GDT: 3/4 - Blue Jays @ Royals 7:40 et

[Stangstag]

Honestly, it's hilarious that you truly think this. AA has run circles around Shapiro and didn't want someone above him that he thought he was better than. If it were up to Shapiro, 2015/2016 would have never happened and those were easily the best Jays seasons since the back to back championships.

 

Are you trying to say Beeston is better than AA and that’s why he was cool working under him?

[Stangstag]

I think Zaidi had a big influence on him about how to build a competitive team as well.

 

Yeah no s***. These f***ing dummies live in lala land where in their heads AA stays with the Jays and they’re a perennial 100 win team.

[Stangstag]

Mods can we implement a new board rule where you get banned if you whine about AA not being the GM of the Jays?

[burlingtonbandit]

The pitching is and has been elite though... defense overall also very good.

 

The Pitching hasn't even been that good this year so far. From who is currently on the roster/healthy I would expect them to be pretty good the rest of the season but the defense has covered up a lot.

 

There's been a ton of hard contact this year...4th worst FIP going into the game tonight and 2nd most HR against. A few of the scrubs like White, Espino and Parsons have those numbers inflated so I wouldn't actually say they have been nearly as close to the bottom as the overall numbers suggest but we should stop pretending its been great so far.

[Spanky99]

Honestly, it's hilarious that you truly think this. AA has run circles around Shapiro and didn't want someone above him that he thought he was better than. If it were up to Shapiro, 2015/2016 would have never happened and those were easily the best Jays seasons since the back to back championships.

 

Wat???

[gruber92]

After seeing how Atkins operates, its pretty clear that’s not true

 

AA left because he was butthurt they fired Beeston. Basically going from a boss that DGAF to an intelligent boss that actually knows his s***.

 

Again, he was offered a new contract. He chose to leave. He was not forced out.

 

WTF are you talking about? Shapiro laid the new laws of the land, analytically inclined and shared decision making when it comes to roster construction. You think AA wanted to leave Toronto? He was passionate on building a winner in his home country. You think he walked away from being a GM for a front office job? C'mon man.

[jaysblue]

Yanks are 17-8 and their bats are sucking. Only Soto is raking. We need Vlad to be a Soto. Channel your inner 2021.

 

And without Gerrit Cole.

[jaysblue]

Pitching isn't elite. OF defense is, but not pitching. Not like we're the 90's Braves. Our advantage last year was depth and health. We'll see this year, but in the playoffs it's all about the front 3 in the rotation and back 4 in the pen. Depth isn't as much of a weapon anymore. Most playoff teams can match us or at least come pretty close with their frontline pitching come playoff time. It wasn't as much of an advantage last year as people here made it seem despite the teams impressive team ERA. Looks like we're going down a similar path this year.

 

Over 162 game season, this pitching staff is an elite one since they have proven to be durable and healthy. Of course come playoff time, most teams who make the Postseason could come pretty close with their frontline pitching to matching up against the Jays.

 

Last Postseason, the Twins came pretty close with their pitching staff matching up with the Jays staff in the Wildcard round. They had Pablo Lopez and Sonny Gray. After them, would have had Joe Ryan or Bailey Ober. Even in a DS matchup, don't think there would have been a huge difference. Pretty even if you ask me.

 

Bullpen wise, gotta hope this version of Garcia keeps pitching like this come October. As long as the top arms in the bullpen are healthy, it's an elite pen and tough to match up against in a short series.

[jaysblue]

Repeat after me:

 

He chose to leave

 

He did, but he also knew he wouldn't have the same freedom and say under Shapiro. It's always different working under certain bosses.

[jaysblue]

The same AA Fanboys who worship him daily on the board would be cursing his name as they watch Vlad struggle in the middle of a 12 year extension right now.

 

And anyway, it's all moot as AA clearly learned a lot during his time with the Dodgers under Friedman. He'd be a different GM if he never did that and stuck it out here.

 

I kind of hate this argument being thrown around all the time with AA. Yes he learned a lot with the Dodgers under Friedman and grew, as anyone would over a period of time. Though that doesn't take away from what he brought to the Jays during his tenure. He was still a very good GM here.

 

I don't recall having a 2015 moment under this Atkins regime, and he has already been here for 8 years.

[RFK Jr]

Over 162 game season, this pitching staff is an elite one since they have proven to be durable and healthy. Of course come playoff time, most teams who make the Postseason could come pretty close with their frontline pitching to matching up against the Jays.

 

Last Postseason, the Twins came pretty close with their pitching staff matching up with the Jays staff in the Wildcard round. They had Pablo Lopez and Sonny Gray. After them, would have had Joe Ryan or Bailey Ober. Even in a DS matchup, don't think there would have been a huge difference. Pretty even if you ask me.

 

Bullpen wise, gotta hope this version of Garcia keeps pitching like this come October. As long as the top arms in the bullpen are healthy, it's an elite pen and tough to match up against in a short series.

 

The Jays last game is September 29th. What is this October that you speak of?

[Brownie19]

I kind of hate this argument being thrown around all the time with AA. Yes he learned a lot with the Dodgers under Friedman and grew, as anyone would over a period of time. Though that doesn't take away from what he brought to the Jays during his tenure. He was still a very good GM here.

 

I don't recall having a 2015 moment under this Atkins regime, and he has already been here for 8 years.

 

Just a gentle reminder that AA took the Jays to the playoffs ONCE in his 6 years. This is our record under AA:

 

2010 - 85-77 4th Place

2011 - 81-81 4th Place

2012 - 73-89 4th Place

2013 - 74-88 Last Place (after trading a ton of our prospect capital)

2014 - 83-79 3rd Place

2015 - 93-69 1st Place

 

And yes, I LOVED the 2015 season and yes, I was a supporter of AA (and still am), but in 2015 we were a .500 club (underperforming) that had to sell the farm to make that playoff push (giving us only 2 years to compete) and we still didn't win. I will forever be grateful for the excitement that 2015 team (and 2016 team) brought to me and my young kids. But for someone who seems result based - I'm not sure you should be so firm on your stance that AA was a very good GM here...unless you're hanging your hat on them getting red hot in the 2nd half of 2015 and winning a couple of series before coming up short. I'm obviously a lot more process based and for that reason, I loved a lot of the things AA did with the Jays. I could follow the logic and loved lots of his moves....but the reality is a lot of them didn't really work out. I suspect between 2012 and 2014, you probably HATED AA and wanted him fired - only to completely change your mind after 2015.

 

If you think the Jays should have kept AA then (because you anticipated his improvement as a GM), then I must ask - why don't you think Atkins could make the same adjustments and improvements as a GM?

Edited April 25, 2024 by Brownie19

[G-Snarls]

The last two stupid losses make a win today feel kind of essential

[Omar]

How did you like those 2010 -2014 Anthopoulos years?

 

Just a gentle reminder that AA took the Jays to the playoffs ONCE in his 7 years. This is our record under AA, who took over a team that was over .500..

 

No need to spoon feed it to these guys, they all know. They were mostly terrible years with AA at the helm.

[Brownie19]

No need to spoon feed it to these guys, they all know. They were mostly terrible years with AA at the helm.

 

jaysblue has shown nothing to suggest he would have supported AA between 2010-2014 (outside of giving him some leeway early on). He would have been calling for his head up until the 2015 all-star break. AA literally traded away half our prospect capital to land Reyes, Buehrle, Johnson and Bonifacio - only to go on and finish last place in 2013.

[Terminator]

The last two stupid losses make a win today feel kind of essential

 

Yeah we win today and it's a 4-3 road trip and we can feel pretty decent despite pissing two games away.

 

Lose today and Masturbator (only a sick and depraved individual would name himself after a disgusting sex act), jays24 and the other debbie downers of the board will be running wild all over the board today.

[Jays24]

People want to talk about AA's track record of only making the playoffs once when it was truly twice since 2016 was still his team. Then you have to factor that AA was the GM during a time where there 4 playoff spots.

 

People giving Shatkins the benefit when he's playing in an expanded playoff era and still can't win a damn game when it means the most. Then people talking about AA from 2010 to 2014 but what about Shatkins from 2017 to 2020?

 

We all understand it takes a bit of time to start all over the way your envision the team. Shatkins wanted "waves of talent for sustainable winning" but guess what, we're still looking for a single playoff win and might have to do a full out rebuild since the farm system can't keep up with our current roster getting too expensive.

 

Truly didn't want the conversation to go that far. It went from just remembering the great times when we had Donaldson/Batista/Edwin to people trying to think Shatkins are in the same ballpark as AA. Go take a poll with non-biased folks and see if AA doesn't win in a landslide lol.

[Brownie19]

People want to talk about AA's track record of only making the playoffs once when it was truly twice since 2016 was still his team. Then you have to factor that AA was the GM during a time where there 4 playoff spots.

 

People giving Shatkins the benefit when he's playing in an expanded playoff era and still can't win a damn game when it means the most. Then people talking about AA from 2010 to 2014 but what about Shatkins from 2017 to 2020?

 

We all understand it takes a bit of time to start all over the way your envision the team. Shatkins wanted "waves of talent for sustainable winning" but guess what, we're still looking for a single playoff win and might have to do a full out rebuild since the farm system can't keep up with our current roster getting too expensive.

 

Truly didn't want the conversation to go that far. It went from just remembering the great times when we had Donaldson/Batista/Edwin to people trying to think Shatkins are in the same ballpark as AA. Go take a poll with non-biased folks and see if AA doesn't win in a landslide lol.

 

You don't get it, which isn't unexpected.

[max silver]

People want to talk about AA's track record of only making the playoffs once when it was truly twice since 2016 was still his team. Then you have to factor that AA was the GM during a time where there 4 playoff spots.

 

People giving Shatkins the benefit when he's playing in an expanded playoff era and still can't win a damn game when it means the most. Then people talking about AA from 2010 to 2014 but what about Shatkins from 2017 to 2020?

 

We all understand it takes a bit of time to start all over the way your envision the team. Shatkins wanted "waves of talent for sustainable winning" but guess what, we're still looking for a single playoff win and might have to do a full out rebuild since the farm system can't keep up with our current roster getting too expensive.

 

Truly didn't want the conversation to go that far. It went from just remembering the great times when we had Donaldson/Batista/Edwin to people trying to think Shatkins are in the same ballpark as AA. Go take a poll with non-biased folks and see if AA doesn't win in a landslide lol.

 

The guy has been gone for a nearly a decade. Maybe it's time to move on with your life.

 

I'd hope you would realize that the years from 2017-2020 were spent cleaning up the mess that the previous guy left behind, but that would require even a modicum of rational thought.

[Stangstag]

WTF are you talking about? Shapiro laid the new laws of the land, analytically inclined and shared decision making when it comes to roster construction. You think AA wanted to leave Toronto? He was passionate on building a winner in his home country. You think he walked away from being a GM for a front office job? C'mon man.

 

He quite literally walked away but ok

[Jays24]

The guy has been gone for a nearly a decade. Maybe it's time to move on with your life.

 

I'd hope you would realize that the years from 2017-2020 were spent cleaning up the mess that the previous guy left behind, but that would require even a modicum of rational thought.

 

Of course... and 2010 to 2014 was cleaning up for Richardi. The next guy who replaced Shatkins will need the same time to clean up their mess and so forth. At least AA left Shatkins Vladdy lol.

 

And sorry for reminiscing with another few posters about a time when we had Donaldson/Jose/Edwin. Maybe you're not watching our current offense enough. These type of thoughts should be natural to most lol.

[Jays24]

He quite literally walked away but ok

 

Like the 4 other posters have told you... you're being totally oblivious as to why AA left lol.

[Brownie19]

Of course... and 2010 to 2014 was cleaning up for Richardi. The next guy who replaced Shatkins will need the same time to clean up their mess and so forth. At least AA left Shatkins Vladdy lol.

 

And sorry for reminiscing with another few posters about a time when we had Donaldson/Jose/Edwin. Maybe you're not watching our current offense enough. These type of thoughts should be natural to most lol.

 

AA was Richardi's assistant GM from 2005-2009.

[Stangstag]

Like the 4 other posters have told you... you're being totally oblivious as to why AA left lol.

 

So you admit he left then?

 

All we know are the facts. You’re insinuating you know the reason he left when that’s just not true. We don’t know the reason he left, we just know that he left.

 

Also from what i’ve heard about AA, he’s spiteful and not the nicest dude.

[wilko]

So you admit he left then?

 

All we know are the facts. You’re insinuating you know the reason he left when that’s just not true. We don’t know the reason he left, we just know that he left.

 

Also from what i’ve heard about AA, he’s spiteful and not the nicest dude.

 

Once Beeston was gone the writing was on the wall for AA. New CEO's usually like to bring in their own people.

[max silver]

Of course... and 2010 to 2014 was cleaning up for Richardi. The next guy who replaced Shatkins will need the same time to clean up their mess and so forth. At least AA left Shatkins Vladdy lol.

 

And sorry for reminiscing with another few posters about a time when we had Donaldson/Jose/Edwin. Maybe you're not watching our current offense enough. These type of thoughts should be natural to most lol.

 

The 2021 also had a fearsome lineup that featured the likes of prime Springer, Semien, MVP Vlad, the best full season version of Teoscar and Bo in the top 5 so it's not like AA is the only GM in recent history that built an offensive juggernaut.

[Spanky99]

Once Beeston was gone the writing was on the wall for AA. New CEO's usually like to bring in their own people.

 

Yes, he wanted full autonomy and wasn't going to get it under Shapiro, and he moved on, both GM's AA and RA were/are good with the Jays, just not great.

[Spanky99]

The 2021 also had a fearsome lineup that featured the likes of prime Springer, Semien, MVP Vlad, the best full season version of Teoscar and Bo in the top 5 so it's not like AA is the only GM in recent history that built an offensive juggernaut.

 

That dude's a lost cause, and I don't get why he thinks his comments are funny.

[Jays24]

The 2021 also had a fearsome lineup that featured the likes of prime Springer, Semien, MVP Vlad, the best full season version of Teoscar and Bo in the top 5 so it's not like AA is the only GM in recent history that built an offensive juggernaut.

 

Agree with this mostly but the team still wasnt good enough to even make the playoffs in an expanded playoff era. It is still the most exciting season under the Shatkins era and wish they didnt go totally to the other extreme in terms of offense vs defense.

[G-Snarls]

What a s*** series