Toritani signing?

[labadee]

And what if Jed Lowrie doesn't want to sign here? You seem to assume its as easy as just signing any player you want and reality doesn't quite work like that.

We also dont know for sure how much is left in the budget. If it is 20m or less like is being suggested by many in the media should we really blow half of that or more on lowrie when there are holes to fill in the starting lineup and bullpen.

 

But seriously continue to flip out and have a meltdown about just the possibility of a low risk signing...

 

welcome.

[Santos]

welcome.

 

@bluejayhotstove I remember in 2007 29yr old Akinori Iwamura signed with the Rays and was a complete unknown. Went on to be worth 5.5 WAR his 2 seasons there

 

If I recall correctly Aoki when he signed with the Brewers had very little fanfare and he turned out to be a solid big leaguer as well. The idea of singing this guy is definitely growing on me. He HAS to be better than Izturis and Goins and he probably can't be worse than Asdrubal Cabrera or Jed Lowrie was last year either.

[baloojayz]

This move even though minor confirms what some of us had felt that the Blue Jays are done with their big moves after the Saunders trade. The money that did not go to Melky is not going to sign anyone. Expect to see a few cover-up Izturis type players signed. I am not sold on Travis either, not even close to Pompey's level and he is a big IF.

We needed a 2B for how long now? Btw Izturis and this guy that's 7m that could have gone to Drew or Lowrie esp since it's evident we are not chasing any non-scrub level SP or RP.

[TwistedLogic]

[Stangstag]

This move even though minor confirms what some of us had felt that the Blue Jays are done with their big moves after the Saunders trade. The money that did not go to Melky is not going to sign anyone. Expect to see a few cover-up Izturis type players signed. I am not sold on Travis either, not even close to Pompey's level and he is a big IF.

We needed a 2B for how long now? Btw Izturis and this guy that's 7m that could have gone to Drew or Lowrie esp since it's evident we are not chasing any non-scrub level SP or RP.

 

You know this for a fact? I would cool down, AA still has some moves up his sleeve.

[BlueRocky]

Its not a terrible thing to have some money to spend mid season, knowing you can add a player in july and taking in a contract was a luxury he didn't have last year. As long as he can patch the remaining holes on the roster with something serviceable.

 

Im intrigued by the japanese guy, but i agree. If this is the final year of their 3 year window.. They trying to win now. Why experiment with unknowns when you have money to sign proven major league players?

Just gotta wait and see.

[baloojayz]

You know this for a fact? I would cool down, AA still has some moves up his sleeve.

 

Kinda. Major FA's are either gone or way out of our budget/ we have too much competition. We should be done for trades, all we have for prospects are scraps really, nothing we can really part with. Its not like we have a line-up of guys ready to step in from the minors, excluding Sanchez, Norris, and Pompey who are already needed on the team either this yr or next with Beurhle gone. No positional player depth...who do we trade????

Trading anyone for RP is a bad idea.

The time to sign/ trade for SP has come and gone. Mcarthy is also gone.

 

What do you think AA can have planned exactly? He's out of bullets. It doesn't matter how long there is left if there are no FA's worth signing, we don't have money, and we have no prospects to trade because they are already being rushed onto the team.

 

And I don't need to cool down because Im not worked up, just disappointed cuz you could definitely see this coming.

[Abomination]

@bluejayhotstove I remember in 2007 29yr old Akinori Iwamura signed with the Rays and was a complete unknown. Went on to be worth 5.5 WAR his 2 seasons there

 

If I recall correctly Aoki when he signed with the Brewers had very little fanfare and he turned out to be a solid big leaguer as well. The idea of singing this guy is definitely growing on me. He HAS to be better than Izturis and Goins and he probably can't be worse than Asdrubal Cabrera or Jed Lowrie was last year either.

 

Aoki is actually an interesting guy to compare Toritani to. There's a little under a year difference in age, and their overall Japan numbers over that time actually appear to be extremely similar, outside of the effects of Aoki's higher batting average. Now, more interestingly (and not very scientifically), the final year they both played in the Japanese League (2011 when the new balls came in), Aoki's Japan numbers were almost exactly what they've been the last two years here. Toritani suffered the same power drop Aoki (and everyone else in Japan) did, and similar the following year in the other categories. IF those numbers translate relatively well to what they would have done in the majors (and I admit that's a big if), he could be a better find that we realize.

 

If someone has a bit of free time, they can look a little deeper into that.

[Stangstag]

Kinda. Major FA's are either gone or way out of our budget/ we have too much competition. We should be done for trades, all we have for prospects are scraps really, nothing we can really part with. Its not like we have guys ready to step in from the minors, excluding Sanchez, Norris, and Pompey who are already needed on the team either this yr or next with Beurhle gone. No positional player depth...who do we trade????

Trading anyone for RP is a bad idea.

The time to sign/ trade for SP has come and gone. Mcarthy is also gone.

 

What do you think AA could have planned exactly? He's out of bullets. It doesn't matter how long there is left if there are no FA's worth signing, we don't have money, and we have no prospects to trade because they are already being rushed onto the team.

 

And I don't need to cool down because Im not worked up, just disappointed cuz you could definitely see this coming.

 

You clearly don't have a clue about our farm system, because we have several prospects we could still trade. Not that I would want to go that route, but it may be what AA is planning.

[baloojayz]

I think Lowrie is overrated. He's a pretty bad SS defensively and I'm not sure if he would be that much better at 2B. I think he is a decent player but for the term/$ he is going to get he might not be the best fit.

 

Everyone gets more than they are worth during FA.

[baloojayz]

You clearly don't have a clue about our farm system, because we have several prospects we could still trade. Not that I would want to go that route, but it may be what AA is planning.

 

How can you say that? I know our farm system better than most people that post on this board, maybe you included. Ofcourse we have several prospects we can trade, every team does. We don't have many that have value that we can afford to part with, infact I'd say none. Our #7-20 prospects are not going to bring us back big value unless a good portion of em are packaged together. Out of our top 7, Sanchez, Norris, Pompey, and Travis are needed on the team. Osuna, Castro, and Hoffman are next up for depth and can't really be traded.

 

Atleast you agree that we are still not there, I guess that's something.

[JaysAllMighty]

I'm all for signing Toritani if the other choice is not to sign anyone else. Give this foreigner a chance, you never know. And he's not a rookie, he has proven himself in Japan.

[baloojayz]

I'm all for signing Toritani if the other choice is not to sign anyone else. Give this foreigner a chance, you never know. And he's not a rookie, he has proven himself in Japan.

 

For sure, better than relying on Izturis/Goins/Travis. Wish we could do better since we are cutting into that money we had saved up, but atleast we are doing something.

[Caper]

How can you say that? I know our farm system better than most people that post on this board, maybe you included. Ofcourse we have several prospects we can trade, every team does.

 

Detroit doesn't.

[o2cui2i]

So just to be clear, you're saying that a 33 year old Japanese player who has apparently been playing for 11 years and had over 5500 at bats is a real "find" and that he trumps anyone else currently on the market, such as a Jed Lowrie? And who here had even heard of this guy until his name emerged in the last 48 hours? And yet we can't make any assumptions about what he might bring to the table over a proven major leaguer?

 

Wow. Just....wow.

 

just to be clear... MAYBE Lowrie doesn't want to come to TO? since you don't know all the facts, very little actually, you should do more reading and less bitching.

[Atothe]

How can you say that? I know our farm system better than most people that post on this board, maybe you included. Ofcourse we have several prospects we can trade, every team does. We don't have many that have value that we can afford to part with, infact I'd say none. Our #7-20 prospects are not going to bring us back big value unless a good portion of em are packaged together. Out of our top 7, Sanchez, Norris, Pompey, and Travis are needed on the team. Osuna, Castro, and Hoffman are next up for depth and can't really be traded.

 

Atleast you agree that we are still not there, I guess that's something.

 

If you know anything then you know Osuna and Hoffman are as talented as any pitcher in the bluejays system. Any team in baseball would gladly take them

[Ziggyy108]

Can he play SS when Reyes is out?

[Angrioter]

My source: GG caliber MIF with .260/.330/.380

 

I like it

[Olerud363]

I don't know who this tortilla guy is and I don't f***ing care. There are better options out there right now on the market and the money and contract length for them would not be obscence. $30m for 3 years for Lowrie and we are turning away? ********.

 

This is a weird post.

 

Sometimes I hate advanced stats because to the non-math inclined they look like magic. But look at it this way.

 

Kawasaki has been about a 1 win Player. Jed Lowrie is a 2 win player. Tortilla guy is better then Kawasaki. There is every chance he is comparable to Lowrie.

 

Kawasaki is not a complete disaster... just not quite good enough. If Tortilla is like Kawasaki but a bit better we are actually getting somewhere with this move.

[Jimcanuck]

Does this mean Goins is the 25th man and Izturis is out of the picture?

[baloojayz]

If you know anything then you know Osuna and Hoffman are as talented as any pitcher in the bluejays system. Any team in baseball would gladly take them

 

Lol I know that's what I said. I just feel we aren't in a position to trade them, not that they don't have value. After trading Norris and Graveman, trading Osuna and Hoffman would kill our farm. If this really is the last yr or so of this window, we are going to need the farm more than ever. Dickey and Beuhrle will be gone soon regardless, prospects are going to have to step up.

 

That's why imo we are not in a posn to trade.

 

When we can sign players without giving up anything why aren't we doing it? No one wants to come to Canada and the AL East? Plz Just from recent activity, you think Melky didn't want to come back?

[baloojayz]

My source: GG caliber MIF with .260/.330/.380

 

I like it

So Maicer Izturis with a better glove? As long as we get rid of Izturis this move ain't so bad.

[baloojayz]

On the bright side all we have to focus on now is pitching.

[Angrioter]

So Maicer Izturis with a better glove? As long as we get rid of Izturis this move ain't so bad.

 

The guy plays good defense in the SS and healthy, besides his OBP.

 

Play him at 2B, then, utility bench MIF. We all know Reyes will miss bunch of games.

[glory]

Wouldn't it be easier to just bring Kawasaki back? Is this guy significantly better than what we could expect from Muni? He will cost at least three times more.

[Angrioter]

Wouldn't it be easier to just bring Kawasaki back? Is this guy significantly better than what we could expect from Muni? He will cost at least three times more.

 

'cuz he's three time better.

[gruber92]

My source: GG caliber MIF with .260/.330/.380

 

I like it

 

Lol,based on what? He's a weak slap hitting all glove with a noodle arm infielder. He can't play short or third with much efficiency. He may draw a lot of pitches per AB, but that's it. Goins would produce a higher WAR in the same amount of playing time guaranteed, and we don't have to pay him $3.3mil per for three years. This would be a joke of a signing, as essentially he would clone Kawasaki. Actually, I think Kawasaki has a better arm from the video I had seen, but not a better glove.

[gruber92]

The guy plays good defense in the SS and healthy, besides his OBP.

 

Play him at 2B, then, utility bench MIF. We all know Reyes will miss bunch of games.

 

Just stop. He's not an MLB SS.

[Olerud363]

Just stop. He's not an MLB SS.

 

What the hell is wrong with you?? How do you know if he's a major league short stop.

[Olerud363]

Lol,based on what? He's a weak slap hitting all glove with a noodle arm infielder. He can't play short or third with much efficiency. He may draw a lot of pitches per AB, but that's it. Goins would produce a higher WAR in the same amount of playing time guaranteed, and we don't have to pay him $3.3mil per for three years. This would be a joke of a signing, as essentially he would clone Kawasaki. Actually, I think Kawasaki has a better arm from the video I had seen, but not a better glove.

 

Your talking out of your ass. From what I can see from the stats Toritani is similar to Kawasaki... but he is Kawasaki +. That means he walks a bit more, and hits for a bit more gap power. He's had a season with 20 homers... while Kawasaki never cracked 4.

 

And Kawasaki is almost good enough... Kawasaki can put up a .320 on base despite barely being able to get the ball out of the infield. Add a bit of pop to Kawasaki and you get an ok player.

 

Kawasaki hits .230 .320 .300 (approximately)

 

Toritani is a bit better

 

Toritani can be projected for .250 .340 .350 (approximately)

 

Ryan Goins can be projected for a .270 on base percentage. His defense (especially as a second basemen) can't make up for that.

 

On base percentage is important. If you get guys with a .330 on base percentage they are huge improvements on Goins. Goins is a negative WAR player. Even Kawasaki is better then Goins.