glory

Yeah I think that’s a possibility once the FA SP market starts to dwindle down and teams looking for pitching are open to trades. I just think there needs to be more control on the player(s) coming back, even if that player is not established yet. The Jays don’t have expendable SP depth. This type of trade would be done entirely because of the fractured relationship, so make sure the trade makes sense short and long term. A young controllable 3B prospect who hasn’t established himself yet but has some upside combined with a #6 starter with options would be a perfectly reasonable trade return. Again that’s only if they feel the relationship is too fractured to continue. If it’s not, then holding on to Manoah and seeing if he’s fixable is probably the better move.

It appears that way. I guess another option is to use Horowitz at DH and sign Chapman if he's accepting a reduced rate, but I don't think they go that route. If Joc prefers playing on the West Coast as it was speculated in the Rosenthal article, then that really leaves Soler as the option.

Yeah, Manoah makes the league minimum for one more year and the Jays need SP depth. I personally don't think he's going to bounce back, but there's still a chance he does, and the risk involved is so minimal ($750k or whatever) that the return would have to at least be a controllable piece(s). Kim is not Soto. The question is whether Manoah and the FO's relationship is strained enough that they just want to cut bait to avoid the headache in the event that he has to start the year in AAA. At this rate if they aren't getting a controllable piece that fills a position of need in return for him, then just keep him and hope he either bounces back or gracefully accepts a AAA stint.

Donnie Baseball telling Vlad to sacrifice contact for power seems like wishful thinking, but who knows.

Yeah, this FO hasn't had much success with developing their own pitching, but over the last few years the track record with pitchers they have brought in either via signing or trade is pretty good. Whether Rodriguez turns out to be a SP, RP, or bust remains to be seen, but let's see what the Jays can do with his arsenal.

I’m expecting a Manoah trade before ST as well. This is not a guy who is going to go to AAA without kicking and screaming, and the Jays may not want the headache. What they get back is the question, likely wouldn’t be much. An equally disappointing infielder who could cover an above average 3B and still has some upside/control would probably be a decent lateral move.

Yeah the difference in his Savant page from 2021-22 to 2023 is crazy. Best case you can chalk that up to an injury or bad conditioning so maybe he can rebound, but I don't think it's certain that he does, or even comes close. On top of that, the pitch clock with runners on is going from 20 to 18 so it's going to be an even bigger test to his endurance/conditioning. Adding another starter is probably a good idea, although I guess someone like Rodriguez who can act as a swing man/multi inning reliever is also a good option since Tiedemann is likely going to be on an innings limit as well so you can piggyback (assuming Manoah doesn't rebound).

From Ken Rosenthal:

Signing Adames (for example) and trading Bo for 2-3 players that could help in other areas is probably the best way to try to keep the competitive window open beyond 2025. Although I'm not sure how much value Bo with 1 year of control left would have. I was kinda hoping they'd trade Bo this winter and then figure out a way to add an Adames or Kim in a separate trade to mitigate some of the loss at short, but that's a lot of moving parts.

The team likely wants to maintain the defense from last season as much as they can, and unfortunately that means IKF is probably going to get 500 PA between 3B and wherever else they play him. I'm trying to warm up to that signing, or look on any bright side I can, but I really don't see it. I hope he proves me wrong.

Both would have pros and cons. Soler would be playing everyday so there's no need for a platoon mate for him. On the flip side, if he's in line for a multi year deal as speculated, then he would clog up DH on a team that likely needs some fluidity there with Vlad and Springer. Joc mashes RHP and there are more RHP than LHP, so he'd have great value there, but then you need to strictly platoon him, which means adding a 2nd player since no one on the Jays currently can fill that role (assuming Schneider is starting at 2B, which he should at this point). If there's a scenario late in a game where Joc is due up and has to be pinch hit for Espinal against a LHP (and you know s*** like that will happen), then it becomes less desirable. If he's platooning with Jansen, then that's a different story, but the Jays in the past have been a bit cautious doing the two catcher lineup too often. Ultimately, I'd be fine with either one. I'd probably lean towards Soler, acknowledging that he might be the riskier player in general, but the Jays absolutely need power and Soler even at his worst is a .200 ISO guy, so he might be the better fit.

Yeah in this FA market it’s either Soler or Joc as the best DH fits, IMO. Soler can probably be league average-ish against RHP while mashing lefties so he won’t need to be platooned, while Joc would have to be, so maybe that’s a consideration here. There’s no perfect answer in the FA market but Soler is probably the best combination power + upside. The Jays badly need power in the lineup.

I think a two year deal is very likely for Vlad. Even if he has a repeat of 2023, I don’t think they’d non tender him, so might as well get cost certainty for 2025. He could have a 5.0 WAR or 0.5 WAR next season and neither scenario would be shocking. That’s the frustrating part.

Stroman signs with the Yankees. Terms seem to be 2/37 with a 3rd year option. That’s a steal for the Yankees.

I think the player Teoscar hurt most was Soler. Everyone else was likely to get a 1 year deal anyway (JDM, Hoskins, Joc, Pham, etc). Although it's possible those players want more than 1 year and that's the hold up. I agree, just wait out the market. Someone is going to settle for less. It won't be a Boras client, so JDM/Hoskins are probably out, but Soler/Joc is a strong possibility.

Bichette doesn’t want one so he’s out. Vlad wants one but may or may not be worth giving one to, it really depends on the years/term. Jansen I think should have been done a year ago. Kirk and Manoah I would avoid for obvious reasons. Biggio is a clear no. Teoscar you could have argued between 2019-21 was a candidate. Yeah, not a Braves situation by any means in terms of talent, so it’s likely not a bad thing overall. But the main point stands, with no extensions to young players and a bottom half of the league farm system, I’m not really sure what the direction is.

It’s wild that in 8 years on the job there hasn’t been one extension given to a homegrown or developed talent. I think the only ones were given to Grichuk and Berrios, both acquired via trade when they were in their arb years close to free agency. That strategy would be somewhat understandable if they were churning out prospects at a high level to fill any vacancies internally but the farm system is lagging behind as well. It is hard to see the direction here.

Jays and Jansen have settled at $5.2m according to Robert Murray.

Admittedly I skimmed it, but yeah I disagree with that part completely. Varsho in LF is not an optimal use of existing assets. Varsho had the worst offensive season of his pro career and was still a 2 WAR player playing mostly in LF. Put him in CF with anything close to a league average bat, and he's a significant asset. KK is too similar/redundant. They should have one or the other, not both. If they add a more offensive LF and KK is used as a 4th OF, then it becomes a much better move.

I'm not sure what half of that meant, but do agree that signing KK when you already have Varsho, and signing IKF period (presumably to start a large chunk of games at 3B) is not the best use of resources.

Soler's statcast/expected numbers from 2023 were all really good, but kinda hard to ignore 2021-22 when he was basically replacement level with a league average bat. If you believe his 2023 numbers are sustainable then he'd be fine as a DH option, but there's massive risk there because the floor probably isn't very high. My guess is the Jays end up with Joc as he has the same statcast redness without the long term investment, although he'll have to be platooned.

If the Jays are content with running IKF at 3B, then I think they really need to add two bats and push Kiermaier to more of a 4th OF role, which will likely benefit his health/body and still give him 350-450 PA. He even said himself that there was virtually no interest in him this winter aside from the Jays despite him coming off a really good season, so it's not like he needs to play everyday for his next contract. This is what he is. Take the hit defensively and get someone like Teoscar (assuming he's willing to sign a shorter term deal) and then one of the DH options.

Michael Brantley is retiring apparently. I say apparently because the source is Morosi, so he could be signing with a big league team as I type this.

The only real way to avoid being a "window" team is to have players develop through the system that are average to above average regulars (preferably better than that) so the team doesn't have to continue to pour money into filling big league holes. Short term vets in the absence of prospects is fine but there needs to be an org wide priority to develop talent from the minors to actually use at the big league level, and not just as trade capital. It was easy to do that in 2018-2020 because there were no expectations, but obviously as a team is deeper into their competitive window it gets harder to trust prospects vs big league vets. The Jays have to show they trust their development process to develop talent internally, otherwise it will be a short window followed by a 2017-18 redux (where they want to compete but aren't anywhere near good enough) after 2025. I have no idea what to expect from Schneider, Roden, Barger, Martinez, Jimenez, Horowitz, and Palmegiani long term. Either way, those guys are either already in the bigs (Schneider) or figure to play a chunk of 2024 in AAA, so they are the closest to contributing to the big league roster. The Jays need to figure out how to turn some of those position player prospects into big league contributors. Schneider may or may not be a 2-3 WAR player moving forward, but they have to give him a real shot. My concern as I mentioned earlier is that I'm not sure the Jays have shown a willingness to do that, and there's also the possibility that those prospects aren't good enough to be given a real shot. We have to hope a few of them are. The sad thing is, Vlad/Bo are both flawed enough to where the Jays could lose both and still contend if they were a better development team. But losing both of them and not having a strong development pipeline is going to make it a lot more difficult.

The biggest issue for me, and we will see if that continues in 2024, is the team's reluctance to even play their prospects. Davis Schneider needed to hit like roided up Barry Bonds in August in order for the team to reluctantly start him consistently, and once he fell back down to earth, the team was licking their chops to bench him again. The team preferred a completely broken Alek Manoah start games for them rather than giving someone like Bowden Francis a chance. Sometimes teams luck into useful prospects but you have to play them in order to get that value. Whether you like the system or not, they are going to have to develop their own talent at some point if they want a shot at sustainable contention beyond 2025.