The Prospect/Minor Leagues Thread

[G-Snarls]

Riccardi was good at managing the MLB roster, AA with scouting and getting minor league talent. Would be nice if we could have someone that could do both.

 

They COULD have worked together longer, perhaps successfully.

[bendera3]

They COULD have worked together longer, perhaps successfully.

 

Forgive me if I'm wrong but wasn't the problem with JPR that he drafted too conservatively (Moneyball) and then sold much of the farm to get Major League players (higher dollars)?

[glory]

Forgive me if I'm wrong but wasn't the problem with JPR that he drafted too conservatively (Moneyball) and then sold much of the farm to get Major League players (higher dollars)?

 

I think it was the opposite. He held on to his prospects (mainly because they didn't have much value to other teams) and paid top dollar via free agency. Off the top of my head, the only players he drafted that he traded for immediate help were Dave Bush, Zach Jackson, and Adam Peterson. He practically held on to everyone else until they either contributed (Hill, Lind, Marcum, Romero, Janssen, Litsch, to some extent Snider, etc) or washed away completely (Adams, Purcey, etc).

 

I have said before, Ricciardi's biggest weakness was drafting. Other than that, he knew team building. He valued OBP, pitching, and defense. He didn't trade his farm system for immediate help (Bush aside). He overpaid to get free agents instead of overpaying in prospects/assets. Give that man an actual farm system (in other words, give him absolutely no control over amateur scouting) and he'd be a great GM.

[DuckDuckGose]

Forgive me if I'm wrong but wasn't the problem with JPR that he drafted too conservatively (Moneyball) and then sold much of the farm to get Major League players (higher dollars)?

 

The 1st part is correct, JPR drafted very conservatively but he did make some high upside picks (Snider comes to mind). He knew that to make it work in TO you had to blend youth (and cheap production) with veteran players and that it would be a challenge to recruit top FA's to Toronto. His focus was on not missing on a draft pick, I think he learned that low risk guys are still risky. The Mets have had a pretty solid draft record since he got there and I think it has something to do with his experience and failures in Toronto.

[DuckDuckGose]

They COULD have worked together longer, perhaps successfully.

 

I think AA can still be a successful GM. He needs a better president than Beeston running the show.

[SJE32]

Several of these pitchers will probably return to Florida for some work in the Instructional League. Borucki should be in Lansing next spring. Thoughts on Connor Greene as a possibility. Improved over the summer, maybe not enough

[KingKat]

The 1st part is correct, JPR drafted very conservatively but he did make some high upside picks (Snider comes to mind). He knew that to make it work in TO you had to blend youth (and cheap production) with veteran players and that it would be a challenge to recruit top FA's to Toronto. His focus was on not missing on a draft pick, I think he learned that low risk guys are still risky. The Mets have had a pretty solid draft record since he got there and I think it has something to do with his experience and failures in Toronto.

 

JPR never drafted above slot. That wasn't necessarily a strategy so much as a reflection of the economic situation. That being said JPR pitched himself as someone who could be so succesful with a cost effective strategy that his budget wouldn't handicap him in any way. He changed his tune after awhile and embraced spend to win althoug he wan't financially aggressive at the draft until Paxton and it's not clear whether that was really his pick at all. He was basically a figurehead at that point.

[DuckDuckGose]

Several of these pitchers will probably return to Florida for some work in the Instructional League. Borucki should be in Lansing next spring. Thoughts on Connor Greene as a possibility. Improved over the summer, maybe not enough

 

Definitely a possibility.

[DuckDuckGose]

JPR never drafted above slot. That wasn't necessarily a strategy so much as a reflection of the economic situation. That being said JPR pitched himself as someone who could be so succesful with a cost effective strategy that his budget wouldn't handicap him in any way. He changed his tune after awhile and embraced spend to win althoug he wan't financially aggressive at the draft until Paxton and it's not clear whether that was really his pick at all. He was basically a figurehead at that point.

 

Very true. Slot is a little deceiving though as I imagine he didn't have the budget to go above slot. IMO his biggest downfall was his infatuation with low upside college players. Adams, Cooper, Romero (only b/c Tulo), Purcey, Jackson were all pretty brutal selections even at the time.

[KingKat]

Very true. Slot is a little deceiving though as I imagine he didn't have the budget to go above slot. IMO his biggest downfall was his infatuation with low upside college players. Adams, Cooper, Romero (only b/c Tulo), Purcey, Jackson were all pretty brutal selections even at the time.

 

I wonder if there were a lot of viable alternatives that would have signed under slot? I'll given him some credit for having one hand tied behind his back even though it was a handicap he embraced.

[glory]

I wonder if there were a lot of viable alternatives that would have signed under slot? I'll given him some credit for having one hand tied behind his back even though it was a handicap he embraced.

 

Wasn't Paul Godfrey against going overslot? I know I read that somewhere.

 

The team didn't begin to start going overslot until Beeston came in.

[burlingtonbandit]

Apparently the reason the Jays never went overslot was because the Commish Office gave the Jays a $5 million cheque each year as a currency equivalent in a wink wink deal they would not go overslot for anyone.

 

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/baseball/beeston-prepared-to-pay-the-price-for-success/article786321/

[DuckDuckGose]

I wonder if there were a lot of viable alternatives that would have signed under slot? I'll given him some credit for having one hand tied behind his back even though it was a handicap he embraced.

 

I think he chose to divert amateur $ to the big league payroll and signed a bunch of FA to stay moderately competitive. They had some good teams they just happened to play against two AL East juggernauts for his tenure in TO. All that being said JPR wasn't the answer here, he never appreciated the market and treated it as small.

 

I wish Gillick would come back and run the club as president w/ AA as his minion.

[burlingtonbandit]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/farm-report-big-year-for-blue-jays-system/

 

Semi-interesting read, LaCava gives brief end of the year reports from prospects at each level of the system.

 

The part I found most interesting is where they think Barreto can stick at SS.

[burlingtonbandit]

You play him at SS as long as you can. The move to second base isn't that difficult. Who cares about minor league fielding. Let them play through mistakes. Once they get up here you make the choice of what he is. I don't like when teams move guys around in A ball. Unless the guy is a complete butcher or utillity guy you don't do it.

 

I agree, but the comment sounded like he was a lot better at SS than what the Jays thought he would be.

 

They are going to have a hard time having all these guys play SS since you have Urena, Barreto and Lugo, also to lesser extent Guidino. If Lugo doesn't deserve a promotion and Barreto does, what do you do?

[Mikeleelop]

I agree, but the comment sounded like he was a lot better at SS than what the Jays thought he would be.

 

They are going to have a hard time having all these guys play SS since you have Urena, Barreto and Lugo, also to lesser extent Guidino. If Lugo doesn't deserve a promotion and Barreto does, what do you do?

 

Looks like barreto is going to be pushing hard to pass Lugo. His performance seems to dictate that

[burlingtonbandit]

Looks like barreto is going to be pushing hard to pass Lugo. His performance seems to dictate that

 

Agreed. I can't see Lugo turning into anything. Doesn't walk nearly enough and will most likely be moved to 3rd base.

 

This is just an opinion but I wonder if there are any relatively successful MLB position players that have struggled to put up an OPS of .700 in full season A ball.

[GNick49]

Vancouver had a lot of interesting prospects this season

[Olerud363]

Agreed. I can't see Lugo turning into anything. Doesn't walk nearly enough and will most likely be moved to 3rd base.

 

This is just an opinion but I wonder if there are any relatively successful MLB position players that have struggled to put up an OPS of .700 in full season A ball.

 

It happens way more often then you would think....

 

Alex Rios had a .650 OPS in A-ball as a 20 year old and has had many good mlb seasons (some bad too obviously_

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=rios--001ale

 

Eric Hosmer had a .688 OPS over a/a+ and is "relatively" successful

[Angrioter]

It happens way more often then you would think....

 

Alex Rios had a .650 OPS in A-ball as a 20 year old and has had many good mlb seasons (some bad too obviously_

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=rios--001ale

 

Eric Hosmer had a .688 OPS over a/a+ and is "relatively" successful

 

Hosmer is a semi-bust. He's James Loney.

[Atothe]

Hosmer is a semi-bust. He's James Loney.

 

James loney is better. Lmao. Barreto should be priority #1 all the way through the minors. Best position player

[burlingtonbandit]

James loney is better. Lmao. Barreto should be priority #1 all the way through the minors. Best position player

 

Agreed. Is Urena more of value than Lugo?

[43211234]

Agreed. Is Urena more of value than Lugo?

 

I would say so.

[DuckDuckGose]

Agreed. Is Urena more of value than Lugo?

 

IMO for IF prospects it goes Barreto > Nay > Urena > Lugo > Burns > Thon sure I'm missing someone.

[Sorrow]

IMO for IF prospects it goes Barreto > Nay > Urena > Lugo > Burns > Thon sure I'm missing someone.

 

Pentecost, Nessy, Jensen if you include catchers for IF. Matt Dean is intriguing as well, has insane bat speed.

[bendera3]

IMO for IF prospects it goes Barreto > Nay > Urena > Lugo > Burns > Thon sure I'm missing someone.

 

Does anyone here think Thon is even of minimal value anymore? While I haven't seen him play just based on his stats he seems to lack hitting ability.

[DuckDuckGose]

Pentecost, Nessy, Jensen if you include catchers for IF. Matt Dean is intriguing as well, has insane bat speed.

 

Very true!

 

Barreto > Pentecost > Nay > Urena > Dean > Tellez > Nessy > Jansen > Lugo > Jimenez > Burns > Thon

[DuckDuckGose]

Does anyone here think Thon is even of minimal value anymore? While I haven't seen him play just based on his stats he seems to lack hitting ability.

 

No value but still a chance to have a MLB career.

[Frenchsoup]

James loney is better. Lmao. Barreto should be priority #1 all the way through the minors. Best position player

 

What do you mean priority #1?

[Atothe]

What do you mean priority #1?

 

At the shortstop position