Jeff Blair - Signs from FO strongly suggest both Melky and Colby gone next year

[Frenchsoup]

He's not worth 14m

 

I'd rather play Pillar in LF in 2015 at LG MIN. You would get better defence, sacrifice some offence and put the 14m Melky would get toward something else.

 

You need pillar to platoon with gose atm. Plus he's good depth if you can get melky signed.

[saskjayfan]

He's not worth 14m

 

I'd rather play Pillar in LF in 2015 at LG MIN. You would get better defence, sacrifice some offence and put the 14m Melky would get toward something else.

 

melky's defense isn't that bad....sure pillar would provide better defense, but his bat doesn't even come close. Melky runs funny. I think people believe he is slower than he really is. I would offer him 3 for 30 and leverage the contract EE and bats are on and the fact that he likes playing here.

[Nox]

melky's defense isn't that bad.

 

What games are you watching?

 

What numbers are you looking at?

[GeorgiaPeach]

melky's defense isn't that bad....sure pillar would provide better defense, but his bat doesn't even come close. Melky runs funny. I think people believe he is slower than he really is. I would offer him 3 for 30 and leverage the contract EE and bats are on and the fact that he likes playing here.

 

2/20 or 3/10 I like the extra year(s) at lesser money than him accepting a 14m QO. And I'd prefer the intention be to move him during the deal. He's not someone I want here for the whole deal.

[Frenchsoup]

What games are you watching?

 

What numbers are you looking at?

 

There is really only one elite defender at LF in Gordon and Cespedes is pretty solid. The rest of the guys are pretty avg and that includes melky.

[Mikeleelop]

There is really only one elite defender at LF in Gordon and Cespedes is pretty solid. The rest of the guys are pretty avg and that includes melky.

 

if you look at defensive stats Melky is below average. Significantly

[reedjohnsonfan]

Has anyone seen the free agent list next year? Who the heck are the Jays going to replace Melky and Rasmus with? Aoki and overpay for Cruz? If they make a deadline trade, they won't have enough to acquire a guy in a trade. I for one do not want to see Pillar trotting out there everyday.

 

Also look forward to seeing Izturis being the everyday 2nd baseman again.

[Frenchsoup]

if you look at defensive stats Melky is below average. Significantly

 

i look at defensive metrics but like the eye test better.

[reedjohnsonfan]

i look at defensive metrics but like the eye test better.

 

It's left field. There's a long list of guys who were terrible defensively out there but stuck because of their bat, so who cares if his D isn't the best.

[Nox]

who cares if his D isn't the best.

 

Because a run saved is as valuable as a run produced offensively.

[GeorgiaPeach]

Has anyone seen the free agent list next year? Who the heck are the Jays going to replace Melky and Rasmus with? Aoki and overpay for Cruz? If they make a deadline trade, they won't have enough to acquire a guy in a trade. I for one do not want to see Pillar trotting out there everyday.

 

Also look forward to seeing Izturis being the everyday 2nd baseman again.

 

If they signed Aoki & Cruz, who plays CF?

 

And why would the Jays wanna unload and overpay huge on Cruz and his career year?

[GeorgiaPeach]

i look at defensive metrics but like the eye test better.

 

IMO the eye test is worse than the numbers.

[GeorgiaPeach]

It's left field. There's a long list of guys who were terrible defensively out there but stuck because of their bat, so who cares if his D isn't the best.

 

That's true.

 

But when the collective group of 25 was never good enough to contend, you can't keep trotting the same older and older teams out and expect to win.

[Mikeleelop]

IMO the eye test is worse than the numbers.

 

the eye test fails for LF and CF (rasmus) big time this year. RF is hit and miss, I don't like how JB tracks balls going backwards - but his throwing has been very strong this year.

 

This is the problem with a below average LF, you can't have below average CF beside and average RF on the other side. It kills pitching long term. Especially with guys like Burhle and Dickey throwing. They are fly ball pitchers

[glory]

Wow. The same ownership group that didn't allow a single MLB transaction other the swapping the expected arbitration raise of JPA and giving it to Dinner Navarro is now going to let two impending FA's go? Totally didn't see that coming. Next we will find out that the options for Santos, Morrow, and Happ won't be picked up

 

People here hate AA, and while I'm not a big fan of his, I hate Rogers co. more.

[Governator]

Because a run saved is as valuable as a run produced offensively.

 

Except he produces a lot more runs than he creates from his D...

 

 

Here's our past Left Fielders to compare Melky to: Travis Snider / Fred Lewis / Eric Thames / Adam Lind / Rajai Davis / Reed Johnson

 

Give him the Qualifying Offer... I don't want Pillar nor any of the depth options behind him for call ups. I'm sick of Blue Jays thin left field options of the past, we finally have a capable bat who is an everyday player and you want to get rid of him. Probably the same people who also want to have a $200MM payroll and then complain about giving him a QO... One less future hole to fill.

[Frenchsoup]

Melky looks like s***. Not saying that's indicative of his overall performance. He just simply does look like s*** out there. Some guys look fluid. Some look fast. Some look athletic. Some look like they get great jumps, great reads or make good adjustments. Melky just looks like a hunchback out there.

 

Not sure how the eye test is supposed to help him. I think the numbers make him look better than the eye test. And the numbers (and defensive numbers are basically for s*** anyway) say he is poo.

 

Rajai Davis looks fluid out there but catches the ball at his side every time and makes me s*** a brick. Not to mention overthrowing cutoff men and home plate some times.

[BigCecil]

Except he produces a lot more runs than he creates from his D...

 

 

Here's our past Left Fielders to compare Melky to: Travis Snider / Fred Lewis / Eric Thames / Adam Lind / Rajai Davis / Reed Johnson

 

Give him the Qualifying Offer... I don't want Pillar nor any of the depth options behind him for call ups. I'm sick of Blue Jays thin left field options of the past, we finally have a capable bat who is an everyday player and you want to get rid of him. Probably the same people who also want to have a $200MM payroll and then complain about giving him a QO... One less future hole to fill.

 

sub avg Defensive OF who has made some nice places but agree with Moogy that he just looks bad...a line drive switch hitter with extra base pop who doesn't BB a whole lot.

 

He has been all that's expected and asked this season but I don't like a long term signing...love Gov post on our LF ers past comparing them to Melky. I think we need to make QO for sure.

[Mikeleelop]

Wow. The same ownership group that didn't allow a single MLB transaction other the swapping the expected arbitration raise of JPA and giving it to Dinner Navarro is now going to let two impending FA's go? Totally didn't see that coming. Next we will find out that the options for Santos, Morrow, and Happ won't be picked up

 

People here hate AA, and while I'm not a big fan of his, I hate Rogers co. more.

 

yes Rogers is grinding out this team like a small market team. In reality the Bluejays have one of the biggest markets in MLB. They can hide or manipulate the value of the TV rights the team gets because they own the broadcast network. In effect they are sucking and blowing at the same time.....

 

Long term develop the farm! but get some short term help. we need some young position players who are stars. Bautista and EE can't do it alone, plus they are getting to the point in there careers where their production will decline and injuries will become more recurring

 

Come on Rogers, step up. We need something to keep us excited long term

[reedjohnsonfan]

If they signed Aoki & Cruz, who plays CF?

 

And why would the Jays wanna unload and overpay huge on Cruz and his career year?

 

I thought Aoki had more games under his belt at CF for some reason, but with Gomez that was a stupid assumption.

 

Wasn't suggesting they should get Aoki to play CF and overpay for Cruz though, just saying I'd prefer the Jays keep both Rasmus/Melky over those signings.

[BigCecil]

Rajai Davis looks fluid out there but catches the ball at his side every time and makes me s*** a brick. Not to mention overthrowing cutoff men and home plate some times.

 

Aside from his noodle arm Davis take horrible routes to balls negating his speed. He dribbles them in the OF when hit on the ground to him. Don't miss him in the OF for us.

[glory]

Are they grinding the team out? The Blue Jays $128.4M payroll is eighth in baseball. Rogers is doing their part.

 

Rogers has nothing to do with not developing the farm. All they do is write the cheques. It's a credit to ownership that they haven't (as far as we know) meddled in baseball operations.

 

Beeston talked about spending money when the time was right, yet the chose the season after a 73 win season to do it. I have to believe Rogers was behind the spending. Maybe not the players necessarily, but I think they wanted to create a buzz after the 2012 season fell flat.

[Mikeleelop]

Are they grinding the team out? The Blue Jays $128.4M payroll is eighth in baseball. Rogers is doing their part.

 

Rogers has nothing to do with not developing the farm. All they do is write the cheques. It's a credit to ownership that they haven't (as far as we know) meddled in baseball operations.

 

I consider it "grinding it out" when the team passes the hat around to sign a player in the preseason. AFter the trades, they should have been all in, instead they are half way in. very unsatisfying.

 

regarding the farm - they could dump more $$ in international signings like the Rays, Sox and Yankees have dun.

 

Anyway, I'd like to see a firm commitment and the message in 2014 is definitely not been there. not yet anyway

[Nox]

Except he produces a lot more runs than he creates from his D...

 

Uh, sure.

 

I just was pointing out the fact that saving runs on defense is an important thing. I wasn't even really talking about Melky specifically.

[Mikeleelop]

Why would you hate Rogers more? Did you mean Roger Moore? That I could understand. Connery all day, every day for Mr. Bond. Even Daniel Craig will do. But Moore? Sissy.

 

The Jays have adequate payroll. Take a look at the higher payroll teams ... Dodgers, Yanks, Phils, Sox, Tigers, Angels, Giants, Rangers, Nats, Jays, D'Backs, Reds, Cards, Braves, Orioles.

 

According to Deadspin, that's your top 15 2014 Opening Day payroll list.

 

Notice a common them there? Pretty much all of those teams are having success, or have had recent success. Now there's your exception here and there. The Phils had it, then just went bonkers and got old and expensive. The D'Backs are ... well, the D'Backs. Do you know what the Phils and D'Backs have in common? GMs that are widely regarded as cuckoo puffs.

 

And then there's the Jays. Higher payroll and no success. What do you think the problem is there? Ownership? or the GM?

 

obviously, the Jays are the only team on that list who have not been to the playoffs in the last 20 years. We don't know what restrictions Rogers has put on AA after the trades they approved. Either your are pregnant or you are not. To me the Jays are half pregnant right now. its an impossible position for a GM/team to be in

[Mikeleelop]

That's just your speculation though. It's hard to blame Rogers without factual evidence that they did pressure the front office to spend like crazy two offseasons ago.

 

From the way it's been presented to us, AA thought the team had a unique opportunity to improve rapidly and Beeston succeeded in getting Rogers' blessing. Not the other way around.

 

 

There's an international cap. You can't dump $$ into it every year and it would've dumb to go all in this year because most of the top prospects were already off the market due to the Yankees. The Blue Jays spend up to their cap, pay the non-crippling penalties and they trade for additional bonus slots. The international presence the team has is great.

 

They also ARE all in. $128.4M is a HUGE payroll. Rogers has committed more than they can be expected to.

 

they are not ALL IN, I disagree. not signing a pitcher in the off season proves that. they needed payroll concessions. 128mil is a reasonable payroll, not HUGE based on our market size.

[Mikeleelop]

Rogers hasn't been the owner for the past twenty years. Any restrictions they've put on AA are more than fair considering the payroll. It's not up to Rogers to just spend and spend and spend until the team makes the playoffs.

 

What kind of payroll commitment do you think Rogers should give the front office? Throw a number out.

 

to be all in based on the offseason needs that were identified by everyone and not acted upon I think we needed to go to $150mill.

 

needed 14mil for starting pitcher

needed 6 mill for starting 2B

needed 2 mill for adequate backups, not AAA fillers we now see throughout the lineup

[Mikeleelop]

$128M is huge considering the market size. It's not up to Rogers to make sure there's enough money in the budget to afford a pitcher. Again, all they do is write the cheques and they must have told the front office that ~$130M was the team's budget for 2014. Using your parameters you can literally blame Rogers for anything bad that ever happens to the team, and that's not fair.

 

do you agree that Toronto has a market equal to or larger than New York or LA? They have the market of Canada. The Jays tv viewers are significantly higher than both those markets

 

I don't blame rogers or AA right now, I don't know who is to blame because we don't know what actually happened this year. I just hate that we are 4 games out and we don't know if we can take on any payroll to pick up a player or two now.

 

i still believe Rogers has not been held to the fire for their. its my opinion that they are not all in on this season based on the preseason actions

 

when the Jays won the world series they sold out every game and had the highest payroll in the majors. it allowed gillick to get the studs to finish the job. right now we don't know what AA is allowed to do

[KingKat]

To me the Jays are half pregnant right now. its an impossible position for a GM/team to be in

 

And who do you blame for being in this position? The team or the GM?

 

The fact is the GM asked for money from ownership and got it and the proceeded to waste it (and a lot of prospect capital) on the players obtained after the 2012 season. And yes you could argue that it was a half-pregnant approach but if AA didn't have the means at his disposal to go all in and still decided to ask for a payroll increase so he could go half-way because he a. overestimated the quality of his team and the depths of its holes or b. recoginzed the flaws in his team but decided to gamble anyways, who do you blame for that?

[KingKat]

So Rogers should just keep giving the front office money until they respond "we have enough to win?"

 

Hey, it's not your money, right?