CNNSI: Blue Jays - Marlins trade 1 year later

[Olerud363]

f*** Off BTS, that's a BS comment if I've ever seen one. Hiding behind increased fan support, lol. You must be baiting, just because you have no faith in management, doesn't mean you should "HOPE" for failure? Sure, s*** down the throat of every fan that gives a s***, give me a f***ing break, all because AA isn't Friedman/Mozeliak/Daniels or Luhnow, etc, you have to remember you're not the only one AA has let down, stop being so f***ing butthurt.

 

If AA doesn't fix this club over the winter, and we don't stay relatively healthy next year, AA and Beeston will have what's coming to them, but to hope for it? Give me a f***ing break.

 

If one is hoping for 60 wins instead of 82 so the Beeston era can finally end that is valid.

 

If one is hoping for 60 wins instead of 95 then that is not right.

 

The last 20 years have been like ground hog day. So a lot of us are just hoping for something to finally break the cycle. The preferred route would be a championship (atleast playoff appearance, or even september contention) which starts a positive feedback cycle, which leads to attendance increase, which leads to increased payroll, which leads to more good years.

 

The other option is a disastrous season which leads to major (in which Beeston leaves) management change, philosaphy change and finally breaks the cycle.

 

I think the fear is 82 wins next year leads to 78 leads to 81 leads to 72 leads to 84 and so on and so on and so on....

[Olerud363]

I'm still speechless........no words, inexcusable?

 

The criteria for bringing a guy like Nolin up is that you are willing to give him 5 starts no matter what. If you are not willing to do that, then don't bring him up.

[Angrioter]

lol. Good responses.

 

Fat chance but..anyway you could find out what his source is?

 

You no comprende baseball hermano.

 

Nolin had.............He had...........................low ERA?

[Olerud363]

Thanks tips, it's right there in my post.

 

You just told him to f*** off without thinking of the reasoning behind his comment.

 

I'm guessing he doesn't want another 10 years of 75-85 win seasons. You didn't really get into that. You just told the guy to f*** off.

 

I'm assuming his point was that instead of 80 wins with excuses he'd rather have a disastrous season. BTS is not ROOTING against the Jays (atleast as far as I can tell). He just thinks disaster will effect change, thus be better in the long run. Everybody wants a great season... but some don't think it's an option with this regimie.

 

Whatever.... it's the internet... cool one line comments, zingers, blasting each other, assuming the worst from every post... yer good at it!

[Olerud363]

Thanks tips, why are you posting nonsense I'm aware of, hence my comment?

 

So replying to a Nolin comment with "I'm still speechless........no words, inexcusable?" is OK??? But actually trying add some more detail to it is nonsense??

 

Jesus christ under that criteria 99% of the posts on this board are nonsense we're all aware of. How many starts should a young pitcher get 3?? 5?? 10?? 30?? f*** it, not worth discussing.

 

What is allowed

 

1. Yer dumb

2. Other clever short zinger reply.

[Olerud363]

Oh please, you're just being condescending as you have with the last few responses to me. As you did on one of the poll discussions as well. When my response to another poster is "I'm still speechless........no words, inexcusable?" what the f*** do you think I'm saying, when AA brought up Nolin and burned an option for 1.1 innings, yeah he should've been used for as long as they needed him, instead of the roller coaster ride pitchers were on?

 

Wasn't trying to be condascending... Yeah I remember that poll... the guy (Arkadium??) put some effort into it, and it was kind of funny... It didn't deserve to be slammed like it was. That's all I was getting at.

 

Most of the time you're right... hell when you slam my posts for being over the top you're right. But sometimes you're a little hard on people who don't deserve it.

[Olerud363]

LOL.....Olerud....Olerud....Olerud, yeah it's the internet, get thicker skin. BTS knows I'm not literally telling him to f*** off, it was just about his comment, he knows my views as I do his, I mean the post was directed to BTS, not you? If you think I need to write a full page or a 4 paragaph post to get my point across, well suck farts bro!! Especially when there's no need to, I'm awaiting response from him, I don't need you to babysit me through his train of thought Olerud. You once again came across as a condescending dick thinking I'm not aware of what BTS means?! As for the post above, seriously, again you're trying to tell me what he thinks, just go write a full page conspiracy theory on Beeston or Stoeten or whoever else is f***ing with your tin hat......Blow me ya Kook!

 

I said good day!

 

Edit: "BTS is not ROOTING against the Jays (atleast as far as I can tell)."

 

And you would know this how after his comments^^^^^^^^lol.

 

People ussually get what they deserve... I write nonsensical rambling posts on Beeston or Stoeten, by all means I deserve what I get.

 

But on occasion when I've been slammed undeservedly I've appreciated someone coming to my defense. So I'm not trying to babysit you.

 

You've stated that Beeston and AA will get what they deserve... if things go bad. I personally don't believe this. If things go really bad they will. But if there's any room to spin it Beeston and AA will stay.

 

Beeston is very good at impressing other suits. Trade Sanchez, Stroman, and what's left on the farm, raise payroll to an unsustainable level then get 82 wins?? You think Beeston and AA will be fired if that happens?? Gibbons will but that's it.

[TDotttt2005]

Major bump on this thread...

 

Descalfani will become the first of the minor league SP's traded away in the "Great" offseason of 2012/13 to make his Major League debut tonight. Nicolino and Syndergaard are still in the minors with their respective organizations. Will be interesting to see how these guys fare, since it was the minor league pitching talent that was the backbone of our vaunted minor league system prior to the trades, and what we've complained about the most, since the bust of the 2013 season. DeScalfani was probably the least touted of the SP's, but was decent in Double-A the past couple of years. He's in his age 24 year, so makes sense that he is promoted ahead of Nicolino.

 

They say you cant judge these types of trades until a few years later once the prospects have established what they're going to be....so here goes....

[Boxcar]

In terms of franchise value, Forbes has Tampa Bay dead last. They also have a habit of never winning a World Series. I guess some on here just like having a decent team on the field that plays to empty crowds and is never quite good enough to win it all. Jays have always had decent attendance but in the 1980s they had the same habit of being close but never winning the Series. Only by spending on a few quality free agents and trading Kent ( for example ) did they break through. Most of the Jays moves in the years immediately preceding the World Series wins would have been wildly panned on here as bad moves ( taking on "declining" veterans, trading away youth ).

 

CHP post checklist:

 

Bashes the Rays for being poor and "not winning a WS"...check.

Creates a hypothetical scenario where he imagines all the regular posters looking like stuid dickheads...check

Alludes to the teams from the late 80s and tries to apply them to the present day...check

 

All we're missing is a Leafs analogy!

 

Edit: Wow, old post but I don't read like 90% of threads in the main section.

[Terminator]

It`s definitely a franchise crippling trade.

 

So much young, controllable talent there.

 

There is?

[wardhenke1]

Truthfully I was excited by this trade until the awful realization dawned on myself and most fans that we were not getting what we thought we were, starting with Johnson (ugh) and Reyes's ongoing injury woes. The trading of Escobar however was cowardly and political and done at the behest of politically correct liberal imbeciles in the media (are there any other kind?) starting with McCown. I didn't like it then and I like it even less after reading this article.

[TheHurl]

There is?

 

I would have went with so much value. I valued it a $100M in a value win for Florida at the time of the trade...might be closer to the $200M a certain Rays F.O. employee predicted by the time 6 years are up. Alvarez is looking like a legit number 4. Nicolino will still be in the bigs by September, Disco (great nickname) is pitching tonight. Hech is Hech, showing for short stretches that he's got a bat...but deep down he's all glove, the metrics will show that eventually. Escobar was wasted in a deal...but I might add that the Jays were better off dealing Escobar for Deitrich than going with Izturis and Boni.

 

I'll be the first to admit that I was wrong about Buerhle and his value only being in the innings he pitches.

[SpeedyGose]

There is?

 

If we don't make that trade, we are set up so well for the future.

 

All the talent we lost (Nico, Hech, Synder, Desc, Yunel, Alvarez) plus we would have the chance to sell off Janssen, Bautista, Lind, Edwin. Possibly contending in 2016 rather than 2020.

 

Is our rotation much worse than it is now if it had: Hutch, Stroman, Alvarez, McGowan and Happ

[Nox]

There is?

 

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/500x/46188801.jpg

[eastcoastjaysfan]

Everyone forgets about Jake

 

Funny how most people were disappointed in Jake and Nicolino going the other way. Alvarez was a bit of an afterthought because of the s***** K numbers... Hech had no bat. Desclafani was some fringe-prospect/org guy.

 

Now Alvarez looks like an established mid-rotation starter, Hech's bat is slowly coming along, and Desclafani is making his MLB debut after doing quite well in the minors. If Nicolino and Marisnick develop... it'll be in the same ballpark as the Colon for Lee/Phillips/Sizemore deal.

[Cooler Heads Prevail]

CHP post checklist:

 

Bashes the Rays for being poor and "not winning a WS"...check.

Creates a hypothetical scenario where he imagines all the regular posters looking like stuid dickheads...check

Alludes to the teams from the late 80s and tries to apply them to the present day...check

 

All we're missing is a Leafs analogy!

 

Edit: Wow, old post but I don't read like 90% of threads in the main section.

 

Boxcar checklist : Post some piss poor hatchet job post trying to impress people. Repeat. f*** you're predictably stupid. You did take a post off

to declare that Rob Ford seems like a decent guy, just like you spent a little time supporting steroid cheaters before. Every sign points to you being

an immoral *******. I don't really care what you think.

[Spoonovic]

Funny how most people were disappointed in Jake and Nicolino going the other way. Alvarez was a bit of an afterthought because of the s***** K numbers... Hech had no bat. Desclafani was some fringe-prospect/org guy.

 

Now Alvarez looks like an established mid-rotation starter, Hech's bat is slowly coming along, and Desclafani is making his MLB debut after doing quite well in the minors. If Nicolino and Marisnick develop... it'll be in the same ballpark as the Colon for Lee/Phillips/Sizemore deal.

 

The Jays arent good at developing minor leaguers. So all this might be a moot point. It is probably a great thing for the development of those minor league players to have been traded to the Marlins. They should be very happy.

[KingKat]

Truthfully I was excited by this trade until the awful realization dawned on myself and most fans that we were not getting what we thought we were, starting with Johnson (ugh) and Reyes's ongoing injury woes. The trading of Escobar however was cowardly and political and done at the behest of politically correct liberal imbeciles in the media (are there any other kind?) starting with McCown. I didn't like it then and I like it even less after reading this article.

 

McCown would be surprised to hear you call him a liberal.

[fatcowxlive]

C - D'Arnaud/Navarro/Kratz/Mathis

1B - EE/Lind

2B - Hech/Aviles

3B - Lawrie

SS - Escobar

LF - Melky

CF - Rasmus

RF - Bautista

 

Synd

Alvarez

Morrow

Hutch

Stroman

 

Just let that sink in

Edited May 14, 2014 by fatcowxlive

[Sammy225]

C - D'Arnaud/Navarro/Kratz/Mathis

1B - EE/Lind

2B - Hech/Aviles

3B - Lawrie

SS - Escobar

LF - Melky

CF - Rasmus

RF - Bautista

 

Synd

Alvarez

Morrow

Hech

Stroman

 

Just let that sink in

 

Bold move letting Hech do double duty at 2nd and SP. Never know them Cubans are some kind of talented at baseball.

[wardhenke1]

McCown would be surprised to hear you call him a liberal.

 

Yesterday I swear to you that he called himself a democrat when discussing the issue of PED's and Marijuana in sports. The other broadcaster described himself as a republican in contrast.

[fatcowxlive]

I don't know how good Hechs pitching abilities are.. Also Gomes at c, if we didnt do the Rogers trade

Bold move letting Hech do double duty at 2nd and SP. Never know them Cubans are some kind of talented at baseball.

 

OH YOU KNOW WHO I MEAN!!!!! Sheeesh

[Muck Bartinez]

I don't know how good Hechs pitching abilities are.. Also Gomes at c, if we didnt do the Rogers trade

 

Also about 45 MM to plug holes assuming current salary levels.

[Terminator]

I would have went with so much value. I valued it a $100M in a value win for Florida at the time of the trade...might be closer to the $200M a certain Rays F.O. employee predicted by the time 6 years are up. Alvarez is looking like a legit number 4. Nicolino will still be in the bigs by September, Disco (great nickname) is pitching tonight. Hech is Hech, showing for short stretches that he's got a bat...but deep down he's all glove, the metrics will show that eventually. Escobar was wasted in a deal...but I might add that the Jays were better off dealing Escobar for Deitrich than going with Izturis and Boni.

 

I'll be the first to admit that I was wrong about Buerhle and his value only being in the innings he pitches.

 

Alvarez does look like a legit #4. As for the rest of those guys, this is just my opinion but Hech and Marisinick are bench players. I am not sold on either Nicolino or DeSclafani, I wouldn't bet on either being serviceable starters in the big leagues but maybe they'll prove me wrong.

 

I agree with you on Escobar, he was wasted in a deal because of non-baseball reasons.

[TheHurl]

Disco is just 7 RBI's behind Reyes

[eastcoastjaysfan]

Desclafani MLB debut:

 

6IP 2ER 7K/1BB

[CHRIS]

Desclafani MLB debut:

 

6IP 2ER 7K/1BB

 

Those debut numbers are very Litsch-like.

 

jk

[Angrioter]

DiSclafani 0.1 WAR = 3 WAR/180IP

HendAlvarez 2.3 WAR = 2.7 WAR/180IP

Josh Johnson 0.5 WAR = 1.1 WAR/180IP

 

DiSclafani is the new Jesse Chavez.

[BlueJaysGirl]

Boy, that's true. I don't even recall hearing his name in the trade, honestly.

[Smedley Butler]

I really don't think the franchise is intent on building a model baseball franchise as much as they are in trying to create a buzz and/or hype even though, a well-run baseball operations dept would generate even more interest, ratings and ticket sales in the long run than taking risky shortcuts to achieve short term interest.

 

This is the kind of myopic, incompetent long-term planning that comes from having an accountant in a management position. All he can think about is short-term ROI, and even then only purely in monetary terms, which is a self-defeating strategy long-term for any franchise in professional sports if growing the fanbase is a priority.

 

Plus, the guy doesn't seem to be too sharp. Whenever he opens his mouth he belies his own stupidity. Beeston needs to go, like f***ing yesterday already.