Jays have tried to get Ian Kinsler and Brett Anderson this off season

[KingKat]

Any chance he did it on purpose to screw JPR since he was with the A's? Just reaching here. If Sabean was serious about that trade, I don't see why he would leak it. Who knows.

 

Sabean's a dry humper. He's described in exactly those terms in Moneyball.

[JJippidy]

I'm left wondering, how the do they go from looking into Kinsler to running with Goins?

 

If true this gives a big boost of credibility to the Drew angle.

 

Of course AA could have simply been looking at the upgrade non-positionally and just in terms of wins added, if such thought is possible with this front office.

 

If that's the case though then not doing anything from now til the season starts would even be more puzzling.

 

So they're going to do something right?

 

Fingers crossed on it not being stupid.

[The Nemesis]

I'm left wondering, how the do they go from looking into Kinsler to running with Goins?

 

If true this gives a big boost of credibility to the Drew angle.

 

Of course AA could have simply been looking at the upgrade non-positionally and just in terms of wins added, if such thought is possible with this front office.

 

If that's the case though then not doing anything from now til the season starts would even be more puzzling.

 

So they're going to do something right?

 

Fingers crossed on it not being stupid.

 

Going with Goins (dur hur hur....) may not be the ideal plan B, but it just might be the only realistic plan C if you consider the pursuit of Drew as the real fallback in this situation. Because if the team strikes out on Drew and already struck out on Kinsler, then what? Not sure I'm comfortable with the idea of trying to pry someone like Kendrick from the Angels or another tradeable 2B out there when the rest of the league knows that the Jays tried and failed twice on an upgrade and might be getting desperate. Or in some situations (Barney) I wouldn't want to pay a trade price when really Goins isn't that bad of a backup-backup plan to have. Even if he can barely hit at replacement level, if he provides awesome defence up the middle that will be enough to help keep run totals down and let the rest of the offence do its thing. Because I think a healthy 1-8 in the Jays lineup should be good enough to carry the team along if they can avoid a repeat of 2013's pitching meltdown.

[GD]

Burnett, Jimenez, Santana, Arroyo....Yoon?....and?

 

Burnett, Jimenez, Santana, Masterson, Shark, Bailey, probably some others I'm too delirious to remember. I don't just mean in FA. Attainable period.

[Lawrie22]

If Tex was able to get Fielder for Kinsler but had a deal worked out with toronto first that fell apart only because of Kinsler's NTC, than it really makes you wonder and a bit scared to guess what AA was offering Tex.

[Abomination]

If Tex was able to get Fielder for Kinsler but had a deal worked out with toronto first that fell apart only because of Kinsler's NTC, than it really makes you wonder and a bit scared to guess what AA was offering Tex.

 

I think you're forgetting just how horrible Fielder's contract is.

[JJippidy]

Going with Goins (dur hur hur....) may not be the ideal plan B, but it just might be the only realistic plan C if you consider the pursuit of Drew as the real fallback in this situation.

 

I agree, on the terms that we can label Goins as plan E or below, because I can't imagine him being the 3rd best option available at the start of the off-season, nor can I imagine second base as not being a position the Jays should have looked hard at upgrading.

[Grant77]

Going with Goins (dur hur hur....) may not be the ideal plan B, but it just might be the only realistic plan C if you consider the pursuit of Drew as the real fallback in this situation. Because if the team strikes out on Drew and already struck out on Kinsler, then what? Not sure I'm comfortable with the idea of trying to pry someone like Kendrick from the Angels or another tradeable 2B out there when the rest of the league knows that the Jays tried and failed twice on an upgrade and might be getting desperate. Or in some situations (Barney) I wouldn't want to pay a trade price when really Goins isn't that bad of a backup-backup plan to have. Even if he can barely hit at replacement level, if he provides awesome defence up the middle that will be enough to help keep run totals down and let the rest of the offence do its thing. Because I think a healthy 1-8 in the Jays lineup should be good enough to carry the team along if they can avoid a repeat of 2013's pitching meltdown.

 

I have a hard time figuring out how a Janssen/Santos for Ackley framework doesn't make a ridiculous amount of sense for both sides.

[The Nemesis]

I agree, on the terms that we can label Goins as plan E or below, because I can't imagine him being the 3rd best option available at the start of the off-season, nor can I imagine second base as not being a position the Jays should have looked hard at upgrading.

 

3rd best option in terms of talent? No. Absolutely not. But 3rd best option in terms of talent and cost and ease of acquisition and all that stuff? maybe. If Drew goes back to Boston or basically anywhere that's not Toronto, it's going to get hard for AA to deal with other GMs without them figuring they can just bend the Jays' front office over and extort whatever price they want in exchange for a 2B.

[Abomination]

I have a hard time figuring out how a Janssen/Santos for Ackley framework doesn't make a ridiculous amount of sense for both sides.

 

Seattle has a number of players that are expendable for them and would be good fits for us. I'd imagine a guy like Happ would make a certain amount of sense for them too, especially in Safeco and considering two rookies in their rotation might be pushing it. They may be scared to deal with the Jays though after the last few trades we made with them

[JJippidy]

3rd best option in terms of talent? No. Absolutely not. But 3rd best option in terms of talent and cost and ease of acquisition and all that stuff? maybe. If Drew goes back to Boston or basically anywhere that's not Toronto, it's going to get hard for AA to deal with other GMs without them figuring they can just bend the Jays' front office over and extort whatever price they want in exchange for a 2B.

 

Now, sure. The timeline I'm looking at though is day 1 after the season ends, second base should have been on the radar right after the rotation and C.

 

If AA was looking at investing that much resources into Kinsler while still needing to address the rotation then sticking with Goins is a little odd no?

[The Nemesis]

Now, sure. The timeline I'm looking at though is day 1 after the season ends, second base should have been on the radar right after the rotation and C.

 

If AA was looking at investing that much resources into Kinsler while still needing to address the rotation then sticking with Goins is a little odd no?

 

hard to say without knowing what the Blue Jays side of that proposed trade was. Maybe Texas was willing to practically give him away at that point. Or maybe this just about fell into Toronto's lap and they would've taken Buehrle's contract back if the Jays ate some value. Too many variables in play to really pin down how serious/important management was treating this possibility.

[JJippidy]

Ya, I guess I can sum it up by saying I don't view Goins very highly.

[flafson]

Ya, I guess I can sum it up by saying I don't view Goins very highly.

 

I really hope he proves everyone wrong.

[The Nemesis]

Goins comes down entirely to whether or not he can hit at a replacement level. If he can just not suck like JP with the bat and not get himself out, his defence is good enough that he can be stashed in the 9 hole and let the rest of the lineup can cover for him. A healthy and performing-up-to-snuff Reyes, Melky, Bautista, Encarnacion, Rasmus, Lawrie, Lind, and even Navarro should be able to put up enough runs to overcome 1 offensive non-factor with a great glove.

[Anemic0ffense]

This worries me. The fact that they came out with this, and conveniently right before the "State Of The Franchise". Now when they end up with nothing, they can use the excuse "Oh, but we tried!". Hope I'm wrong, but with this team, ughhh... I'll just leave it at that.

[Abomination]

I really hope he proves everyone wrong.

 

There ARE a handful of people here who think he just might, just not the majority.

[The Nemesis]

As opposed to 2 with no glove or bat last year (Boni, JP)

 

pretty much

[KingKat]

I have a hard time figuring out how a Janssen/Santos for Ackley framework doesn't make a ridiculous amount of sense for both sides.

 

Because they want to see if the bat he briefly flashed at the end of last year is real and they have an OF spot for him.

[Nabru]

This worries me. The fact that they came out with this, and conveniently right before the "State Of The Franchise". Now when they end up with nothing, they can use the excuse "Oh, but we tried!". Hope I'm wrong, but with this team, ughhh... I'll just leave it at that.

 

I get this feeling too. Though a part of me would be shocked if Toronto doesn't land at least 1 of the remaining pitchers who have been talked about ad nauseum, it's hard not to be cynical regarding this organization. Put me in the group who'd be happy if Toronto landed 1 of Jimenez/Santana/Burnett and Drew for 2B. That would at least be something and would give hope for 2014.

[Dick_Pole]

I get this feeling too. Though a part of me would be shocked if Toronto doesn't land at least 1 of the remaining pitchers who have been talked about ad nauseum, it's hard not to be cynical regarding this organization. Put me in the group who'd be happy if Toronto landed 1 of Jimenez/Santana/Burnett and Drew for 2B. That would at least be something and would give hope for 2014.

 

I agree. What gave it away for me was this:

 

"Anderson, dealt in December by the Oakland Athletics to Colorado Rockies for pitcher Drew Pomeranz and prospect Chris Jensen, nearly ended up with the Blue Jays in exchange for Sergio Santos. But those talks fell apart due to concern over Anderson’s injury risk."

 

So wait a minute...you're scared to give up the guy who has had 30 IP over the past two years for the guy who had 80 IP over the past two years because of the OTHER guy's injury risk? Whatever. $4M salary difference then either one could be bought out following the 2014 season so it's not like there were huge salary considerations. If you're that scared about Anderson why pursue him in the first place or even mention this at all? Oh yeah to try to save face.

[Grant77]

Because they want to see if the bat he briefly flashed at the end of last year is real and they have an OF spot for him.

 

He was so, so bad in the outfield last year, it's hard to believe they would try that experiment again. He has below average speed, instincts, and arm. The Mariners are just an incredibly stupid organization.

[Grant77]

I agree. What gave it away for me was this:

 

"Anderson, dealt in December by the Oakland Athletics to Colorado Rockies for pitcher Drew Pomeranz and prospect Chris Jensen, nearly ended up with the Blue Jays in exchange for Sergio Santos. But those talks fell apart due to concern over Anderson’s injury risk."

 

So wait a minute...you're scared to give up the guy who has had 30 IP over the past two years for the guy who had 80 IP over the past two years because of the OTHER guy's injury risk? Whatever. $4M salary difference then either one could be bought out following the 2014 season so it's not like there were huge salary considerations. If you're that scared about Anderson why pursue him in the first place or even mention this at all? Oh yeah to try to save face.

 

They presumably gathered more medical data as a trade became a realistic possibility.

[Abomination]

Off the top of my head, they've given significant OF innings to Ackley, Morse, Ibanez, Bay, and Thames in the last couple years. I don't even want to know what they do to evaluate defense.

 

And they compounded it even more this offseason

[FireAlexAnthopoulos]

This worries me. The fact that they came out with this, and conveniently right before the "State Of The Franchise". Now when they end up with nothing, they can use the excuse "Oh, but we tried!". Hope I'm wrong, but with this team, ughhh... I'll just leave it at that.

I agree. I think the front office is reaching for whatever exaggerated BS they can come up with in a vain attempt to placate the fanbase when they stand pat this offseason.

[G-Snarls]

Thread title sucks

 

Interesting though, I do wish it went through, wonder what the deal would have been?

 

Really though. Who's our Prince Fielder??? (Being serious, don't know who to equate him to. Edwin is better than him and not an apparent PITA like he is)

[G-Snarls]

Being discussed on FAN 590 now

[KingKat]

Being discussed on FAN 590 now

 

Well it's pretty inane right now so I'm guessing I missed it. Did they say anything?

[Olerud363]

He was so, so bad in the outfield last year, it's hard to believe they would try that experiment again. He has below average speed, instincts, and arm. The Mariners are just an incredibly stupid organization.

 

If he can handle second he should be able to handle left. It's incredibly stupid to put this kind of limitation on a player.

 

IF he can hit enough for left then a smart organization would work with him. A stupid organization, an arrogant organization would say "he has below average speed instincts and arm" and put limitations on him.

 

The big issue is his bat. But if the bat plays (which I'm not convinced it will) then a smart organization does the opposite of what you suggest.

[G-Snarls]

I'm left wondering, how the do they go from looking into Kinsler to running with Goins?

 

If true this gives a big boost of credibility to the Drew angle.

 

Of course AA could have simply been looking at the upgrade non-positionally and just in terms of wins added, if such thought is possible with this front office.

 

If that's the case though then not doing anything from now til the season starts would even be more puzzling.

 

So they're going to do something right?

 

Fingers crossed on it not being stupid.

 

As always, if we find out about this, there were 3-4 other options AA probably considered

 

He actually IS trying to upgrade the starting rotation, and second base, and DH platoon

 

He has obviously just decided that he won't overpay via trade this year

 

If he is going to overpay a bit anywhere I hopes it's for Jiminez. He *should* be able to trade for a legit 2B at reasonable cost.