Blue Jays: 2013 MLB Draft Signing thread

[Chappy]

It's entirely possible that they just looked at the two draft classes and decided that they'd prefer the 11th pick next year.

 

I wouldn't really give them that much credit though. Who knows.

 

11 + 20ish + supplemental for JJ = neato!

 

Although at this point, JJ might just accept a qualifying offer. And the Jays would probably just overdraft 3 high school arms with those picks anyway.

 

In either case if JJ walks or accepts the offer, I would be fine.

[TheHurl]

I'll withhold opinion until I see what happens with Tellez and Brentz. I was very much in favour of letting Bickford walk if he wanted overslot money that would cost us one of the two mentioned. If we don't get them I don't get it at all. Now the question is, with what was really a reach for the 10th pick...why didn't we have a pre-draft deal in place (against rules...blah blah blah) either Bickford was a strategy or a bad pick.

[admin]

Well, Stroman could be in the MLB this year providing value... Beede might still be 4 or 5 years away before he even starts contributing.

 

Probably 2-3 years away.

[admin]

It's entirely possible that they just looked at the two draft classes and decided that they'd prefer the 11th pick next year.

 

 

I'm thinking that's what it is.

[Laika]

- Would prefer the 11th round pick in next year's class

- Take a guy who wants a ton of money

- Offer him near slot but make him feel unwanted

- Doesn't look like you punted the pick

- Get a better prospect next year

- It's not completely transparent

 

The team that's been gaming the draft (or at least trying to) for several years now would definitely do it, if they thought they were on to something.

[ace3113]

Well, Stroman could be in the MLB this year providing value... Beede might still be 4 or 5 years away before he even starts contributing.

 

Exactly. Shipley would also have been here faster than Bickford. His stuff is arguably as good as Stroman's and he's got number 2 starter upside. I don't know why we didn't just take him. I know next year's draft is very good, but what a waste of resources scouting and cross checking this year, and flying out to see this kid just to punt a pick.

[jays_fever]

If he isnt signing because he wants more than 2 million, you almost hope he breaks his arm or something. The greed in some ( not saying him specifically) of these kids is laughable.

[sachmo55]

If he isnt signing because he wants more than 2 million, you almost hope he breaks his arm or something. The greed in some ( not saying him specifically) of these kids is laughable.

 

If every drafted player offered a sizable sum of money were to not turn it down, where would the players ever get negotiating leverage?

[sachmo55]

If he isnt signing because he wants more than 2 million, you almost hope he breaks his arm or something. The greed in some ( not saying him specifically) of these kids is laughable.

 

Also, this reminded me of the story of Matt Harrington, which I think gives an idea of the pressure on the players from both their agents and the players union.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/story?page=090423/harrington

 

In August, two months after the draft and after numerous offers and counteroffers between Tanzer and the Rockies, Harrington was finally offered $4.9 million, but there were conditions: The offer was no longer a bonus but instead a salary to be spread out over eight years, plus Matt had to forgo three years of arbitration. According to the Harringtons, they were pressured by Tanzer not to take the deal, not only because the overall value of the offer was far less than they were looking for but also because it would have set a bad precedent for future players. Tanzer even got players' union chief operating officer Gene Orza on the phone. The Harringtons say Orza told them it was a bad deal. Orza says he doesn't remember the specifics of the conversation but acknowledges he would never advise anyone to sign a contract like that.

 

Because they weren't savvy and trusted Tanzer, who assured them the Rockies had everything to lose by not signing their first-round pick, the Harringtons rejected the $4.9 million offer. "I was told, 'They'll never not sign you. They'll never not sign you,'" Matt says, "Well, obviously that wasn't true."

[Terminator]

I'll withhold opinion until I see what happens with Tellez and Brentz. I was very much in favour of letting Bickford walk if he wanted overslot money that would cost us one of the two mentioned. If we don't get them I don't get it at all. Now the question is, with what was really a reach for the 10th pick...why didn't we have a pre-draft deal in place (against rules...blah blah blah) either Bickford was a strategy or a bad pick.

 

Agreed. And it's sounding like Brentz may walk according to the latest from Jim Callis:

 

"Starting to sound like #BlueJays won't get 11th-rder Jake Brentz (2nd/3rd-rd talent) done either. May spend about $2 mil total on #mlbdraft." -from his Twitter

[theblujay]

Exactly. Simply retarded from the get go. Shipley's upside is as a number 2 starter (worst case number 3/4), and he'll be ready within a year-and-a-half to two years. Bickford could be a number 1 starter or a reliever (depending on how his secondaries come along) but it will take at least 4-5 years to find out which. Look how well Stroman's doing and Shipleys stuff is at least as good as Stroman's. I realize next year's draft is very good, but our strategy in this draft was just idiotic. I'm reasonably certain that half the members of this board could have conducted a better draft than Brian Parker did. I'm hoping we don't get any of Brentz, Bickford, or Tellez to sign, so that this front office looks even more like the clown show that they've been this year. Clear these bums out!

 

Money quote here from our "brilliant" scouting director, Brian Parker, about Bickford.

 

 

 

Gee, you'd think you would want to talk to your potential first round pick more than "briefly" moron. lol

 

 

I still don't see any way picking Bickford over Shipley made sense unless there is something we don't know about Shipley. Even if we signed him, Bickford's much further away and much riskier than Shipley. AA's 1st round picks have been pretty bad so far.

[Howard Roark]

The consensus on this forum (technically the old Blue jay forum) before the start of the season was that AA was a great, savvy GM. He exploited the system and other teams.

 

And of course, after a disaster of a season that can only get worse, he's the worst GM in the league.

 

People are just bandwagoning on him as if he's the flavor of the month.

 

Not really. Speaking for myself, my regard for AA's competence collapsed when he completely abandoned his previously stated philosophy of building a club from the ground up, concentrating on maintaining a strong farm, developing from within and adding key FA's only when the core was ready to go. This past offseason was a joke, and many here knew it. The guy morphed into Bryan f***ing Colangelo, FFS.

 

He started out claiming he wanted to set us up for perpetual contention. He abandoned that, and now we have, at best, a 2 year window after this season with the oldest roster in MLB and no farm. Dude f***ed us royally.

[Flashman]

If every drafted player offered a sizable sum of money were to not turn it down, where would the players ever get negotiating leverage?

 

Bit of a straw man, that. I don't think jays_fever was saying that every player should accept a predetermined amount of money. But we have seen kids turn down life-changing sums of money, as well as the opportunity to get on with their development as ball players, only to find that decision bites them in the ass. It just seems nuts to risk losing that entire package by quibbling over a small percentage of dollars.

[ace3113]

Double post. Edited July 12, 2013 by ace3113

[KingKat]

Noah Syndergaard. Drafted out of High school........ panning out.

Aaron Sanchez. Drafted out of High school............. panning out.

Justin Nicolino drafted out of high school............... panning out.

 

Tyler Beede. Though not signed, looks to be a top round selection next year.

 

If there is one thing I wouldn't stop... it's drafting high school guys.

 

Yes there are success stories but the Jays drafted a lot of guys to achieve that success. They are not hitting on a higher percentage of high school pitchers than other teams. They just drafted a s*** ton of them is all. The fact that they have had more success with high school pitchers than with other players is more a reflection of a complete inability to develop anyone else than a vindication of this attrition heavy strategy.

[ace3113]

Jim Callis says it unlikely we get Brentz now

 

Great strategy Brian "freaking" Parker. LOL

[sachmo55]

Bit of a straw man, that. I don't think jays_fever was saying that every player should accept a predetermined amount of money. But we have seen kids turn down life-changing sums of money, as well as the opportunity to get on with their development as ball players, only to find that decision bites them in the ass. It just seems nuts to risk losing that entire package by quibbling over a small percentage of dollars.

 

It was a bit of a strawman, but i guess ive seen ppl say the similar things and tried to address them.

 

But i guess my quip revolves are the ideas of:

- where is the line between enough money & being taken advantage of by the organization?

- how much influence does an agent/players union have? (See my quote from the matt harrington story)

[OtisNixonFan]

Jim Callis says it unlikely we get Brentz now

Someone get Lauer on the f***ing phone. Tellez/Lauer would somewhat salvage this clusterf*** of a draft.

[Laika]

How does one even rise to the upper ranks of an MLB front office without being a critical thinker?

 

The Blue Jays FO is fundamentally flawed. They didn't pass the first checkpoint - hire smart people.

[John_Havok]

[John_Havok]

And a little more rain on the parade...

 

[ace3113]

Someone get Lauer on the f***ing phone. Tellez/Lauer would somewhat salvage this clusterf*** of a draft.

 

This whole year has been garbage. Watching the Rangers and Cubs signing a bunch of the top IFAs, watching the Rays and Red Sox having very good drafts. Oy.

#LOLTHISTEAM

[Flashman]

- where is the line between enough money & being taken advantage of by the organization?

 

IMO it is completely subjective. For example, the Jays signed some players for a $1000 signing bonus. They had no leverage, so to speak, but were obviously glad to take the opportunity for a career in baseball. Other players might dearly want the college experience and so hold out for a can't-resist amount of money. It all depends on circumstances. I just think if we're talking about a player wanting $4m and the organisation holding firm at $3.5m, then it's nuts to gamble with your future. Again, IMO, I think that's where greed can come in. I'm not sure how else it could be described when we're talking about that level of money.

 

- how much influence does an agent/players union have? (See my quote from the matt harrington story)

 

As much or little as the player allows, really. Ultimately they have the free will to sign whatever deal they want (I'm assuming?)

[ace3113]

Small sample of course but:

 

Braden Shipley (LOW A - NWL): 2gs 2.25era 4ip 2h 1bb 6so

[mitchf]

 

And a little more rain on the parade...

 

This is awesome.

 

I love you AA.

[theblujay]

This whole year has been garbage. Watching the Rangers and Cubs signing a bunch of the top IFAs, watching the Rays and Red Sox having very good drafts. Oy.

#LOLTHISTEAM

 

The only other team that has been as bad as the Jays at a lot of things for last couple decades is the Pirates. And they're one of the best teams this year with some good prospects.

[Caper]

This whole year has been garbage. Watching the Rangers and Cubs signing a bunch of the top IFAs, watching the Rays and Red Sox having very good drafts. Oy.

#LOLTHISTEAM

 

It wasn't a good draft because we didn't sign an 18th or 30th rounder?

 

Or was it because we punted away this years pick for a better opportunity next year?

[Caper]

The only other team that has been as bad as the Jays at a lot of things for last couple decades is the Pirates. And they're one of the best teams this year with some good prospects.

 

 

The Jays have been a good team the past 2 decades... for the most part. It just so happens they are in toughest division in sports.

[Caper]

How does one even rise to the upper ranks of an MLB front office without being a critical thinker?

 

The Blue Jays FO is fundamentally flawed. They didn't pass the first checkpoint - hire smart people.

 

 

Can you critical think? 11 in a deep draft = better then 10 in a weak draft..... does that take a critical thinker to wrap your head around?

 

I'm sure they had a few names in mind that they would hope they fall... they didn't... so they went with plan B... which is punt to a deeper draft next year... a very good plan IMO.

[ReturnOfTheYeti]

The Jays have been a good team the past 2 decades... for the most part. It just so happens they are in toughest division in sports.

 

No - they have been a .500 team and a sub .500 team. Tough division or not, the team just hasn't been good enough. Period.