Jays acquire Jose Soriano

[Spanky__99]

On 8/4/2026 at 1:22 AM, jaysblue said:

Just look at the numbers already this season between Detmers and Soriano.

Detmers already about 1 full fWAR above Soriano in the same amount of innings this season. Detmers also comes with a better K/9 (10.44), BB/9 (2.74) and FIP (3.35) over Soriano (9.29), (4.17), and (3.79). 

Regardless, I'm also happy with acquiring Soriano and like I said previously, if he could lower the BB/9 here and pitching under Pete Walker, he could move to the next level and perhaps be a 4+ WAR arm for the Jays. 

I just think Detmers comes with more upside - like's he's capable of possibly putting up a Jesus Luzardo 2025 type season (5+ WAR season) with his stuff and strikeout ability. 

 

Now look at their RA9 WAR, Soriano's a full 1 WAR better, he also has a better WPA... fWAR's a good tool but you also have to look at other Metrics than just K's, he also keeps the ball in the park and the fit with this team's framing and defense, he'll get better results. The BB's will be mitigated by his GB rate and defense, and mitigated by our elite framing stealing strikes, perfect fit. Fella. 

[Sorrow]

5 hours ago, Spanky__99 said:

Now look at their RA9 WAR, Soriano's a full 1 WAR better, he also has a better WPA... fWAR's a good tool but you also have to look at other Metrics than just K's, he also keeps the ball in the park and the fit with this team's framing and defense, he'll get better results. The BB's will be mitigated by his GB rate and defense, and mitigated by our elite framing stealing strikes, perfect fit. Fella. 

I was always under the impression that fWAR for pitchers is better for future predictions on performance based on what they can control but the better WAR for actual performance was bWAR or RA9-WAR. I don’t use bWAR as I like everything in one place and it doesn’t factor in catcher framing.

[Masterbather]

I think Detmers is a more polished pitcher right now, but Soriano might have the higher ceiling. 

It would be nice to have a lefty in the rotation. But it's also nice to have an extreme ground ball pitcher in the American League East and playoffs in general (Reid has done a good job of keeping the ball in the ballpark In fairness)

I'm happy with the acquisition. I won't split hairs. 

[Spanky__99]

5 hours ago, Sorrow said:

I was always under the impression that fWAR for pitchers is better for future predictions on performance based on what they can control but the better WAR for actual performance was bWAR or RA9-WAR. I don’t use bWAR as I like everything in one place and it doesn’t factor in catcher framing.

That's correct and essentially what I'm saying here, with our defense and framing the numbers should get better as a whole. I don't think Detmers is better than him basically, and Soriano fits better with this club. 

[Forever92]

Nimmala could be next Orelvis. Parker is SS of future. Soriano good mid rotation pitcher.

[John_Havok]

1 hour ago, Forever92 said:

Nimmala could be next Orelvis. Parker is SS of future. Soriano good mid rotation pitcher.

Industry apparently sees Parker as a 3b by the time he gets to the big leagues.

[max silver]

20 hours ago, Spanky__99 said:

That's correct and essentially what I'm saying here, with our defense and framing the numbers should get better as a whole. I don't think Detmers is better than him basically, and Soriano fits better with this club. 

I think Detmers is likely more of a finished product with better present stuff and command but Soriano possesses more untapped upside.

[Olerud363.354]

4 hours ago, John_Havok said:

Industry apparently sees Parker as a 3b by the time he gets to the big leagues.

Always hate this vague stuff.  Bo Bichette wasn't an elite defensive short stop but held his own, neutral on defense.  He is at 3rd now but not a huge difference in bWAR defense.   Maybe his best fWAR defense season, but just by a bit.  Not really making a difference where he plays. 

Like does he have a problem like he can't make throws from short stop and would sale 30 balls a year in the stands?   Or he is just not an elite defensive player along the lines of Bo Bichette?  And you could put him at short on the right team, or 3rd, depending....

[Olerud363.354]

Like is Jo Jo ...    

1. Not great defensively but could play short if needed (Bichette)

2. Arm sucks would have to play second. 

3. Statue could only play third. 

4. Arm sucks and statue future DH. 

[Brownie19]

9 minutes ago, Olerud363.354 said:

Always hate this vague stuff.  Bo Bichette wasn't an elite defensive short stop but held his own, neutral on defense.  He is at 3rd now but not a huge difference in bWAR defense.   Maybe his best fWAR defense season, but just by a bit.  Not really making a difference where he plays. 

Like does he have a problem like he can't make throws from short stop and would sale 30 balls a year in the stands?   Or he is just not an elite defensive player along the lines of Bo Bichette?  And you could put him at short on the right team, or 3rd, depending....

Remember that age is playing a factor with Bo's defense.  If he played 3rd when he was 25, there's a possibility the defense might have been significantly better.  

If he played SS this year, there's a possibility he'd be much worse defensively than he's been at 3rd.  

Not that any of this matters.  I don't know the exact numbers on this, but I'd render a guess that over 50% of high school shortstops eventually move to another position - it's probably higher than that to be honest.  Claiming people think Parker won't reach the majors as a SS is a pretty safe bet.  Even if he were some 5'11, 175 lbs kid - the chances of him sticking at SS are relatively low.  The fact he's 6'2 200 lbs, who isn't know as a defensive wiz, simply increases the probability of moving off SS.

Could he be an outlier?  Sure - anyone could be an outlier.  The Jays will leave him at SS as long as possible, given how valuable that position is - but nobody should expect to see Parker playing SS at the ML level.

[max silver]

37 minutes ago, Olerud363.354 said:

Always hate this vague stuff.  Bo Bichette wasn't an elite defensive short stop but held his own, neutral on defense.  He is at 3rd now but not a huge difference in bWAR defense.   Maybe his best fWAR defense season, but just by a bit.  Not really making a difference where he plays. 

Like does he have a problem like he can't make throws from short stop and would sale 30 balls a year in the stands?   Or he is just not an elite defensive player along the lines of Bo Bichette?  And you could put him at short on the right team, or 3rd, depending....

I don't think you can discount the massive swing in Bo's defensive value from last season at short stop to this season at third base. He was -5.9 at short stop last season as compared to 4.4 at present at third base in only 2/3 of a full season. He's on track for the most valuable defensive season of his career at this point and there's a dramatic difference from last season to this season. 

[Olerud363.354]

4 minutes ago, max silver said:

I don't think you can discount the massive swing in Bo's defensive value from last season at short stop to this season at third base. He was -5.9 at short stop last season as compared to 4.4 at present at third base in only 2/3 of a full season. He's on track for the most valuable defensive season of his career at this point and there's a dramatic difference from last season to this season. 

That could be random variation though.   And actually his D per 162 was just as good in 2020 and 2024 as today. 

If a guy is a good defensive player they should score roughly the same at short or 3rd.  Roughly.  I think there are more hard plays at ss, so if you are a positive defender more opportunities to score points.   If you are a negative defender more opportunities to screw up.  But roughly the same. 

It's an old argument and the smart guys convinced me, so don't blame me, blame them.  Maybe they changed their mind since 2014. 

 

[max silver]

17 minutes ago, Olerud363.354 said:

That could be random variation though.   And actually his D per 162 was just as good in 2020 and 2024 as today. 

If a guy is a good defensive player they should score roughly the same at short or 3rd.  Roughly.  I think there are more hard plays at ss, so if you are a positive defender more opportunities to score points.   If you are a negative defender more opportunities to screw up.  But roughly the same. 

It's an old argument and the smart guys convinced me, so don't blame me, blame them.  Maybe they changed their mind since 2014. 

 

Bo's short stop numbers this season are largely in line with what he produced in 2022. His end of season defensive adjustment that season was 0.8 which is very poor for a full time short stop. I think he's likely declined physically to the point where he simply doesn't possess the necessary athleticism to have the necessary range to successfully play short stop anymore.

[metafour]

1 hour ago, Olerud363.354 said:

Bo Bichette wasn't an elite defensive short stop but held his own, neutral on defense. 

This is largely dependant on what you are looking at defensively.

For instance: the Statcast Fielding Run Value has him as the 3rd worst defender at SS from 2019 to 2025 at minus 27. That is being brought down by last season where he graded horrible at minus 10, but even without that season he is at minus 17 (ie: he was normally negative ~4-5 per season).

In reality: he played SS, but probably shouldn't have.

[Forever92]

9 hours ago, John_Havok said:

Industry apparently sees Parker as a 3b by the time he gets to the big leagues.

Vast majority of the time team getting proven major leaguers for prospects get better of the deal. Just look at players we've acquired for prospects? Varland, Berrios, Varsho, Robbie Ray.

Very rare those prospects turn into much. The 1 in 10 times they do look at the other 9 trades and gains there 

[Olerud363.354]

20 hours ago, metafour said:

In reality: he played SS, but probably shouldn't have.

You basically had Bichette/Chapman, Bichette/IKF, then Bichette/Clement

Would the team have been better if you switched them in any case?  Would the team have been better if you put Bichette at third and a defensive whiz (something like this years Andres Giminez) at short?  

In the Bichette/Chapman case they were like 7 WAR, and you probably reduce that a WAR or two by replacing Chapman with 2026 Giminez. 

The point I'm getting at is that there are some cases where Bichette as a 4 WAR offensive short stop is better then Giminez as a 2.5 WAR defensive whiz in terms of team WAR (it depends on the options for third).

So is Parker at Bichette level?  Whether he plays short depends on the talents on the team at the time.  Or is he at Pinango level, where it's just not an option because he'd throw balls into the stands, let routine grounders go into left field and piss the pitching staff and everyone else off. 

 

[John_Havok]

On 8/6/2026 at 2:25 PM, Forever92 said:

Vast majority of the time team getting proven major leaguers for prospects get better of the deal. Just look at players we've acquired for prospects? Varland, Berrios, Varsho, Robbie Ray.

Very rare those prospects turn into much. The 1 in 10 times they do look at the other 9 trades and gains there 

That has literally nothing to do with what i said, which was simply to point out Parker is being evaluated by the industy as a 3b in a few years, not a "SS of the future? as you had indicated.

Nothing more, nothing less.

[Forever92]

Soriano live arm but looks to erratic to be good #3 on champion team. More a great #4. 

Like to sign Ray for a year or two in off season. Bring in a #3 caliber southpaw.