Blue Jays-Dodgers World Series Game 5 Thread: Trey Yesavage vs Blake Snell

[max silver]

1 hour ago, Masterbather said:

It was clear that we needed somebody else, even after Bieber. Initially I had hoped that it could be Manoah. That was little more than a prayer that turned into a pipe dream quickly. Yesavage was it. Like he was IT! There was no else to turn. Amazing how that worked out.

I give them credit for having the balls to do it.

 

Man as potentially franchise altering the Yesavage saga has become, the post Tommy John surgery recovery arc for Manoah has been equally as tragic. He's literally a shell of his former self, as the velocity and stuff have regressed even further and he continues to be plagued by the walk. It's a damn shame that the guy's career ended up taking this turn as he was a legitimate top of the rotation arm when he was at his best.

[Jonn]

It’s still weird to me how the Manoah tenure ended. They must have really felt he wouldn’t recapture his form because they didn’t really need to DFA him. There was more obvious options.

it will be interesting to see if he makes the Braves rotation and how he performs.

[Olerud363.354]

Roberts says Ohtani might play outfield.  Might pitch in relief.  Might open.  (game 7 which perhaps needs to be stopped to prevent such nonsense)...  or maybe game 6 too. 

What are the rules on this.  Game 6 I assume nothing too crazy.   But game 7.  He is in outfield can he come in to pitch occasionally then go back to outfield and like have a few batters scatterred over game?  Probably nonsense because he wouldn't warm up, has never played the outfield and it would be weird pitching to a couple batters, resting in the outfield for a couple of innings then more... but... can they do this if they want to get creative?  Have him open innings.  Have him pitch against middle of order only.  Then back next time Vlad comes up.  If he gets guys out lesser pitcher finished inning.  Have him come in if a jam... I don't know.  What are the limits?  I guess just it would be dumb and wouldn't work because Vlad would homer off him and the other pitchers like Glasnow/Snell are just as good ... and they can still get Ohtani in for normal inning or two without weird in and out.   

[SeranthonySantander]

Ohtani can only stay in the game if he starts.  He can’t go relief and come out and keep hitting as DH.  I think they can put him relief then move to the outfield to keep his bat.

so ideally if we did have a game 7, he goes 2 innings relief, clean innings, goes 0-4 and botches a play in the outfield to clear the bases on a Giminez triple.

[mphenhef]

9 hours ago, G-Snarls said:

Yeah they haven't traded a single first round pick that is likely to be missed 

 

To be fair, they haven’t exactly knocked it out of the park with their first round picks.  Yesavage and 1.5 years of Manoah are basically it for success with their first round jury still out on some guys.

 

It’s astounding when looking at the drafts on bRef how often the Jays are one of the few teams with guys who didn’t even make it to the majors.

[jaysblue]

6 hours ago, SeranthonySantander said:

Ohtani can only stay in the game if he starts.  He can’t go relief and come out and keep hitting as DH.  I think they can put him relief then move to the outfield to keep his bat.

so ideally if we did have a game 7, he goes 2 innings relief, clean innings, goes 0-4 and botches a play in the outfield to clear the bases on a Giminez triple.

Dodgers should start Ohtani if there is a Game 7 especially if they plan on using him for only 2-3 innings anyways. Have Ohtani as the opener, and then have Glasnow follow for a couple of innings. Solves the issue of losing Ohtani's bat after as a DH and having to play him in the outfield. 

For Game 6, everything is on table for the Dodgers. If they need to use Ohtani for an inning or two relief tonight, they have no choice lol. 

[mphenhef]

7 hours ago, max silver said:

Man as potentially franchise altering the Yesavage saga has become, the post Tommy John surgery recovery arc for Manoah has been equally as tragic. He's literally a shell of his former self, as the velocity and stuff have regressed even further and he continues to be plagued by the walk. It's a damn shame that the guy's career ended up taking this turn as he was a legitimate top of the rotation arm when he was at his best.

Slider guy would do this much better than me but even in Manoah’s near CY season the advanced metrics showed he was over performing who he really was and really should have been looked at more like  mid rotation starter.  Unfortunately, even that is a pipe dream at this point.

[Angrioter]

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[Olerud363.354]

8 hours ago, SeranthonySantander said:

 I think they can put him relief then move to the outfield to keep his bat.

Can they start him in the outfield, move to relief, back to outfield, repeat back to releif.

I think rule wise they can.  There would be practical issues (like warming up, who to play in the outfield when he pitches, and probably others). 

[mphenhef]

16 hours ago, Alejandro Murphy said:

Happy for the Jays players who are getting paid a meager amount

Trey during the post game presser was looking forward to a bigger pay check. 

 

“Last year, the champion Dodgers split a pool of about $46.5 million, which came to a per-player full share of $477,441, according to the MLB commissioner's office.1 While the exact figure for this year's championship winner will depend on ticket sales revenue through the first four games of the World Series, previous payouts could offer a guide.”

Trey just answered a terrible question the best way he could.  He's not struggling by any means as he had a $4 million signing bonus.  That's more money than I have made in a 21 year career in a relatively high paying job.  He's doing just fine.

[Olerud363.354]

11 minutes ago, mphenhef said:

Trey just answered a terrible question the best way he could.  He's not struggling by any means as he had a $4 million signing bonus.  That's more money than I have made in a 21 year career in a relatively high paying job.  He's doing just fine.

He got the bonus but some other guys didn't get big bonuses.    I think everybody should have a couple of years MLB minimum.   Barger, Loperfido, Lukes, Schneider, Fischer,  Fluharty have probably only earned .... I don't know 1-1.5 million over a couple of years.  Maybe Loperfido the lowest.  I don't think any of those guys had big signing bonuses.  

Potentially those guys need to maintain accommodations in Buffalo and Toronto which can be a pain logistically. 

Financially part of it could be how much they are thinking ahead.  Like after taxes they get 400k and that could be 95% of their lifetime earnings and they don't know what the future will bring so can't count on a big payday.

Like the Barger on the couch thing.  Does he feel comfortable yet spending a couple of grand on downtown accomdations for a week?  Or is he thinking he has a few hundred k but that could be his life time earnings so can't blow it. 

Another question is how much into debt these guys might go living on a minor league salary. 

[SeranthonySantander]

1 hour ago, Olerud363.354 said:

Can they start him in the outfield, move to relief, back to outfield, repeat back to releif.

I think rule wise they can.  There would be practical issues (like warming up, who to play in the outfield when he pitches, and probably others). 

I think so but it's getting complicated now

[SeranthonySantander]

2 hours ago, jaysblue said:

Dodgers should start Ohtani if there is a Game 7 especially if they plan on using him for only 2-3 innings anyways. Have Ohtani as the opener, and then have Glasnow follow for a couple of innings. Solves the issue of losing Ohtani's bat after as a DH and having to play him in the outfield. 

For Game 6, everything is on table for the Dodgers. If they need to use Ohtani for an inning or two relief tonight, they have no choice lol. 

That's what I was thinking too for Ohtani.  Though they did use Glasnow in relief one time and he had 2 hits 2bb in 1.2 innings.  Maybe they don't want to mess with the starters routine of knowing exactly when they need to be ready etc etc

[mphenhef]

I get it for those guys a bit, but even at minimum salary for a year they are making more than many people on this board will make in 10-20 years.  Yes, 15% or more goes to agents, managers, union and clubhouse fees, but still hard to feel too concerned for them once they make the big leagues.  The minors is no joke though and most of those guys are sorely underpaid.   Think about Lukes who toiled away for ten years....can't help but feel happy for him.  I've never understood why a team wouldn't jump at the opportunity to pay their minor league guys a living wage so they can focus fully on baseball, recovery, nutrition, etc in the offseason rather than working 2-3 jobs to survive.  It's seems like a relatively cheap competitive advantage but maybe ruffling the feathers of the other cheap billionaires prevents it.

 

I also get for some of these guys a single years paycheck is all they will get so the playoff salary will be great for them....but specifically Trey, I don't think it is as crazy.

[mphenhef]

1 hour ago, Olerud363.354 said:

Can they start him in the outfield, move to relief, back to outfield, repeat back to releif.

I think rule wise they can.  There would be practical issues (like warming up, who to play in the outfield when he pitches, and probably others). 

I'm not sure any manager would have the cajones to try this.  If it worked you would be lauded but if it doesn't work out you might get raked across the coals and run out of town.  Judging by the fact a 2B and SS can't swap positions every batter it might only be possible to do mid-inning if another player is removed from  the game.

[Brownie19]

13 minutes ago, mphenhef said:

I'm not sure any manager would have the cajones to try this.  If it worked you would be lauded but if it doesn't work out you might get raked across the coals and run out of town.  Judging by the fact a 2B and SS can't swap positions every batter it might only be possible to do mid-inning if another player is removed from  the game.

This has been done before.  I believe it was in the NL back before there was the DH.  Pitcher would throw an inning, then go play LF, the come back in to pitch again.  I don't remember all the details, but I know it's been done.  It was probably a lefty, who faced a lefty, then played LF for a batter, then came back to face another lefty.

You don't get warm up pitches the second time around (if it's in the same inning).  Obviously nobody is going to do that in the World Series and it certainly didn't catch on.  I want to say it was the Cardinals or the Dodgers who did it.

[mphenhef]

1 hour ago, Brownie19 said:

This has been done before.  I believe it was in the NL back before there was the DH.  Pitcher would throw an inning, then go play LF, the come back in to pitch again.  I don't remember all the details, but I know it's been done.  It was probably a lefty, who faced a lefty, then played LF for a batter, then came back to face another lefty.

You don't get warm up pitches the second time around (if it's in the same inning).  Obviously nobody is going to do that in the World Series and it certainly didn't catch on.  I want to say it was the Cardinals or the Dodgers who did it.

Hmm, I wonder if the three batter rule would apply if they move to a different spot in the field?  I suspect it would if they start the inning.

[Brownie19]

36 minutes ago, mphenhef said:

Hmm, I wonder if the three batter rule would apply if they move to a different spot in the field?  I suspect it would if they start the inning.

Oh that's a good point.  I don't think the 3 batter rule was in effect when this was happening.  You're right, that probably squashed that plan.

[Terminator]

Fangraphs' odds on tonight's game are 55.8%-44.2% for the Dodgers. I'm pretty sure that this is the highest odds they've given the Jays all series. 

As for the series, they have the Jays winning 2 out of 3 times.

[Stangstag]

18 hours ago, Ball4Life said:

 

That’s shocking tbh. 

[Stangstag]

3 hours ago, Olerud363.354 said:

He got the bonus but some other guys didn't get big bonuses.    I think everybody should have a couple of years MLB minimum.   Barger, Loperfido, Lukes, Schneider, Fischer,  Fluharty have probably only earned .... I don't know 1-1.5 million over a couple of years.  Maybe Loperfido the lowest.  I don't think any of those guys had big signing bonuses.  

Potentially those guys need to maintain accommodations in Buffalo and Toronto which can be a pain logistically. 

Financially part of it could be how much they are thinking ahead.  Like after taxes they get 400k and that could be 95% of their lifetime earnings and they don't know what the future will bring so can't count on a big payday.

Like the Barger on the couch thing.  Does he feel comfortable yet spending a couple of grand on downtown accomdations for a week?  Or is he thinking he has a few hundred k but that could be his life time earnings so can't blow it. 

Another question is how much into debt these guys might go living on a minor league salary. 

Barger comes from a very wealthy family BTW. Dude is not hurting for money. Neither is Trey with his large signing bonus last year.

These guys can afford proper accommodations if they wanted to.

[rydermike]

4 hours ago, Olerud363.354 said:

Can they start him in the outfield, move to relief, back to outfield, repeat back to releif.

I think rule wise they can.  There would be practical issues (like warming up, who to play in the outfield when he pitches, and probably others). 

I believe they can, but they would lose the DH slot. Even if he starts the game as DH, once he moves to the field the DH slot disappears

[Olerud363.354]

3 hours ago, mphenhef said:

2B and SS can't swap positions every batter it might only be possible to do mid-inning if another player is

Shift rule?  I remember Brett Lawrie led MLB in WAR a couple months into 2012 partly because he played between 3rd for right handed batters and deep second (shallow right) for left handed batters and the d-system had him with crazy range... So at least for a while Lawrie was shifting to the other side.

Like until the shift rules you could do whatever the f*** you wanted.  5 outfielders.  5 infielders.  Play anyone any where.  And I believe there were rare cases of pitchers going to a position for a bit then back. 

[mphenhef]

28 minutes ago, Olerud363.354 said:

Shift rule?  I remember Brett Lawrie led MLB in WAR a couple months into 2012 partly because he played between 3rd for right handed batters and deep second (shallow right) for left handed batters and the d-system had him with crazy range... So at least for a while Lawrie was shifting to the other side.

Like until the shift rules you could do whatever the f*** you wanted.  5 outfielders.  5 infielders.  Play anyone any where.  And I believe there were rare cases of pitchers going to a position for a bit then back. 

Yep, the rule was introduced at the same time (or as part of) the shift rules.

[max silver]

7 hours ago, mphenhef said:

Slider guy would do this much better than me but even in Manoah’s near CY season the advanced metrics showed he was over performing who he really was and really should have been looked at more like  mid rotation starter.  Unfortunately, even that is a pipe dream at this point.

Manoah still produced top of the rotation results according to FIP and xERA, and did so largely by inducing soft contact vs the strikeout in his best full season with the club. We can argue forever about how sustainable the success was going to be as the running theory that he was due for a healhy dose of regression, but we'll never know what a healthy Alek Manoah's career arc was going to look like as the offseason shoulder injury started him on a downward spiral with drastically reduced stuff, command and effectiveness.