Positivity Thread

[L54]

Bwahahaha...

 

I think you could probably use one more than me

[Spanky99]

I think you could probably use one more than me

 

[G-Snarls]

I still think Vladdy has more 30+ HR/100 RBI seasons ahead of him

[Eat My Shatkins]

I still think Vladdy has more 30+ HR/100 RBI seasons ahead of him

 

I'm glad I'm not the one who has to decide what to do with him.

 

You could sign him to a long term contract and get burned badly (or be happy you did it)

You could trade him for a mediocre return and get burned badly (or be happy you did it)

 

I say mediocre return because I don't see a big return for him at this point.

[Krylian]

Vladdy would make any GM's hair fall out. He's impossible to figure out.

[John_Havok]

I'm glad I'm not the one who has to decide what to do with him.

 

You could sign him to a long term contract and get burned badly (or be happy you did it)

You could trade him for a mediocre return and get burned badly (or be happy you did it)

 

I say mediocre return because I don't see a big return for him at this point.

 

Yeah, his underperformance the past 2 seasons, in comparison to what everyone in baseball knows he's capable of.... makes him the weirdest tradeable/untradeable asset. To trade him, you'd want to get something back that corresponds to a guy closer to 2021/22 Vald than the 2023/2024 vlad. But why would any team want to pay that? They want to buy low and "fix" him, making it a landslide win for them.

 

Couple that with the marketing angle and how important he is to Rogers as the marketing face of the Jays and it all adds up to him not being traded

[Brownie19]

Couple that with the marketing angle and how important he is to Rogers as the marketing face of the Jays and it all adds up to him not being traded

 

Agreed. I run the pitching machine for my kid's U9 team and I always ask the opposing team's pitcher (who changes almost every inning) what their name is and who their favourite baseball player is. I'd say 30-40% of the time, the answer is still Vlad.

[G-Snarls]

Yeah, his underperformance the past 2 seasons, in comparison to what everyone in baseball knows he's capable of.... makes him the weirdest tradeable/untradeable asset. To trade him, you'd want to get something back that corresponds to a guy closer to 2021/22 Vald than the 2023/2024 vlad. But why would any team want to pay that? They want to buy low and "fix" him, making it a landslide win for them.

 

Couple that with the marketing angle and how important he is to Rogers as the marketing face of the Jays and it all adds up to him not being traded

 

Yeah

 

No matter how this season goes 95% likelihood they keep him, and probably long term

[glory]

Yeah, his underperformance the past 2 seasons, in comparison to what everyone in baseball knows he's capable of.... makes him the weirdest tradeable/untradeable asset. To trade him, you'd want to get something back that corresponds to a guy closer to 2021/22 Vald than the 2023/2024 vlad. But why would any team want to pay that? They want to buy low and "fix" him, making it a landslide win for them.

 

Couple that with the marketing angle and how important he is to Rogers as the marketing face of the Jays and it all adds up to him not being traded

 

I'm actually starting to believe he will be extended this winter regardless of who the GM is. Rogers is going to want a "face of the franchise" over the long haul (nothing in the minors currently can come close to that) and Vlad is a 130 wRC+ bat with Luis Arraez's skill set, so there is a massive ceiling on him still if the team replaces their hitting/preparation coaches and hires somebody who could unlock it. Vlad presents far more value to the Jays than he does in a trade, so he's a very risky player to move off from even ignoring the marketing aspect.

[Stangstag]

I'm actually starting to believe he will be extended this winter regardless of who the GM is. Rogers is going to want a "face of the franchise" over the long haul (nothing in the minors currently can come close to that) and Vlad is a 130 wRC+ bat with Luis Arraez's skill set, so there is a massive ceiling on him still if the team replaces their hitting/preparation coaches and hires somebody who could unlock it. Vlad presents far more value to the Jays than he does in a trade, so he's a very risky player to move off from even ignoring the marketing aspect.

 

True, though i don't think i'd feel comfortable giving Vlad a huge 200 million contract, which is likely what it will take.

 

Would be nice if he turns out to be our Bautista 2.0 though, like he stays through the rebuild and then has some great playoff moments in his 30s when the team is good again.

[G-Snarls]

I'm glad I'm not the one who has to decide what to do with him.

 

You could sign him to a long term contract and get burned badly (or be happy you did it)

You could trade him for a mediocre return and get burned badly (or be happy you did it)

 

I say mediocre return because I don't see a big return for him at this point.

 

Right

 

If he'd take a Matt Olsen contract you'd do that in a second. But he almost certainly wouldn't agree to that.

 

If a team offered you a great prospect haul half way through this season you'd be justified in doing that. But no team is at all likely to do that.

 

Not a great position to be in unfortunately

[BCZ]

George Springer's wife is hot

[wilko]

Vladdy would make any GM's hair fall out. He's impossible to figure out.

 

Look what he did to Shapiro.

[max silver]

Look what he did to Shapiro.

 

He looked like Robocop without his helmet the day he was hired.

[John_Havok]

True, though i don't think i'd feel comfortable giving Vlad a huge 200 million contract, which is likely what it will take.

 

Would be nice if he turns out to be our Bautista 2.0 though, like he stays through the rebuild and then has some great playoff moments in his 30s when the team is good again.

 

If it was 10/200, I could probably convince myself that's not awful.

 

8/200... dry heaving

 

anything under 8 years in duration at 200 I would probably vomit for a week.

[glory]

True, though i don't think i'd feel comfortable giving Vlad a huge 200 million contract, which is likely what it will take.

 

Would be nice if he turns out to be our Bautista 2.0 though, like he stays through the rebuild and then has some great playoff moments in his 30s when the team is good again.

 

If he wants $200m, then over 8-9 years wouldn't be a terrible gamble, IMO. Lower would be better obviously. He's still only 25 with elite batted ball data. A late career Encarnacion type of breakout wouldn't surprise me at all (as long as Mattingly isn't in whichever org Vlad is in during that time). It would definitely be a risk because you don't know if Vlad is fixable or whether this is what he is, but the Jays lack impact talent everywhere in the org, and he's the only one with that upside. I think I'd take that risk.

 

Bichette can kick rocks, though. Let his Tim Anderson phase happen somewhere else.

[wilko]

If he wants $200m, then over 8-9 years wouldn't be a terrible gamble, IMO. Lower would be better obviously. He's still only 25 with elite batted ball data. A late career Encarnacion type of breakout wouldn't surprise me at all (as long as Mattingly isn't in whichever org Vlad is in during that time). It would definitely be a risk because you don't know if Vlad is fixable or whether this is what he is, but the Jays lack impact talent everywhere in the org, and he's the only one with that upside. I think I'd take that risk.

 

Bichette can kick rocks, though. Let his Tim Anderson phase happen somewhere else.

 

Soon as Bo's luck runs out, he's going to be this guy:

 

[harvey16]

In 2015 we were 50-51 before we made picked up Price and Tulo! If we are somewhere around .500 at the all star break it's not out of the realm of possibility that we become buyers. As bad as a first half of the season we are having, it wasn't looking much better in 2015 and look how that turned out! Trying to stay positive as the thread suggests lol

[max silver]

In 2015 we were 50-51 before we made picked up Price and Tulo! If we are somewhere around .500 at the all star break it's not out of the realm of possibility that we become buyers. As bad as a first half of the season we are having, it wasn't looking much better in 2015 and look how that turned out! Trying to stay positive as the thread suggests lol

 

That team had a really sizeable positive run differential at that point whereas this team is currently sitting at -46.

[John_Havok]

In 2015 we were 50-51 before we made picked up Price and Tulo! If we are somewhere around .500 at the all star break it's not out of the realm of possibility that we become buyers. As bad as a first half of the season we are having, it wasn't looking much better in 2015 and look how that turned out! Trying to stay positive as the thread suggests lol

 

A .500 team with a incredibly positive runs diff (+103 at the end of July 2015) looks a lot different than a .500 team with a negative diff. There was a tangible reason to believe the Jays record wasn't truly indicative of their talent, so adding to the roster was very defensible. For the Jays to get to .500 by the end of July this season, they'd probably be looking at a run diff of maybe -15 or -20 by that point unless they went on an absolute tear with the pitching pulling their s*** together along with an offensive resurgence.

[jaysblue]

True, though i don't think i'd feel comfortable giving Vlad a huge 200 million contract, which is likely what it will take.

 

Would be nice if he turns out to be our Bautista 2.0 though, like he stays through the rebuild and then has some great playoff moments in his 30s when the team is good again.

 

You think some team is going to offer Vlad a $200M contract after 2025? It's possible if he goes out and has a 5-6 WAR season and hits 40-50 HR's in 2025, but if he stays status quo, I see him either taking a Bellinger type of contract with opt outs.

[jaysblue]

In 2015 we were 50-51 before we made picked up Price and Tulo! If we are somewhere around .500 at the all star break it's not out of the realm of possibility that we become buyers. As bad as a first half of the season we are having, it wasn't looking much better in 2015 and look how that turned out! Trying to stay positive as the thread suggests lol

 

Atkins has to actually be a buyer and make upgrades to the roster where it matters (the lineup and now bullpen).

 

Staying status quo won't be good enough.

 

I hope they could add as well at the deadline and sneak into WC3 and go on a run.

[glory]

Soon as Bo's luck runs out, he's going to be this guy:

 

 

Bo with a career 5.5 BB% and .340 BABIP. When he falls off, he'll never be able to get back up.

[Stangstag]

Soon as Bo's luck runs out, he's going to be this guy:

 

 

Without the glove though lol

[BigCecil]

Bo with a career 5.5 BB% and .340 BABIP. When he falls off, he'll never be able to get back up.

 

100%. Chase percentile scary. Deal him don't extend him. On top of that, paying him any kind of premium as a SS would be insane.

 

Hopefully he does a '22 Bo style heater before this deadline or off season to build value.

[glory]

100%. Chase percentile scary. Deal him don't extend him. On top of that, paying him any kind of premium as a SS would be insane.

 

Hopefully he does a '22 Bo style heater before this deadline or off season to build value.

 

The only issue with trading him in the winter is that Adames and Kim are free agents. A team would have to weigh giving up prospects for 1 year of Bo versus just signing a 3+ WAR SS with better defense and losing nothing. That’s why I said before trading Bo prior to 2024 when the best FA SS was a washed Tim Anderson would have made more sense but whatever. I think the deadline is the time to move him. Take the best offer you can get.

[BatFlip]

The only issue with trading him in the winter is that Adames and Kim are free agents. A team would have to weigh giving up prospects for 1 year of Bo versus just signing a 3+ WAR SS with better defense and losing nothing. That’s why I said before trading Bo prior to 2024 when the best FA SS was a washed Tim Anderson would have made more sense but whatever. I think the deadline is the time to move him. Take the best offer you can get.

 

Agree. I still think there will be a few GMs that will look at the flowing locks of Bo and see an age 26 player with proven 5 WAR upside. The haul would have been huge in the off season, now there is clearly a reclamation project discount. I still think you move him for the best offer.

 

It's almost guaranteed this guy will overvalue himself when it comes time for contract negotiations ala Chapman.

[glory]

Agree. I still think there will be a few GMs that will look at the flowing locks of Bo and see an age 26 player with proven 5 WAR upside. The haul would have been huge in the off season, now there is clearly a reclamation project discount. I still think you move him for the best offer.

 

It's almost guaranteed this guy will overvalue himself when it comes time for contract negotiations ala Chapman.

 

Plus, I'm not sure how good of a prospect Jimenez really is, but the fact that they have a SS in the minors with a 140 wRC+ and allegedly good defense (who also needs to be on the 26 man roster next season as he's out of options after 2024) should make trading Bichette a bit easier. Worst case they can stick IKF there for a year (and/or Clement if they remember he exists) as they reassess the position if playing a prospect terrifies them as much as it has over the past 12 months.

 

I'm terrified of Atkins making that trade, but if his hands are more tied now due to his impending departure (best case), then someone else within the org (or Shapiro himself) can take the lead on a trade of that magnitude. If they wait until the winter, then there's a strong chance Bo will be starting SS to start 2025.

[Stangstag]

Hold up, we might have something cooking here

[G-Snarls]

Hold up, we might have something cooking here

 

I'm glad I didn't close the thread