NBA Thread

[connorp]

KD acting like a proper ****.

 

Idk. It’s a pretty normal human reaction really (considering all the drama the media whips up) but obviously not the way a pro athlete should handle it. Wouldn’t label him a baby though

[Krylian]

I like this trade, moreso this is a positive impact on cap space starting next year.

 

Seems like most people have the Raps winning this deal. Maybe I'm underrating Gasol. Will be curious to see how he fits into the lineup.

[Carlos Danger]

I don't like this. A 34 year old Gasol for JV, Delon, z Miles, and a 2nd? My gut doesn't like this

 

JV was a choker in the playoffs and a big part of our playoff issues. I wanted him DR, KL gone after last year. So far 2-3;) Even if we get the same production (Gasol is a better two way player), it is a good deal for the team and chemistry.

[Laika]

The NBA has such weird economics

[P2F]

Idk. It’s a pretty normal human reaction really (considering all the drama the media whips up) but obviously not the way a pro athlete should handle it. Wouldn’t label him a baby though

 

Well, he didn't. He clearly labelled him a ****.

[vdartanian]

JV was a choker in the playoffs and a big part of our playoff issues. I wanted him DR, KL gone after last year. So far 2-3;) Even if we get the same production (Gasol is a better two way player), it is a good deal for the team and chemistry.

 

Personally I would have preferred the Lowry/JV for Conley/Gasol deal

 

Not sure why everyone was freaking out over that one. Gasol may be on the decline but is a significant upgrade over JV and all-around good player (similar to Kawhai).

But Gasol makes Raptors a much better team, at the expense of some depth, which we've all seen means jack-s*** come playoff time.

 

 

Raptors really could have used a decent long-range shooter. Really not a decent 3-ball threat in the bunch (and don't say "what about Danny Green" cause if you do you're no longer my friends!)

[Terminator]

ESPN Insider Trade Grades

 

Raptors get: Marc Gasol

 

Grizzlies get: Jonas Valanciunas, Delon Wright, CJ Miles and a 2024 second-round pick

 

Toronto Raptors: B-plus

 

At this stage of his career, Gasol can no longer be considered a star player. At a position where players are scoring more efficiently than ever -- the average center has a true shooting percentage of .595 this season -- Gasol has become a volume scorer, with his .541 true shooting percentage worse than the league average across all positions (.558).

 

That makes the Raptors an ideal fit for Gasol, assuming he's ready to accept a smaller role. When he plays with Toronto's starters, Gasol won't need to create much of his own offense. The Raptors have plenty of other options for that, and his playmaking from the high post and floor spacing will fit in well with the offense Nick Nurse wants to run.

 

Toronto may turn Gasol loose offensively with the second unit, the role Valanciunas played before he was sidelined by thumb surgery in mid-December. (Amazingly, Valanciunas' usage rate of 25.6 percent this season is higher than Gasol's 22.6 percent usage.) There, he should benefit from far superior floor spacing -- compared to what he saw in Memphis -- and the opportunity to feast on lesser defenders. According to Second Spectrum tracking, Valanciunas was double-teamed on just 7.1 percent of his post-up opportunities this season, as compared to 12.8 percent of Gasol's post-ups drawing help.

 

There's no question that Gasol is an upgrade over the more limited Valanciunas, particularly at the defensive end of the court. The concern is whether Gasol will be amenable to the kind of role reduction Valanciunas accepted this season, when Nurse moved him to the bench in favor of the starting frontcourt of Serge Ibaka and Pascal Siakam that has been so effective for Toronto.

 

In certain playoff matchups, particularly against Joel Embiid and the Philadelphia 76ers, starting Gasol next to either Ibaka or Siakam will probably make sense for the Raptors. But whether Gasol starts or not, he's probably not going to be the right choice to finish games against the stretchier East bigs, Al Horford of the Boston Celtics and Brook Lopez of the Milwaukee Bucks. Toronto didn't have to worry about sitting Valanciunas in those situations. Will Gasol be OK with it?

 

That concern noted, the structure of this deal made it one the Raptors almost had to make. They didn't have to give up a draft pick of value, leaving impending restricted free agent Wright as the only value Toronto is surrendering. With Fred VanVleet already under contract for 2019-20, re-signing Wright was no sure thing. The Raptors also benefited by moving Miles' $8.7 million 2019-20 salary. Mired in a shooting slump that has seen him make just 31 percent of his 3-pointers this season, Miles had moved to the fringes of Toronto's rotation.

 

Amazingly, the Raptors managed to cut their luxury-tax bill from nearly $30 million to $26.5 million with this trade. (That figure includes Gasol's trade bonus.) That will go up when Toronto fills out the roster, having dropped to 12 players after dealing Malachi Richardson to Philadelphia in a tax-saving move Wednesday ahead of this three-for-one deal. The Raptors could be aggressive in pursuing buyout candidates using their taxpayer midlevel exception, which they did not dip into last summer.

 

For all the talk of Toronto being all-in on this season ahead of Kawhi Leonard's free agency, this trade -- like the one for Leonard -- allows the Raptors to build a veteran-laden team competing for the championship now without sacrificing their young core of Siakam, VanVleet and OG Anunoby. Toronto has few long-term salary commitments -- only Anunoby and Norman Powell are under contract beyond next season -- and plenty of flexibility if things don't work out for this group.

 

Memphis Grizzlies: C

 

I doubt this is exactly the kind of return the Grizzlies were envisioning when they formally made Gasol available for trades a few weeks ago. While keeping Gasol made little sense from a basketball perspective, his important role as part of the best era of Memphis' NBA history set the bar a little higher than usual for a player of his current value.

 

On the plus side, the Grizzlies avoided taking on truly awful salary. Given the limited value of centers on the market, Valanciunas is overpaid at $17.6 million next season, but he's a solid player who can keep Jaren Jackson Jr. from having to move to center full-time if Memphis wants to delay that transition.

 

Miles also is bad salary, though a strong veteran leader in the locker room who might be able to rebuild his value if he can get back on track from long distance. (Both Miles and Valanciunas have 2019-20 player options, but given their high salaries they appear likely to exercise them and stay on the books.)

 

It will be interesting to see how the Grizzlies handle Wright's restricted free agency, which may depend on whether they trade starting point guard Mike Conley by then. If so, Wright has shown enough with the Raptors to potentially be a low-end starting point guard to bridge the gap to Memphis' starter of the future. All told, this makes this perhaps a slight upgrade on just keeping Gasol. I'm not sure that's enough to justify moving on from a franchise icon.

[Terminator]

Who could the Raps target with buyouts? They've got some exception money for that and they need to fill out the roster.

[jaysblue]

Who could the Raps target with buyouts? They've got some exception money for that and they need to fill out the roster.

 

Ellington or Matthews would be nice.

[43211234]

Who could the Raps target with buyouts? They've got some exception money for that and they need to fill out the roster.

 

Jeremy Lin would be an amazing get.

[Dick_Pole]

[Laika]

Is it, uhh, weird for a championship competitor to be filling our their team with multiple buyout players?

[Orgfiller]

Ellington or Matthews would be nice.

 

Matthews is reported to be signing with Indiana.

[Orgfiller]

Is it, uhh, weird for a championship competitor to be filling our their team with multiple buyout players?

 

Not really, our bench will still consist of VanVleet, Powell, one of Ibaka/Gasol and OG which is plenty of depth as long as everyone is healthy. The buyouts will all be back end bench players, ideally getting a specialist like Ellington would be really nice.

 

Also this is pretty much what Houston is doing as well and Daryl Morey is one of the top executives in the sport.

[jaysblue]

Is it, uhh, weird for a championship competitor to be filling our their team with multiple buyout players?

 

In the playoffs, you play all your top guys more minutes anyways, and the Raptors still have a deep bench with VanVleet, Ibaka, OG and Powell if everyone is healthy. Guys like Wright or Miles likely wouldn't even be getting that many minutes anyways off the bench in a playoff game. It would be nice if the Raps had another 3 point shooter.

[Abomination]

In the playoffs, you play all your top guys more minutes anyways, and the Raptors still have a deep bench with VanVleet, Ibaka, OG and Powell if everyone is healthy. Guys like Wright or Miles likely wouldn't even be getting that many minutes anyways off the bench in a playoff game. It would be nice if the Raps had another 3 point shooter.

 

Boucher can probably fill that 3 point role. I think my targets would be Mack and Kanter (if he's willing to take the reduced role) to provide rebounding and depth at PG.

[Orgfiller]

Boucher can probably fill that 3 point role. I think my targets would be Mack and Kanter (if he's willing to take the reduced role) to provide rebounding and depth at PG.

 

Kanter is AWFUL and a total drama queen. I want no part of him honestly, would much prefer Robin Lopez.

[Abomination]

Kanter is AWFUL and a total drama queen. I want no part of him honestly, would much prefer Robin Lopez.

 

Dunno about Lopez, I think we need someone who is an elite rebounder for certain matchups.

[Abomination]

Well, that opening quarter sucked. At least we're not down a boatload, because we sure deserve to be.

[Orgfiller]

Well, that opening quarter sucked. At least we're not down a boatload, because we sure deserve to be.

 

Have the Hawks missed a three? They looked like Golden State there for a moment.

[Abomination]

Have the Hawks missed a three? They looked like Golden State there for a moment.

 

That'll happen when you get to launch them wide open like that.

[Abomination]

Masai looks like he hasn't slept in a week lol.

[glory]

Seems like most people have the Raps winning this deal. Maybe I'm underrating Gasol. Will be curious to see how he fits into the lineup.

 

Yeah I think I read that analytics favor Gasol by a significant margin. He is better defensively, a better passer, and spreads the floor more. A lineup with Siakam/Gasol up front is going to be an upgrade. Enough of an upgrade to win the EC? I don't know. They couldn't really realistically improve at SG, SF, and PF, and Lowry is probably untradeable with his contract, so the only other option was to upgrade C, and they did.

 

The way the roster is set up, Masai is preparing for a rebuild after this year. This is basically his AA-2015 push except he actually cares enough to maintain flexibility, whereas AA threw both his middle fingers up and knew he was gone anyway.

[Dick_Pole]

The Raptors' depth was choking them up against the cap. A Golden State-like payroll without a Golden State team. This had to be done if the team has any shot of showing Leonard it's serious about building a winner by at least retaining Green.

 

I don't know why people keep throwing around this word rebuild. The team had a short bench and no Leonard tonight and manhandled a team actually in a rebuild on its home court after a bad start. This is basically next year's team if he goes to LA. If by rebuild you mean 45 win team with a first or second round playoff exit, then yeah I guess that's a rebuild. It's certainly no Jays 2018 team though.

[Maahfaace]

The Raptors' depth was choking them up against the cap. A Golden State-like payroll without a Golden State team. This had to be done if the team has any shot of showing Leonard it's serious about building a winner by at least retaining Green.

 

I don't know why people keep throwing around this word rebuild. The team had a short bench and no Leonard tonight and manhandled a team actually in a rebuild on its home court after a bad start. This is basically next year's team if he goes to LA. If by rebuild you mean 45 win team with a first or second round playoff exit, then yeah I guess that's a rebuild. It's certainly no Jays 2018 team though.

 

Rebuild in the sense that Lowry Ibaka and Gasol will more than likely be moved for assets either in the off season or at next years deadline when Kawhi leaves. Returns + Fred, Norm, OG, and Siakim as a core probably isn't playoff bound. Dont fool yourself, a rebuild is coming, but I have faith Masai will acquire more young exciting talent.

[Abomination]

Rebuild in the sense that Lowry Ibaka and Gasol will more than likely be moved for assets either in the off season or at next years deadline when Kawhi leaves. Returns + Fred, Norm, OG, and Siakim as a core probably isn't playoff bound. Dont fool yourself, a rebuild is coming, but I have faith Masai will acquire more young exciting talent.

 

Kawhi either signs long term or leaves this off-season, not next year's deadline. Regardless, Lowry, Gasol, Siakim, Ibaka, and whoever they signed as a FA to "replace" Kawhi would still likely be a solid playoff team, just not elite. They aren't tearing it down after this season.

[glory]

If Kawhi leaves I find it hard to imagine Masai not blowing the team up. Even if they could make the playoffs without Kawhi, why wouldn’t they try to use the giant expiring contracts to add long term assets as opposed to keeping them, finishing as a 5th or 6th seed, and losing them for nothing? Cap space for the Raptors is meaningless. No good free agent with options wants to play here.

 

Actually, considering who owns the Raptors, maybe a 45 win season and a competitive first round series would be preferable to a rebuild.

[Maahfaace]

Kawhi either signs long term or leaves this off-season, not next year's deadline. Regardless, Lowry, Gasol, Siakim, Ibaka, and whoever they signed as a FA to "replace" Kawhi would still likely be a solid playoff team, just not elite. They aren't tearing it down after this season.

 

I clearly didn't phrase that properly, it was in reference to Lowry, Ibaka, Gasol at next years deadline, not Leonard. It's pretty much a foregone conclusion he will attempt to rebuild when Leonard leaves. This is why he has put the roster in the position it is with all the expiring contracts.

[Krylian]

Kawhi either signs long term or leaves this off-season, not next year's deadline. Regardless, Lowry, Gasol, Siakim, Ibaka, and whoever they signed as a FA to "replace" Kawhi would still likely be a solid playoff team, just not elite. They aren't tearing it down after this season.

 

You're right. They'll do what the Blue Jays did and try to create the illusion of competitive ball. Hovering around 45 wins with an aging Lowry, Gasol, and Ibaka will just hurt them long term. If you can't sign Kawhi, or a comparable, then you need to get younger.

[Dick_Pole]

1. Lowry is declining and FVV is improving to the point where there might not be a noticeable drop off in talent once Lowry leaves.

2. The team has played the last two months without JV or Gasol and has posted a winning record, including the games without Leonard.

3. It's debatable if Ibaka is even a tradable asset by next year. Though if he is playing like how he is right now, he would be.

4. Depending on the timing of any trade, the Raptors may have significant salary cap to work with to restore their depth if the current bench guys are promoted to starting roles.

5. Have you seen the pile of s*** that occupies the rest of the Eastern Conference? Siakam would be arguably the best player on every team not currently slotted in a playoff spot. Unless the Knicks or some other team reverses the talent exodus to the West this offseason I don't see how that will be any different next year.

 

The cynical comparison of the Raptors to the Jays as a perpetual .500 team just because they aren't tanking is nonsense. Ujiri has thus far shown himself to be a much more capable GM than Ash, Ricciardi or AA. He's had mixed results on free agent acquisitions and re-signing players on the team but has been brilliant with trades and drafting. Once again Ricciardi's legacy on this city reigns supreme because people still have this loser mentality that no one wants to come to this city, Toronto teams can't compete to big cities like New York and Boston and that you need to embarrass your franchise like the 76ers did to get anywhere. The Spurs had 50+ win seasons every year basically since the Raptors came into existence until last year and they're located in San Antonio FFS.