Davidi: Arencibia opens up about turbulent 2013

[G-Snarls]

Like negotiating with agents and making trades. It's a lot harder than it seems to make big deals. It's one thing to say what the right move is, it's much harder to make it happen.

 

Yep. There were other teams (esp. Rangers) who also wanted Dickey. You can't just decide what players you want to send and make it happen. That said it WAS a crazy overpay.

[DuckDuckGose]

Yep. There were other teams (esp. Rangers) who also wanted Dickey. You can't just decide what players you want to send and make it happen. That said it WAS a crazy overpay.

 

It was a terrible trade at the time and even worse now. Still Dickey was a great get and as you said a guy many teams were in on.

[Howard Roark]

FWIW I'm still of the belief that AA was forced by higher-ups The Board and/or Beeston to jettison his plan and sell the future in an attempt to bring forward serious contention by a few seasons. You don't spend that much time talking about building up the farm and growing from within and only when you're on the cusp adding in a few FA's here and there to fill holes your farm can't fill, only to do a complete 180 degree turn all of a sudden for no apparent reason.

[G-Snarls]

It was a terrible trade at the time and even worse now. Still Dickey was a great get and as you said a guy many teams were in on.

 

Would have been painful for the Rangers in another way too, even if they hadn't had to part with Profar. They are, after all, the team that let him go for nothing 4 years ago. (And the Mets almost certainly were demanding Profar)

[Olerud363]

Like negotiating with agents and making trades. It's a lot harder than it seems to make big deals. It's one thing to say what the right move is, it's much harder to make it happen.

 

OK. So AA has some special skill that makes this happen where guys on this board don't??

 

That's one of those phony skills, and believing in that is why you get this situation in the first place.

 

Now... beyond a doubt it takes a certain type of personality to negotiate a contract. You need to have the balls, and schmoozing ability to deal with a Boras type. You need a little math. Go to your average high school and find slightly nerdy kids that are well liked, know how to hang with the jocks, know how to get invited to the parties despite being nerdy... those types exist, and there are lots of them. Start with that base. Find some that have balls enough to play baseball (even though they might not be that good, or more they go as far as they can with baseball, until they are (relatively) not that good) and that's what your looking for. That's your base. Get them in College, get them a bit of accounting and/or business, get them selling used cars or some s*** for a while, then get them their mlb internship and go from there.

 

There's an incredible number of people on this earth, and the subfraction that fits the above description is very large, and I am sure describes many on this board.

 

Thinking that AA has some unique skill is what is getting us into this situation. You have a large of people who could do this and need a couple of breaks. It's a lottery to a large extent...

[Olerud363]

Yep. There were other teams (esp. Rangers) who also wanted Dickey. You can't just decide what players you want to send and make it happen. That said it WAS a crazy overpay.

 

It's a lot of work. You can't just say Arencibia, Drabek and Gose for Dickey... make it so. But if you had a your whole life to dedicate to this... every waking hour. You had the resources of interns, scouts, subordinates... etc. You had a huge office with comfy chairs, and lots of white boards, access to propretary scouting and statistical info, a secratary to get you coffee, snacks, an expense card for supper.

 

And again you have every waking hour to dedicate to this??

 

Can you do it??

[Atothe]

Davidi is truly in love with The ceeb, he's tried to hide that for so long but its clear as day now

[DuckDuckGose]

OK. So AA has some special skill that makes this happen where guys on this board don't??

 

Yes, without a doubt.

 

That's one of those phony skills, and believing in that is why you get this situation in the first place.

 

Negotiating isn't a phony skill. It's a real talent and a big part of the job.

 

Now... beyond a doubt it takes a certain type of personality to negotiate a contract. You need to have the balls, and schmoozing ability to deal with a Boras type. You need a little math. Go to your average high school and find slightly nerdy kids that are well liked, know how to hang with the jocks, know how to get invited to the parties despite being nerdy... those types exist, and there are lots of them. Start with that base. Find some that have balls enough to play baseball (even though they might not be that good, or more they go as far as they can with baseball, until they are (relatively) not that good) and that's what your looking for. That's your base. Get them in College, get them a bit of accounting and/or business, get them selling used cars or some s*** for a while, then get them their mlb internship and go from there.

 

You are talking about developing someone from the board in to a GM. There is no one from this board that could step in right now and do a better job than AA has to date, and AA is a bad GM. With experience and education (some probably just need experience) there are lots of intelligent, personable and motivated people on this board that could be a good MLB GM.

 

There's an incredible number of people on this earth, and the subfraction that fits the above description is very large, and I am sure describes many on this board.

 

We aren't talking about what people could be or become, we are talking about what they are.

 

Thinking that AA has some unique skill is what is getting us into this situation. You have a large of people who could do this and need a couple of breaks. It's a lottery to a large extent...

 

He has a unique skill-set because he has a unique set of experiences. Sure if people on this board actually went for it and got internships and moved up the ladder (which is the point you made in the first place) then yes, they could be better GM's than AA has been to date.

[ElNik2013]

He has a unique skill-set because he has a unique set of experiences. Sure if people on this board actually went for it and got internships and moved up the ladder (which is the point you made in the first place) then yes, they could be better GM's than AA has been to date.

 

 

 

Problem is, a lot of the knowledgeable people on this or other boards won't take the chance to go for it, they talk a good game though. They also provide a good service to some of us who won't go waste our time looking up stats in part because someone else will do the work for us, so let's keep it this way. They also liked the job AA did his 1st 2 years. I think the Happ deal was the start of the end for a lot of posters when it came to AA and rightfully so as it was quite ominous of things to come. Having said that, a lot of critics still picked the team to contend so I'm not so sure they'd do a better job. Maybe they would've kept the farm intact, but maybe they would've been pressured to improve the team for 2013 and striking out in FA was not an option, who knows, maybe they would still have given up less to get the players they did.

[ElNik2013]

FWIW I'm still of the belief that AA was forced by higher-ups The Board and/or Beeston to jettison his plan and sell the future in an attempt to bring forward serious contention by a few seasons. You don't spend that much time talking about building up the farm and growing from within and only when you're on the cusp adding in a few FA's here and there to fill holes your farm can't fill, only to do a complete 180 degree turn all of a sudden for no apparent reason.

 

 

I'm of this suspicion. However, I still hold AA accountable for not negotiating better trades with both the Mets and Marlins. I understand not wanting to strike out, but the moment Beinfest brought up Buehrle and Reyes, AA should've realized that they wanted to dump their salaries. The Mets were having trouble coming to terms on an extension with RAD, it was no secret and there was really only one more team involved (Rangers) and they weren't willing to meet teh Mets' asking price. Anyway, too late now.

[Olerud363]

Yes, without a doubt.

 

There is no one from this board that could step in right now and do a better job than AA has to date, and AA is a bad GM. With experience and education (some probably just need experience) there are lots of intelligent, personable and motivated people on this board that could be a good MLB GM.

 

We aren't talking about what people could be or become, we are talking about what they are.

 

 

I don't know... take someone from this board...

 

take a prospect hound, with a bit of analytics, and a bit of scouting... take a guy who believes in prospects fully and completely. He might do the Halladay trade a bit different... maybe trades Bautista. Does like Oakland As and recycles players into prospects early, trades Romero, Lind, Hill closer to their high (no one is going to sell exactly at the high). Never trades a young player for an older player. Avaiable money goes into the young international players.

 

Or take a guy who recognizes that after 2009 there is still an oppurtunity to contend with Halladay, gets Halladay to stay somehow (fires Cito if he has to), convinces ownership to spend, and goes all in for 2010.

 

More than "experience" just a different overall vision, would take the franchise in very different directions, some of which are obviously much better then what has happened (obviously there are disaster scenarios as well).

 

So it comes to whether someone, with an outstanding overall plan could get up to speed on the technical skills needed quickly enough...

Could a guy come from nowhere and have the "street cred" so to say to implement his vision no matter what??

 

Maybe not... so you get back to issue that you need the 10 years apprenticeship.

[Olerud363]

So it comes to whether someone, with an outstanding overall plan could get up to speed on the technical skills needed quickly enough...

Could a guy come from nowhere and have the "street cred" so to say to implement his vision no matter what??

 

And here is how I view AA actually. He did have an outstanding overall plan, but did not have the street cred/balls to implement it no matter what. He ended up at the Mercy of Beeston... regarding Cito, regarding Murphy, regarding "all-in".

[reedjohnsonfan]

"I hit .230"

 

Almost sounds like he thinks that's good.

 

Well, it IS better than .199

 

How low can he go? Maybe he won't get another hit this year?

[Nox]

The Peter Principle in action.

 

Unrelated to the thread, but I enjoyed this:

 

http://arxiv.org/pdf/0907.0455v3.pdf

[G-Snarls]

Bobcat tearing into Arencibia right now lol

 

Missed it

[Gen.Disarray]

I feel like JP is lucky he plays for Toronto and not somewhere like New York where he would torn to shreds every day.

[Howard Roark]

In my mind the worst thing he's done is going crying to Beeston in an attempt to get Zaun and Hayhurst FIRED FOR CRITICIZING HIS PLAY.

 

I mean, that is seriously f***ing pathetic and mean-spirited. Zaun is a millionaire and whatnot, but Hayhurst isn't. You don't f*** with someone's livelihood and ability to put food on his family's table just because he bruised your precious little ego, JP seriously deserves a serious f***ing beating for pulling something like that. I get genuinely mad when I think about it, that punk needs to bleed a little for that s***, and I'm not just trying to sound dramatic.

[John_Havok]

JPA vs Howard 12:00 tonight south corner of yonge/bloor

 

Pop him a good one

 

Guaranteed JPA wouldn't kand a blow #swingandamiss

[GD]

Guaranteed JPA wouldn't kand a blow #swingandamiss

 

oh that would have been such a beauty one liner if not for the typo #highstandards #whyarewehashtagging

[John_Havok]

oh that would have been such a beauty one liner if not for the typo #highstandards #whyarewehashtagging

 

#allthecoolkidsdo

[GD]

#allthecoolkidsdo

 

#amiacoolkid #yayimpopular #highschoolproblems #hashtaggingisgivingmeananyeurysm

[Howard Roark]

Seriously guys, twitter and hashtagging is pathetically lame if you're over the age of 16. Stop being such a bunch of fags with that social media cancer.

[GD]

Seriously guys, twitter and hashtagging is pathetically lame if you're over the age of 16. Stop being such a bunch of fags with that social media cancer.

 

Aha!

[Stangstag]

In my mind the worst thing he's done is going crying to Beeston in an attempt to get Zaun and Hayhurst FIRED FOR CRITICIZING HIS PLAY.

 

I mean, that is seriously f***ing pathetic and mean-spirited. Zaun is a millionaire and whatnot, but Hayhurst isn't. You don't f*** with someone's livelihood and ability to put food on his family's table just because he bruised your precious little ego, JP seriously deserves a serious f***ing beating for pulling something like that. I get genuinely mad when I think about it, that punk needs to bleed a little for that s***, and I'm not just trying to sound dramatic.

 

Yeah that move was pathetic. I also believe that all of the charity and s*** that he does is just a sham to make himself look good. JP is a pathetic human being and I have not seen him admit he is wrong ONCE.

[Stangstag]

The first step to improving is learning from your mistakes. Yet, JP does not believe he is doing anything wrong. He will never improve until somebody (AA, coaches) sends him a clear message.

[John_Havok]

Seriously guys, twitter and hashtagging is pathetically lame if you're over the age of 16. Stop being such a bunch of fags with that social media cancer.

 

#getoffmylawn!...damnkids

[Howard Roark]

#getoffmylawn!...damnkids

 

Yeah it's no surprise that it's mostly the kiddies here who are obsessed with that crap. People under 20, in general, will like whatever they're told to like. Sometimes I find myself longing for an EMP.

[Howard Roark]

Yeah that move was pathetic. I also believe that all of the charity and s*** that he does is just a sham to make himself look good. JP is a pathetic human being and I have not seen him admit he is wrong ONCE.

 

Anytime I see someone trying to humblebrag about charity work I want to kill them slowly with power tools. Seriously, that s*** is LOW.

 

Serious case of NPD with Jonathan Paul.

[GD]

lol Twitter has hundreds of millions of users. It's not just some fad for 'kiddies'. It's a useful tool for any type of person.

 

It's nice for sports. But some of the teens on it are absolutely unbearable

[GD]

It's like a personalized news ticker. I use it more as an information tool than a social one.

 

Yeah that's the most ideal way. When you use it for social uses, it gets terrifying haha