Report: Ervin Santana to hold everyone by their testicles for a few days!

[S33n]

Santana was at least as bad in 2012. You're buying his 2014, not 2013.

 

At 1/16 Santana represents a $5-10 million increase in investment compared to JJ if you factor the pick in. That's bad business.

 

 

For me there is difference in signing a player coming off a good year, and a player coming off an absolutely putrid campaign. I hear you on the 2nd round pick, but I'd prefer to have Santana over Johnson at this point, if we're talking strictly baseball.

[Stangstag]

Thank god, but what I'm saying is people are still harping on and on about him. He was horrible, why anybody would want him on 14M is beyond me. If the difference between signing Ervin or not signing him is so miniscule we shouldn't be worried/talking about it, then Johnson' name shouldn't be brought up 100x a day either.

 

Because he had a couple of ace-quality seasons before 2013? Thats why. If you only look at his BASIC 2013 stats when evaluating him, you are an ass hat. Even so, if you are dead set on only looking at ERA and winz, then look at his past seasons.

[torontofan]

He does great interviews!

 

[Stangstag]

I just think that our rotation needs the stability/insurance that Santana brings. If Morrow goes down, we are f***ed.

[S33n]

Ervin Santana was f***ing horrible 2 years ago. And a lot more horrible than the JJ horrible.

 

ERA G GS GF CG SHO SV IP H R ER HR BB IBB SO HBP BK WP BF ERA+ WHIP

 

6.20 16 16 0 0 0 0 81.1 105 64 56 15 30 3 83 3 0 4 384 66 1.660

 

5.16 30 30 0 1 1 0 178.0 165 109 102 39 61 2 133 9 0 4 764 74 1.270

 

They're both bad years but to say Ervin was worse than Josh last year is a stretch.

[Convo]

He does great interviews!

 

 

Who gets nose bleeds that isn't a taking some kind of illegal drugs?

[S33n]

Because he had a couple of ace-quality seasons before 2013? Thats why. If you only look at his BASIC 2013 stats when evaluating him, you are an ass hat. Even so, if you are dead set on only looking at ERA and winz, then look at his past seasons.

 

 

I'm fully aware of Josh Johnson' history. He was one of my favorite pitchers while with the Marlins, but I doubt we will ever see him pitching to that form again. If he comes out and dominates this year I will gladly swallow my pride and admit I was wrong.

[8D]

ERA G GS GF CG SHO SV IP H R ER HR BB IBB SO HBP BK WP BF ERA+ WHIP

 

6.20 16 16 0 0 0 0 81.1 105 64 56 15 30 3 83 3 0 4 384 66 1.660

 

5.16 30 30 0 1 1 0 178.0 165 109 102 39 61 2 133 9 0 4 764 74 1.270

 

They're both bad years but to say Ervin was worse than Josh last year is a stretch.

 

Santana had a NEGATIVE 1 WAR.

Meanwhile JJ had a POSITIVE 0.5 WAR during their worst seasons. All within the past two seasons, btw.

 

EDIT: Meaning Santana would probably have helped his team two fold had he not even pitched during that season.

[TheHurl]

I think basing decisions like this almost exclusively on the previous season's results is a bad way to go about things. Santana was available last year at 1/12 for nothing but a commitment to pay his salary. Why did AA prefer to trade for Buehrle and Johnson at the time? What about Santana changed in 2013 that has put him on the FO's radar when he clearly wasn't there a year ago? What changed in their opinion of Johnson? Was it 60 innings of hard luck?

 

This team tends to buy the previous season's results rather than make reasonable projections of future performance. It's a great way to buy high and sell low, which is exactly what they've made a habit of doing.

 

Perception...and he's an idiot. For the record I like neither pitcher

[S33n]

Do you contribute everything about Johnson' year to bad luck? It's not like he was pitching lights out and balls were just squeezing their way into holes every game. He was being hit hard, he gave up 15 home runs in 16 starts, most of which he didn't last very long.He averaged 5 IP per start and had a WHIP of over 1.6.

 

I dunno, I wouldn't feel "confident" in him if he was still with the club, but maybe that's just me.

[Dick_Pole]

He does great interviews!

 

 

New Jays slogan for 2014:

 

f*** it, let's pitch.

[S33n]

Perception...and he's an idiot. For the record I like neither pitcher

 

Ok, buddy. Saying I'd rather have a pitcher coming off a good year, than a pitcher coming off a terrible one who has major health concerns makes me an idiot? Good point.

[Chappy]

AA has brought this entire board to despair. Well done AA.

[S33n]

I won't lose my s*** if we don't sign Santana. But I will if they decide to sit on that 14M when Drew is still available.

 

 

I won't lose my s*** either, but he's better than signing nobody at this point. Our rotation could use a bit more stability, and 200IP arms.

[ElNik2013]

Ok, buddy. Saying I'd rather have a pitcher coming off a good year, than a pitcher coming off a terrible one who has major health concerns makes me an idiot? Good point.

 

 

 

LOL, I think he was referring to AA.

[ElNik2013]

AA has brought this entire board to despair. Well done AA.

 

 

 

Not me, I'm looking forward to the minor league season as well as the AAA rotation and when a couple of them get called up. I also look forward to the tear down, AA is supposed to be good at that.

[8D]

Ok, buddy. Saying I'd rather have a pitcher coming off a good year, than a pitcher coming off a terrible one who has major health concerns makes me an idiot? Good point.

 

I think thehurl referring to AA in that post. He was replying to BTS' comments about AA.

 

While you do have a valid point, most of us here believe it's not worth it given Santana's more spotty track record and how the Jays now have to surrender a 2nd round pick valued around $5-10Mn, and then tack on the incentives if Jays sign him.

All of this could have been avoided had AA offerred JJ a QO. At the very least saves us on incentives, saves a 2nd round pick and if JJ signed elsewhere, Jays would have had a 1st rounder. That's the issues a lot of us have here.

But you have absolutely every right o prefer a certain pitcher over another.

[Chappy]

Not me, I'm looking forward to the minor league season as well as the AAA rotation and when a couple of them get called up. I also look forward to the tear down, AA is supposed to be good at that.

 

I'm intrigued to see Hutch in the rotation, I am a big fan. That being said added depth is a good thing. Let the kids ease into the rotation and phase them in. If it's a one year deal, it makes a lot of sense.

[S33n]

I think people are missing the point on Johnson. Yes he had a horrible season but that's not the only reason they didn't bring him back. Hes rarely healthy. And the Blue Jays didn't feel he was worth the risk at 1-year 14M. I honestly don't blame them for that. He has the potential to be great but his durability is an extreme question mark. With Santana your getting someone who is going to give you 200 innings and solid 3 or 4 starter. It's whatever you prefer to pay for. The gamble that Johnson will stay healthy and recapture his All-Star form. Or Ervin Santana where for the most part you know what you're going to get.

 

 

Johnson when healthy is the better pitcher. Nobody can argue that.

 

 

That is well put, and I agree completely. Apologies to TheHurl if his idiot comment wasn't directed towards me.

[8D]

I think people are missing the point on Johnson. Yes he had a horrible season but that's not the only reason they didn't bring him back. Hes rarely healthy. And the Blue Jays didn't feel he was worth the risk at 1-year 14M. I honestly don't blame them for that. He has the potential to be great but his durability is an extreme question mark. With Santana your getting someone who is going to give you 200 innings and solid 3 or 4 starter. It's whatever you prefer to pay for. The gamble that Johnson will stay healthy and recapture his All-Star form. Or Ervin Santana where for the most part you know what you're going to get.

 

Johnson when healthy is the better pitcher. Nobody can argue that.

 

While JJ is an injury risk, I really don't trust Santana's elbow. I'm surprised with the amount of times it's been injured he hasn't had TJS yet.

Maybe this year. He's w/ the Jays afterall...

[ElNik2013]

I'm intrigued to see Hutch in the rotation, I am a big fan. That being said added depth is a good thing. Let the kids ease into the rotation and phase them in. If it's a one year deal, it makes a lot of sense.

 

 

 

Yup, that's why I want Hutchison and Stroman to get more AAA innings. I think that's an added benefit for signing Santana for a year, but I wouldn't go above 14M.

 

 

Nolin is another guy I will continue to follow.

[S33n]

For the record, I was a huge fan of having Johnson last season. As I stated he was one of my favorite pitchers in the MLB during his time with the Marlins, I felt he never got the recognition he deserved (ala Halladay). But, after what we witnessed last season, combined with his recent health issues over the last few seasons, it would feel irresponsible to put any kind of stock into him performing like his old self. If he was slotted as our number 2 pitcher heading into the season I would definitely be looking towards plans B and C before the season started.

 

With Ervin Santana, I wouldn't be expecting anything close to Johnson in his prime, but I would be able to confidently pencil him in as our #3 or #4 SP every day.

 

Maybe I just regurgitated what Jonn just said, but that's my 2 cents.

[eastcoastjaysfan]

40 minutes left...

[flafson]

 

[GD]

That's interesting, to say the least. 32 minutes.

[eastcoastjaysfan]

We're probably going to have comparable records. Taxes would be a bit lower it Baltimore... but come on. Baltimore is barely a step up from Detroit in terms of quality of life. Toronto is bumping during the summer. Easy choice.

[GD]

We're probably going to have comparable records. Taxes would be a bit lower it Baltimore... but come on. Baltimore is barely a step up from Detroit in terms of quality of life. Toronto is bumping during the summer. Easy choice.

 

I think Toronto is a better team but Baltimore /looks/ better. So call that a wash and it's quality of life vs money. It'll be interesting. If we have made an offer, eh, I'll live with it if he signs elsewhere.

[ElNik2013]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, it seems they have the same agent, but will not play for the same team.

[eastcoastjaysfan]

Orioles and Jays fan chirping at each other on twitter. I might actually hate Oriole fans more than Red Sox fans now.

[ElNik2013]

We're probably going to have comparable records. Taxes would be a bit lower it Baltimore... but come on. Baltimore is barely a step up from Detroit in terms of quality of life. Toronto is bumping during the summer. Easy choice.

 

 

 

Who knows how these guys think. You would think 14M guaranteed would be better than 13M plus incentives, depending on what types of incentives of course, but who knows.