2023 Post-Mortem Thread

[Laika]

Agreed 100%. The Jays are kinda stuck here. As you said, if they keep Vlad for 2024-25 and he's the same 1-3 WAR player he's been the last two seasons, except with AAV's over $20m in both years, then it doesn't really help the Jays get to where they want to go. If they keep him and he becomes 2021 Vlad again, then you're left having to give him $300m to keep him long term, and that seems like an awful investment given how he's looked from age 20-24 (in performance and his conditioning/body/attitude). The whole point of maximizing the Vlad/Bo years was the expectation that both would be superstars during their pre-arb and early arb years. Bo has held up his end for the most part, but Vlad hasn't come close aside from one season. Now Vlad in particular is making more than the value he provides on the field, so it's no longer a competitive window based on him.

 

Is there a team out there that would view Vlad closer to his hype than his actual results? Maybe. I'm not sure. Maybe a team like the Marlins would do it. AJ Preller would definitely do it but he's running out of assets to trade.

 

I mean the part of this that makes a trade easier to find is that we all agree that Vlad does not have huge value right now.

 

Here is a package that is literally worth Vlad right now:

29 year old reliever Steven Wilson and a 19 year old A ball outfield prospect you have never heard of in Samuel Zavala

[hanton]

[hanton]

On a long weekend

[mphenhef]

Agreed 100%. The Jays are kinda stuck here. As you said, if they keep Vlad for 2024-25 and he's the same 1-3 WAR player he's been the last two seasons, except with AAV's over $20m in both years, then it doesn't really help the Jays get to where they want to go. If they keep him and he becomes 2021 Vlad again, then you're left having to give him $300m to keep him long term, and that seems like an awful investment given how he's looked from age 20-24 (in performance and his conditioning/body/attitude). The whole point of maximizing the Vlad/Bo years was the expectation that both would be superstars during their pre-arb and early arb years. Bo has held up his end for the most part, but Vlad hasn't come close aside from one season. Now Vlad in particular is making more than the value he provides on the field, so it's no longer a competitive window based on him.

 

Is there a team out there that would view Vlad closer to his hype than his actual results? Maybe. I'm not sure. Maybe a team like the Marlins would do it. AJ Preller would definitely do it but he's running out of assets to trade.

 

I would argue if they keep him this year and he has a similar 2024 as 2023 he might actually be a non tender candidate in 2025.

[AdamGreenwood]

Agreed 100%. The Jays are kinda stuck here. As you said, if they keep Vlad for 2024-25 and he's the same 1-3 WAR player he's been the last two seasons, except with AAV's over $20m in both years, then it doesn't really help the Jays get to where they want to go. If they keep him and he becomes 2021 Vlad again, then you're left having to give him $300m to keep him long term, and that seems like an awful investment given how he's looked from age 20-24 (in performance and his conditioning/body/attitude). The whole point of maximizing the Vlad/Bo years was the expectation that both would be superstars during their pre-arb and early arb years. Bo has held up his end for the most part, but Vlad hasn't come close aside from one season. Now Vlad in particular is making more than the value he provides on the field, so it's no longer a competitive window based on him.

 

Is there a team out there that would view Vlad closer to his hype than his actual results? Maybe. I'm not sure. Maybe a team like the Marlins would do it. AJ Preller would definitely do it but he's running out of assets to trade.

 

Cubs would be perfect. They just had a great success with Bellinger, and feel confident they can turn these kind of guys around.

[BatFlip]

I mean the part of this that makes a trade easier to find is that we all agree that Vlad does not have huge value right now.

 

Here is a package that is literally worth Vlad right now:

29 year old reliever Steven Wilson and a 19 year old A ball outfield prospect you have never heard of in Samuel Zavala

 

That sounds exactly right.

[Jonn]

 

He's got a lot to f***ing answer for. That's for sure. Hopefully the media isn't pussies like usual and actually grills him.

[BatFlip]

He's got a lot to f***ing answer for. That's for sure. Hopefully the media isn't pussies like usual and actually grills him.

 

[Carlos Danger]

He's got a lot to f***ing answer for. That's for sure. Hopefully the media isn't pussies like usual and actually grills him.

 

On Saturday... Probably on a weekend for a reason...

[Carlos Danger]

I mean the part of this that makes a trade easier to find is that we all agree that Vlad does not have huge value right now.

 

Here is a package that is literally worth Vlad right now:

29 year old reliever Steven Wilson and a 19 year old A ball outfield prospect you have never heard of in Samuel Zavala

 

Zavala is actually good.. Help them get under the luxury tax and you could probably get more or a bonafide MLB player...

[JaysAllMighty]

He's got a lot to f***ing answer for. That's for sure. Hopefully the media isn't pussies like usual and actually grills him.

 

The Toronto Sun did but you don't read that... LOL

[malibu64]

For Vlad, there are two ways to look at it.

 

On one hand, some players’ peak are short and early at age 20-23 in Vlad’s case (although less common) — this is likely due to maturity which leads to lack of drive to get better, and the league just passes you by (i.e., Yasiel Puig)

 

On the other hand, you have players still figuring it and their stats fluctuates during early seasons of their career — this is where players are figuring out how pitchers are game planning against them and how to make in game and season long adjustments (i.e., David Ortiz, Adrian Beltre)

 

I’m going with the latter since Vlad is just too talented, but we never really know what goes on in his head on his approach for his career.

 

For Bo, his numbers are solid across the board. Remember he’s a SS, and although not perfect (defense, clutch hitting), he still someone you can count on day in and day out.

 

To put it all together, I think this core is still good to work with, but we need to get A tier players while we wait for Vlad to put it together.

 

That’s how AA builds his team, he never waited for Colby Rasmus to figure it out, or Adam Lind to find his stroke again, he actually builds the team with more A tier players.

 

How to actually bring in more A tier players? Well that’s where Ross Atkins “suppose” to shine.

 

AA was always creative, I see that Ross Atkins lost his touch in trades from his 16-17 successes. Atkins has been solid in finding good FA that finds their way to stardom after down years, but this usually takes 1-2 years after signing them and it’s not really a sustainable way to build more A tier players when you’re not in control of the FA market’s supply.

[Krylian]

 

How does one screw up the direction of the plate like this?

[Daniel Labude]

He's got a lot to f***ing answer for. That's for sure. Hopefully the media isn't pussies like usual and actually grills him.

 

Not really, the answers....Schneider made the decision alone, Schneider lead the meetings that reaulted in Berrios being pulled, was shocked Berrios was pulled, Schneider will return as manager

[Daniel Labude]

Not really, the answers....Schneider made the decision alone, Schneider lead the meetings that reaulted in Berrios being pulled, was shocked Berrios was pulled, Schneider will return as manager

 

Good news, Vlad will work out in Florida in the offseason

[Daniel Labude]

Good news, Vlad will work out in Florida in the offseason

 

Also excited for Manoah next season...these answers are so boring lol

[L54]

How does one screw up the direction of the plate like this?

 

AI is still working out the kinks

[Daniel Labude]

 

No s***, such a crappy run team

[Ryu In My House]

AI is still working out the kinks

 

This made me laugh out loud.