Jays, Phillies swap Lincoln for C Erik Kratz and LHP Rob Rasmussen

[Angrioter]

Kratz is actually kind of intriguing. Career 83 wRC+ with Steamer projecting him at 95. Matt Carruth has him as a plus framer, and he seems to be at least an average fielder. This could pay big dividends.

 

As a catcher, he's a decent hitter

[Terminator]

Kratz is actually kind of intriguing. Career 83 wRC+ with Steamer projecting him at 95. Matt Carruth has him as a plus framer, and he seems to be at least an average fielder. This could pay big dividends.

 

On the whole, I like what we've done at C. Replaced JPA and Thole with Navarro and Kratz without really moving the needle budget wise. Should make for a nifty little improvement, even if a lot of that improvement is in the form of addition by subtraction.

[ElNik2013]

Hopefully one of Navarro/Kratz can catch Dickey thus creating some competition for Thole. Another reason I disliked the Dickey deal was the whole designated catcher situation. The team even signed Henry Blanco mainly because Dickey told AA he was the best at catching him, it's just not something I like.

[The_DH]

As a catcher, he's a decent hitter

 

I remember him a little from some spring games. I think he was invited a couple of times. Solid build, good defense.

[Chappy]

This actually looks like a pretty good move by AA.

[G-Snarls]

he's got about 10 more (at least healthy ones) than last season. Having as many catchers as OF's makes zero sense to me.

 

Last year having all those guys perpetually on 60 day DL helped with the roster. Got none now. Which is mostly good.

[Chappy]

On the whole, I like what we've done at C. Replaced JPA and Thole with Navarro and Kratz without really moving the needle budget wise. Should make for a nifty little improvement, even if a lot of that improvement is in the form of addition by subtraction.

 

It really seems like AA did his homework. Steamer has Navarro at 1.7 WAR and Kratz at 0.9 WAR for 2014. Not sure if they both combine for that type of impact, but overall, I really like what AA did here. It's the sum of these types of moves that could end up really paying off.

 

If the Rays made these two moves, many here would be giving more credit to the FO. With essentially no change in payroll, AA has improved this team and set himself up nicely to make a bigger splash having already addressed the most pressing need.

[Anemic0ffense]

Hopefully one of Navarro/Kratz can catch Dickey thus creating some competition for Thole. Another reason I disliked the Dickey deal was the whole designated catcher situation. The team even signed Henry Blanco mainly because Dickey told AA he was the best at catching him, it's just not something I like.

 

Agree... I do think Thole is a bit better than what he showed last year, but it sucks not being to send him down even if he blows... Hopefully Kratz comes in here motivated to work with Dickey, and becomes his catcher

[G-Snarls]

It really seems like AA did his homework. Steamer has Navarro at 1.7 WAR and Kratz at 0.9 WAR for 2014. Not sure if they both combine for that type of impact, but overall, I really like what AA did here. It's the sum of these types of moves that could end up really paying off.

 

If the Rays made these two moves, many here would be giving more credit to the FO. With essentially no change in payroll, AA has improved this team and set himself up nicely to make a bigger splash having already addressed the most pressing need.

 

Exactly. Smart management here helps the roster (both of these guys have options and are on league minimum salary) and leaves $ to upgrade the rotation.

[Anemic0ffense]

It really seems like AA did his homework. Steamer has Navarro at 1.7 WAR and Kratz at 0.9 WAR for 2014. Not sure if they both combine for that type of impact, but overall, I really like what AA did here. It's the sum of these types of moves that could end up really paying off.

 

If the Rays made these two moves, many here would be giving more credit to the FO. With essentially no change in payroll, AA has improved this team and set himself up nicely to make a bigger splash having already addressed the most pressing need.

 

There's still part of me that believes that somewhere inside AA, there's a very good GM, and that he was being forced by the higher ups to spend money egregiously last year... Hopefully this is just the start of bigger/better moves

[Chappy]

There's still part of me that believes that somewhere inside AA, there's a very good GM, and that he was being forced by the higher ups to spend money egregiously last year... Hopefully this is just the start of bigger/better moves

 

It's the cool thing to s*** on AA these days, but he has done a lot of good things that so many seem to forget. I like to consider all possible angles, and I do believe that part of the disastrous offseason last winter was in part due to the higher ups and AA made some foolish moves with his first taste of significant payroll. I have been more neutral on him since then and I have stated previously that this will be his defining season.

[ElNik2013]

It really seems like AA did his homework. Steamer has Navarro at 1.7 WAR and Kratz at 0.9 WAR for 2014. Not sure if they both combine for that type of impact, but overall, I really like what AA did here. It's the sum of these types of moves that could end up really paying off.

 

If the Rays made these two moves, many here would be giving more credit to the FO. With essentially no change in payroll, AA has improved this team and set himself up nicely to make a bigger splash having already addressed the most pressing need.

 

 

Hard to disagree with you. The only thing I'd say is that one of them still has to learn to catch Dickey in ST.

[Chappy]

Navarro feels very much like the opposite of something the Rays would do. Actually it is the opposite. AA is trusting the starting C spot to a career 0.9 WAR/150 game catcher after a career season while the Rays went out and got a career 2.6 WAR/150 game catcher after a down season. I'm not a big fan of Navarro at all. Not as the only legit starting option.

 

Fair enough, but he added Navarro giving nothing up other than JP's salary. I am not saying this was the best way to address the catching position, but it still appears to be an overall improvement with pretty much no cost, other than Lincoln who was insignificant considering the relief options we have.

[Chappy]

Hard to disagree with you. The only thing I'd say is that one of them still has to learn to catch Dickey in ST.

 

Realistically, I see Thole breaking camp as the backup and Kratz in AAA as insurance which we will likely need at some point anyways.

[The_DH]

There's still part of me that believes that somewhere inside AA, there's a very good GM, and that he was being forced by the higher ups to spend money egregiously last year... Hopefully this is just the start of bigger/better moves

I would hope he would have kept the farm and went free agent if this was true.

[Anemic0ffense]

I would hope he would have kept the farm and went free agent if this was true.

 

Good point

[TwistedLogic]

Navarro feels very much like the opposite of something the Rays would do. Actually it is the opposite. AA is trusting the starting C spot to a career 0.9 WAR/150 game catcher after a career season while the Rays went out and got a career 2.6 WAR/150 game catcher after a down season. I'm not a big fan of Navarro at all. Not as the only legit starting option.

 

We don't know what went on behind the scenes into the Hanigan trade though. If part of getting Hanigan was having to go into a 3-way trade and having to eat the 6M salary on Bell or whatever it was, I could completely see why the Jays wouldn't be a part of it. That kind of money could be the difference in signing a guy like Infante (not that I'm getting my hopes up).

 

I would hope he would have kept the farm and went free agent if this was true.

 

Not necessarily. If he was rushed into spending, they could have told him that they were open to acquiring players already on contracts, rather than blowing a lot more money in free agency. And besides, who would he have gone for? Hamilton? Bourn? Upton? We can say what we want right now, but Reyes and Johnson were probably the two best names that found a new team last offseason. I still stand by the Marlins trade, I thought it was good then, I think it's good now.

 

The two biggest mistakes were trading for Dickey and not signing Sanchez. I'm not sure how much Sanchez would have wanted to come here, but he was a guy I wanted from Day 1 and thought it would have been a great piece to add to the Toronto Marlins. I loved the Melky move, but never at any point was I ever able to convince myself that Dickey was a smart move. I thought it was stupid as f***ing balls then, and I think it's worse now.

[Terminator]

I would hope he would have kept the farm and went free agent if this was true.

 

I hate to rehash the event of last year but there are a whole host of reasons why the FA route may not have been possible if ownership was pushing for one huge offseason. FA market is slower to develop, FA's don't like signing with losers and often use losers to drive up the price, the whole Canada thing, etc. It all adds up.

[fireballW]

I would hope he would have kept the farm and went free agent if this was true.

 

FA have a choice where they go, traded players don't. Toronto isn't a dump, quite the opposite, but we know that all things being equal (or even close to equal), many players don't want to come here. Remember even just all the articles about Johnson and M.B. about pitbulls and Johnson being unsure at first until talking to Buck.

[ace3113]

My prospect report on Rob Rasmussen.

 

http://www.breakingblue.ca/2013/12/04/birds-eye-view-rob-rasmussen-prospect/

[TwistedLogic]

My prospect report on Rob Rasmussen.

 

http://www.breakingblue.ca/2013/12/04/birds-eye-view-rob-rasmussen-prospect/

 

Gotta make an edit in your article. You said he got here along with Erik Krause, the correct spelling is Erik Kratz.

[TwistedLogic]

"What it basically comes down to is Toronto trading an older pricier reliever (Lincoln) for younger cheaper starter with a full six years of control remaining plus options."

 

comma between "older pricier"

change "for younger cheaper" into "for a younger, cheaper"

 

"If neither of these things happen, he still provides a cheap lefty relief option out of the bullpen where his stuff would play up and his breaking ball would be even more affective."

 

*be even more effective

 

Not a grammar Nazi, just want your article to be correctly edited. Brings it a wee bit more credibility.

[kcjaysfan]

"If neither of these things happen, he still provides a cheap lefty relief option out of the bullpen where his stuff would play up and his breaking ball would be even more affective."

 

*be even more effective

 

Unless he thinks his breaking ball would make the hitters more emotional. I've seen it happen. It's dreadful.

[kcjaysfan]

"He also has had slightly more success against lefties than he has against righties registering an OPS of .683 to .743 respectively against each."

 

A few more commas, if you please, sir.

 

I would put a comma after "righties" and ".743". I would also drop the "against each" and change "to" to "and".

 

"He also has had slightly more success against lefties than he has against righties, registering an OPS of .683 and .743, respectively."

[Randy The Robot]

To make everyone cry:

 

Yan Gomes Steamer 3.0 WAR (380 PA)

Travis D'Arnaud Steamer 2.8 WAR (451 PA)

 

"Yan Gomes is just a guy" -Gordendouger

[Abomination]

To make everyone cry:

 

Yan Gomes Steamer 3.0 WAR (380 PA)

Travis D'Arnaud Steamer 2.8 WAR (451 PA)

 

I highly doubt either come close to that. I would be surprised if Gomes is over 2 WAR and D'Arnaud breaks 1.5 WAR. Have to wait and see though, just my opinion.

[TwistedLogic]

I highly doubt either come close to that. I would be surprised if Gomes is over 2 WAR and D'Arnaud breaks 1.5 WAR. Have to wait and see though, just my opinion.

 

Are you saying that you don't believe that Gomes can repeat his Rookie season success? If so, I can understand where you're coming from, but I ask because you may also be one of the many people that don't realize that Gomes put up 3.7 WAR in 2013.

 

I think both of them can reasonably hit those marks, and even surpass them.

[Abomination]

Are you saying that you don't believe that Gomes can repeat his Rookie season success?

 

That's correct. He basically exceeded his numbers in the minors (some of which was inflated by a .392 babip in Vegas) at the major league level on both offense and defense. I expect the league to adapt to him, as well as his numbers across the board to regress. Most players who come onto the major league stage with the kind of impact Gomes did seem to struggle the next year a bit.

 

I'd still take him back in a heartbeat over anyone we have.

[Cooler Heads Prevail]

Carruth has Kratz at 6.7 RAA. That would have given him 1.4 fWAR in 218 PA last year. Kratz is at ~16.7 RAA/10000 pitches. Rasmussen was good at one point and then blew up last year idek. Lincoln is wholly replaceable. Basically Snider for these two. I doubt AA realizes it but for a minor deal this is really quite excellent.

 

So he made the trade and you think he doesn't realize what he did ? Do you know how utterly stupid you sound making that statement ?

 

This is supposed to be a pro-Jays message board. If we make a helpful minor trade it's criticized. If we do nothing it's criticized. If we eventually pick up an expensive free agent ( perhaps at a slight overpay ) it will no doubt be roundly criticized. So much negativity, so much over posting about everything under the sun, almost no real insight from you kiddies on any give day.

[Cooler Heads Prevail]

It really seems like AA did his homework. Steamer has Navarro at 1.7 WAR and Kratz at 0.9 WAR for 2014. Not sure if they both combine for that type of impact, but overall, I really like what AA did here. It's the sum of these types of moves that could end up really paying off.

 

If the Rays made these two moves, many here would be giving more credit to the FO. With essentially no change in payroll, AA has improved this team and set himself up nicely to make a bigger splash having already addressed the most pressing need.

 

Giving credit to the Jays isn't in the nature of the bee hive on here. They'd rather post how we will be dumping all our best prospects and we should give away our better bullpen parts for next to nothing.