 2008, he posted a of 51-37 record where Gibby was 35-39 with the same team.

[intentional wok]

I don't understand the Cito hate either. When Cito took over for Gibbons in 2008, he posted a of 51-37 record where Gibby was 35-39 with the same team.

 

Sometimes teams don't hit a stride until mid-season though.

 

Look at this year. Granted, Price is now a Jay and so is Tulo (and others). But this doesn't account for the success everyone else is having, especially considering Tulo has scuffled on offense. We've seen a reborn Dickey and Hutch (minus last night), Josh and EE beasting, Goins becoming a more than adequate fill-in for Travis, etc.

 

Would the 08 squad have continued to suck with Gibby around? Who knows, but I don't think you can credit a guy for taking the same team, changing next to nothing, for being awesome. The Cito hire seemed like a PR move. It also so-happened that the very talented roster started playing well too.

 

Even then, Cito's pixie dust couldn't save that horrific 2009 year.

[Deadpool]

Hutchison was bad, and Gibbons rightfully used his worst relievers in the final innings to save his good ones.

 

Why would you expect negativity when he did nothing wrong?

 

People need to realize; not everyone who bashes Gibbons is doing it to vent or whatever. Maybe just maybe we disagree with the man's moves from time to time. He's pretty much the hick version of Cito Gaston, but yet everyone rags on Gaston while rushing to Gibby's defence. It's weird.

 

Because that's pretty much been your M.O. all season?

[RealAccountant]

Sometimes teams don't hit a stride until mid-season though.

 

Look at this year. Granted, Price is now a Jay and so is Tulo (and others). But this doesn't account for the success everyone else is having, especially considering Tulo has scuffled on offense. We've seen a reborn Dickey and Hutch (minus last night), Josh and EE beasting, Goins becoming a more than adequate fill-in for Travis, etc.

 

Would the 08 squad have continued to suck with Gibby around? Who knows, but I don't think you can credit a guy for taking the same team, changing next to nothing, for being awesome. The Cito hire seemed like a PR move. It also so-happened that the very talented roster started playing well too.

 

Even then, Cito's pixie dust couldn't save that horrific 2009 year.

 

BC Cito let his players play. Gibby kept fighting them.

[Deadpool]

BC Cito let his players play. Gibby kept fighting them.

 

Cito let his players play, as long as they weren't rookies with potential. Gotta make sure that Kevin Millar bats cleanup, and Travis Snider rides the pine! (Also, too, Shawn Green)

[jays_fever]

Cito let his players play, as long as they weren't rookies with potential. Gotta make sure that Kevin Millar bats cleanup, and Travis Snider rides the pine! (Also, too, Shawn Green)

 

Honestly, Cito was god awful. This talk about how he let his vets do their thing is absolute garbage. He was handed a superstar team and because he didnt have his players revolt in the clubhouse he's a "good player's manager".

 

A manager sacrificing runs over the course of a season so his older vets can get more playtime just because is one of the worst things you can do managing a ballclub.

:

[TBJESE]

Hutchison should never have been allowed to start the 6th in a close game. By now all managers and most laymen know about the times through the order penalty and that Hutchison is exceptionally vulnerable to it: he has a career opp. OPS of .914 the third time through the order. At that point, literally any reliever is a better option.

 

Hutch is an archetypal short-starter and he needs to be treated like that in close games with deep and fresh bullpens : max 18 batters and 60 pitches. Letting him go any deeper in a close game with a 10-man bullpen is just bad management.

[IronLadle]

Sometimes teams don't hit a stride until mid-season though.

 

Look at this year. Granted, Price is now a Jay and so is Tulo (and others). But this doesn't account for the success everyone else is having, especially considering Tulo has scuffled on offense. We've seen a reborn Dickey and Hutch (minus last night), Josh and EE beasting, Goins becoming a more than adequate fill-in for Travis, etc.

 

Would the 08 squad have continued to suck with Gibby around? Who knows, but I don't think you can credit a guy for taking the same team, changing next to nothing, for being awesome. The Cito hire seemed like a PR move. It also so-happened that the very talented roster started playing well too.

 

Even then, Cito's pixie dust couldn't save that horrific 2009 year.

 

Quit making excuses for Gibby.

 

Also 2009 they lost Burnett who won 18 games the season before and Marcum missed the entire year with Tommy John. Cito did however post a winning record in 2010, and that team was terrible.

[glory]

Because that's pretty much been your M.O. all season?

 

Except all my criticisms were valid. The garbage relievers used last night were pitching the 7th and 8th innings in high leverage spots two months ago. When I said Gibbons is not using his best talent, I was blasted as a hater. Funny how my main criticisms, mainly pen use, Navarro at DH, Mushroom in the outfield, and Smoak riding pine are no longer being done.....and the team is winning. What a f***ing shock. It's like if you play your best players, your chances improve. Crazy.

[IronLadle]

Except all my criticisms were valid. The garbage relievers used last night were pitching the 7th and 8th innings in high leverage spots two months ago. When I said Gibbons is not using his best talent, I was blasted as a hater. Funny how my main criticisms, mainly pen use, Navarro at DH, Mushroom in the outfield, and Smoak riding pine are no longer being done.....and the team is winning. What a f***ing shock. It's like if you play your best players, your chances improve. Crazy.

 

Smoak should be riding the pine, let's get real here

[spats]

Another win for Gibby- Manager of the year.

[intentional wok]

Quit making excuses for Gibby.

 

Also 2009 they lost Burnett who won 18 games the season before and Marcum missed the entire year with Tommy John. Cito did however post a winning record in 2010, and that team was terrible.

 

Ok so not having good players means the team can't win, regardless of manager? Thanks for making my point for me.

 

I can't believe people think that the guy with the desk job is the difference between a successful season and a terrible one. He writes up the line up card and then drinks Diet Coke until he has to make a pitching change. That's, like, 85% of the job.

[BigCecil]

BC Cito let his players play. Gibby kept fighting them.

 

Cito benched an 8 WAR Olerud to play Carter at 1B giving up value on both offense and D. Nothing more needs to be said about Cito. Thank God for WAMCO.

[RealAccountant]

Cito benched an 8 WAR Olerud to play Carter at 1B giving up value on both offense and D. Nothing more needs to be said about Cito. Thank God for WAMCO.

 

Jays won WS. Maybe if he didn't make that move they dont

[intentional wok]

Jays won WS. Maybe if he didn't make that move they dont

 

How much do you calculate Cito's crystal ball is worth?

[CrackerJack]

Josh Donaldson.

 

3rd inning, 2 runners on, 0 out.

 

Bunts the two runners over.

 

CrackerJack must have shed tears of joy at that display of managerial genius.

 

Maybe print this post and tape it to your fridge for future reference.

 

Gibbons will never ask Donaldson, Bautista or Edwin to bunt.

 

Ever.

 

If one of them squares around, he's doing it on his own to either try to draw the corners in or because he thinks he can capitalize on the huge element of surprise.

 

So no, bro, Gibbons wasn't telling his slugger (on his way to a MVP season) to lay one down early in the game with runners on the corners against Cody Anderson.

 

Hope this helps.

[CrackerJack]

Dude, you have Gibbons in your avatar.

 

I can spew the virtues of batting average and wins/losses and still not come off as bad or biased as you.

 

The last three pitchers used in tonight's game were high leverage relievers a couple of months ago. You know, the same guys who used to pitch in the 7th and 8th inning of close games while you came rushing to the manager's defence when they blew it. Now they are mop up guys like they should have been used to begin with. Funny how that works.

 

you're aware that the Jays didn't have Sanchez, Hawkins & Lowe in their pen a couple of months ago, right?

 

biased? ... when i've already clearly stated (in this thread) that I don't think Gibbons is a great manager?

 

the Gibby avatar is used in good fun to mock all of the whiny "it's the manager's fault!" "fire the manager!!!" meltdown clowns who firmly insisted that the Jays could NEVER win so long as Gibbons was the manager . . . sound familiar?

[TBJESE]

Why'd my reply get removed?

[BigCecil]

Cito benched an 8 WAR Olerud to play Carter at 1B giving up value on both offense and D. Nothing more needs to be said about Cito. Thank God for WAMCO.

 

Jays won WS. Maybe if he didn't make that move they dont

 

I think a large part of the Managers job is to ensure that the players who bring the best probability of winning are on the field as much as possible.

 

Yes we won the WS (twice) but I will never agree that you bench an 8 WAR player to bring in Joe Carter who was inferior on both D and O regardless of outcomes.

Edited September 6, 2015 by BigCecil

[intentional wok]

^ I agree. It's not a sound strategy at all. It's the definition of "winning despite your manager".

[BigCecil]

Gibby to me is like an old pair of slippers...comfy and get the job done keeping my feet warm.

 

Probably could/should get a new pair of those fancy sheepskin ones, but they cost a lot and I don't really need them.

 

Can get another good yr or two out of the old ones and it wont make too much difference one way or the other.

[intentional wok]

I like Gibby in general, though sometimes his bullpen use makes me want to pull my hair out (which is fine, because I shave my head).