BTS
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Do we disagree that often?
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Do you think Shapiro is forcing this team into rebuild mode?
BTS replied to GodDonaldson's topic in Toronto Blue Jays Talk
Yeah. He's a year into his plan to assemble the foundation for a team that can compete perpetually. Accrue as many wins in the present while also assembling farm talent and avoiding rich long-term commitments to players in their in the decline years. There seems to be three main keys to the plan: 1. Build a pipeline of farm talent and keep it - McGuire and Ramirez added via trade - Gurriel added via IFA, as well as several lesser pieces - guys like Zeuch and Bichette in the 2016 draft, and likely three more 1st round picks in 2017 - only very low-end guys given up via trade: Sean Ratcliffe, Hansel Rodriguez, Guadalupe Chavez, Colton Turner 2. Avoid expensive commitments to ageing vets - Price, Encarnacion, and likely Bautista all allowed to walk - nobody with the exception of Gurriel (only 23 years old) acquired with longer than a 3-year financial commitment 3. Supplement the roster with mid-to-low level value free agent signings - Estrada 2/26 - Happ 3/36 - Morales 3/33 - Pearce 2/12 Do everything possible to keep AA's window open, while at the same time laying the foundation for a team that doesn't need a window. -
They're a lot of fun. Hopefully the fans show up and they're able to keep it together for a few years. Lost in this debate on our end is that this is a great signing for Cleveland. Perfect fit.
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Yeah, I've read that. It doesn't answer my question.
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Are we even sure that a firm 4/80 with no options was on the table? Have the details of the reported offer been confirmed that specifically?
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You're making a complex situation out to be black and white. Edwin was almost certainly provided with an honest assessment of the situation, as well as the risks involved and he opted to role the dice. There's nothing suggesting Kinzer did a bad job here.
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Well, yeah that move was awful. I don't think it's had any impact on any decisions made though. There's like 30M left in the budget (reportedly).
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The most likely situation, by far, is that Kinzer presented the offer to Edwin, told him it was too early to know if he could do better, and asked Edwin if he wanted to accept now or wait it out. Painting the agent as a villain in this is just looking for a villain to blame because people are upset that Edwin is gone. There's no reason at all to assume that Edwin was misled.
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Do you think Shapiro is forcing this team into rebuild mode?
BTS replied to GodDonaldson's topic in Toronto Blue Jays Talk
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I don't think any of us have nearly enough information to evaluate how good an agent he is.
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I don't really know why you'd assume incompetence from Kinzer instead of assuming he had a decent handle on the situation and presented the facts to Edwin honestly and let him make up his mind.
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ECJF has become a Sportsnet comments level casual lol
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The call was Edwin's, not Kinzer's. Edwin made his peace with leaving when he declined the offer. He was willing to change cities to make sure that there was nothing better on the market, which is likely all it will cost him.
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I don't think anyone really has anything to hang their head over here. Edwin understandably decided to decline 4/80 so he could test the market. He ends up with 3/65 guaranteed, and a decent chance to get the 4/80 that was originally on the table. In the end, he'll get similar money at the cost of changing addresses, but to a very good and well-managed Cleveland team. Toronto made what looks like a fair offer in free agency, and it was rejected. They didn't want to wait on Edwin, so they secured what they think is a player who can replace a lot of what Edwin was going to bring, at half the cost. They go from Edwin to Morales + ~$32M over three years + 1st round pick. I think they're satisfied with that.
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There it is. 3/65 guarantee.
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This is a pretty huge deal for a 34-year old 1B/DH.
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He might actually come out ahead. Overall, he really didn't get seriously burned by declining the reported 4/80 offer. Do we know for sure that that offer didn't include a team option?
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Sounds like he has a 3/65 guarantee (5M buyout on the 4th year). Not far off from 4/80
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Still willing to move Ass Dribble in deal for SP.
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Nope. Not a Pompey kind of guy.
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You bring this type of thing up often when people throw guesses on the long-term value of a contract. I think you understand that there's no way of knowing how individual teams will account for their current spot on the win curve, or how they'll value 2020 wins relative to 2017 wins. Everyone else in the conversation understands that it's all back of napkin math: estimates with known unknowns that facilitate conversation. You pop in from time to time and snarkily point out what everyone knows: that this is all rough math for discussion purposes. You're very much the annoying pedant in a lecture that won't shut the f*** up about minutiae.
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He's making the point that we're estimating that teams will be willing to pay $10.5M per 2020 win in 2019, but might not be willing to invest $10.5M per 2020 win in 2017. Given that everyone but RJF seems to understand that these discussions are based on rough models that represent our best guesses at how much value the team places on a win, and thus have very big error bars, it's not an interesting point to make. Yet another example of RJF trying to sound smart while actually coming across as an idiot and adding nothing relevant to the conversation. He'll complete the cycle next time he whines about the level of discourse on the forum while adding nothing but s*** posts himself.
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but I love objectifying women and am just not interested in objectifying men
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The way the sentence was worded implied that Dermody, with his flow from the left side, reminded him of Scott Downs.
