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Ryu In My House

By Ryu In My House
in Toronto Blue Jays Talk

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Laika Cooperstown

Laika

Community Moderator
Posted
Posted

Quick and dirty sort of the negative WAR relievers

 

He should have been decent/good but he wasn't. Bad luck.

Swanson (-0.7)

Romano (-0.3)

Mayza (-0.2)

 

It's your fault, Ross, for acquiring this guy and giving him so many innings.

Pop (-0.6)

Cabrera (-0.5)

Little (-0.4)

 

 

The neg WAR guys who are harder to categorize are Richards, Green, and Pearson.

Green has good Stuff+ numbers but his K rate and FIP are lagging. Hard to know why.

Pearson - not wrong to give him innings but he did not develop and instead performed "as expected".

Richards - similar to Pearson. not a bad guy to have for $2M but he didn't do very well and was possibly used poorly.

 

 

And of course, as has been said before, it's not just about the guys who were bad it's about the complete and utter lack of organizational depth behind them. Almost nobody stepped in and provided above replacement level RP innings. I mean, literally one guy did (Ryan Burr).

 

The Blue Jays did not develop and promote and use a single RP prospect this year, other than Brandon Eisert. That sounds hard to believe but it's true.

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Jays24
Jays24

But when those downgrades started to be made, many of those same posters were fighting against those who saw the obvious flaws. It seems like a shock to some of you but many of us saw stupid move aft

Delete_My_Account_Thanks
Delete_My_Account_Thanks

Hey all, I have zero hope until they cut the head off the snake. Shapiro has to go, NOW. New Prez, new GM, new development system.   We are currently the laughing stock of baseball, no one takes our

Delete_My_Account_Thanks
Delete_My_Account_Thanks

I've lurked here long enough to know not to take your bait, chum.

Laika Cooperstown

Laika

Community Moderator
Posted
Posted
Like, Toronto could change pitching development personnel with the White Sox or Rockies and it would be an improvement.
glory Vancouver Canadians

glory

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Quick and dirty sort of the negative WAR relievers

 

He should have been decent/good but he wasn't. Bad luck.

Swanson (-0.7)

Romano (-0.3)

Mayza (-0.2)

 

It's your fault, Ross, for acquiring this guy and giving him so many innings.

Pop (-0.6)

Cabrera (-0.5)

Little (-0.4)

 

 

The neg WAR guys who are harder to categorize are Richards, Green, and Pearson.

Green has good Stuff+ numbers but his K rate and FIP are lagging. Hard to know why.

Pearson - not wrong to give him innings but he did not develop and instead performed "as expected".

Richards - similar to Pearson. not a bad guy to have for $2M but he didn't do very well and was possibly used poorly.

 

 

And of course, as has been said before, it's not just about the guys who were bad it's about the complete and utter lack of organizational depth behind them. Almost nobody stepped in and provided above replacement level RP innings. I mean, literally one guy did (Ryan Burr).

 

The Blue Jays did not develop and promote and use a single RP prospect this year, other than Brandon Eisert. That sounds hard to believe but it's true.

 

I think this is the part that annoys me more than anything about this season's pen. Granted I'm not keeping track of who is hurt or not in the minors but the last 2 months of 2024 were the perfect time to use any relief prospect they could roll out there (Danner, Pardinho, whoever). Maybe they would have failed too, but who cares? You're running out s*** bags anyway.

G-Snarls Cooperstown

G-Snarls

Community Moderator
Posted
Posted
In April/May I never would have believed that we would end up with the worst bullpen in all of baseball, but it happened.
DigitalRock FCL Blue Jays

DigitalRock

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Quick and dirty sort of the negative WAR relievers

 

He should have been decent/good but he wasn't. Bad luck.

Swanson (-0.7)

Romano (-0.3)

Mayza (-0.2)

 

It's your fault, Ross, for acquiring this guy and giving him so many innings.

Pop (-0.6)

Cabrera (-0.5)

Little (-0.4)

 

 

The neg WAR guys who are harder to categorize are Richards, Green, and Pearson.

Green has good Stuff+ numbers but his K rate and FIP are lagging. Hard to know why.

Pearson - not wrong to give him innings but he did not develop and instead performed "as expected".

Richards - similar to Pearson. not a bad guy to have for $2M but he didn't do very well and was possibly used poorly.

 

 

And of course, as has been said before, it's not just about the guys who were bad it's about the complete and utter lack of organizational depth behind them. Almost nobody stepped in and provided above replacement level RP innings. I mean, literally one guy did (Ryan Burr).

 

The Blue Jays did not develop and promote and use a single RP prospect this year, other than Brandon Eisert. That sounds hard to believe but it's true.

 

Seems like player development, specially for pitchers is a real org problem.

Brownie19 New Hampshire Fisher Cats

Brownie19

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Worst Bullpen in baseball, woof. Passes the eye test too

 

We entered the year with essentially the same bullpen we had last year - which was one of the better pen's in baseball....and it was expected to improve with a full season of Green.

 

Unfortunately, this kind of s*** happens far too regularly in baseball. Good news is it can turn around just as quickly.

BigCecil Vancouver Canadians

BigCecil

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted

This FO record of developing impact pen arms & starters for us is gruesome. We would all love to see more options developed in house.

 

But watching Yariel all year & today, you have to think given the cost of pitching that the $6.4M AAV for him should be valuable for us over the next 4 seasons. There is lots to like.

MikeM3 College Ball

MikeM3

Verified Member
Posted
Posted
Like, Toronto could change pitching development personnel with the White Sox or Rockies and it would be an improvement.

 

White Sox for sure with Bannister

DigitalRock FCL Blue Jays

DigitalRock

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
We entered the year with essentially the same bullpen we had last year - which was one of the better pen's in baseball....and it was expected to improve with a full season of Green.

 

Unfortunately, this kind of s*** happens far too regularly in baseball. Good news is it can turn around just as quickly.

 

No s***

jaysblue Buffalo Bisons

jaysblue

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
We entered the year with essentially the same bullpen we had last year - which was one of the better pen's in baseball....and it was expected to improve with a full season of Green.

 

Unfortunately, this kind of s*** happens far too regularly in baseball. Good news is it can turn around just as quickly.

 

Yeah I expect the bullpen to be better next season and hope some guys bounce back but it isn't a guarantee that everything will be a complete 180 in 2025. Some legit concerns with Swanson whether he can be relied on for high leverage situations after posting a -0.7 WAR season. Green will be a year older and coming off a season worst 7.94 K/9 which is concerning. Romano's best days might be behind him at the age of 32 and he's going to be expensive likely via arbitration given his past track record. Genesis Cabrera and Zach Pop don't inspire confidence. As well, need to replace some vacancies left by Yimi Garcia, Tim Mayza, and Trevor Richards/Nate Pearson. Hopefully guys like Ryan Burr and Dillon Tate could impress in ST and stick in middle relief. Also, we'll see what role Y-Rod carves out in ST.

 

Too many red flags IMO with this pen to automatically go from one of the worst to one of the best pens again in baseball in 2025. Just my two cents. But I don't expect the bullpen to be as bad in 2024.

jaysblue Buffalo Bisons

jaysblue

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
This FO record of developing impact pen arms & starters for us is gruesome. We would all love to see more options developed in house.

 

But watching Yariel all year & today, you have to think given the cost of pitching that the $6.4M AAV for him should be valuable for us over the next 4 seasons. There is lots to like.

 

It's a real shame this FO hasn't been able to develop pen arms or starters over their time here in Toronto. Like even with the BP struggles this season, you would think they would have pivots down in Buffalo who could have stepped in and do a decent job.

 

Yeah I think Y-Rod can be a valuable piece as either a No. 4/5 starter or worst case he can be a valuable bullpen arm who might work his way into high leverage. Given the bullpens struggles in 2024 and if the Jays need to save money, wouldn't mind seeing Y-Rod being used in the pen if they decide to spend $15-20M on signing another SP this offseason. Prepare Y-Rod as a starter heading into 2025 regardless since it's easy to transition him to the pen and he could even be used as a multiple-innings option.

John_Havok MVP

John_Havok

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted

 

Good.

 

Now start throwing money at all the guys working for the Rays and Driveline and get them in house.

Terminator All-Star

Terminator

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted

Ok at this point of the season let's tank.

 

We just jumped the Pirates for the 5th overall pick. We won't be able to get any higher than that but we could easily drop to 7th, and maybe 8th. Let's make sure we get 5th.

 

Also, it only took me two tries on Tankathon to win the lottery this morning.

Jimcanuck Buffalo Bisons

Jimcanuck

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Ok at this point of the season let's tank.

 

We just jumped the Pirates for the 5th overall pick. We won't be able to get any higher than that but we could easily drop to 7th, and maybe 8th. Let's make sure we get 5th.

 

Also, it only took me two tries on Tankathon to win the lottery this morning.

 

Slot a s***** hitter behind Vladdy. Easy peasy.

Laika Cooperstown

Laika

Community Moderator
Posted
Posted
Ok at this point of the season let's tank.

 

We just jumped the Pirates for the 5th overall pick. We won't be able to get any higher than that but we could easily drop to 7th, and maybe 8th. Let's make sure we get 5th.

 

Also, it only took me two tries on Tankathon to win the lottery this morning.

 

Yeah Rossy boy needs another Austin Martin

 

So he can trade him next year for Brady Singer and then extend him for 9 years.

Laika Cooperstown

Laika

Community Moderator
Posted
Posted

Hard to complain about the tank if they end up with 5th overall

 

Realistically there was no chance of being worse than MIA, COL, LAA

 

WSH could have played better and jumped Toronto but, oh well

 

Having a worse record than PIT would be awesome.

 

CHW and OAK being ineligible for a top 9 pick is fantastic

 

Pittsburgh goes Brewers, Yankees in their final 6 games

Toronto goes Red Sox, Marlins in their final 5 so we probably win 3 games...

Texas goes Oakland, LAA in their final 6...

 

Need Pitt to overperform or Toronto to just blow it against the Marlins

Terminator All-Star

Terminator

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Don't worry, our relief pitchers are on the same page.

 

Yeah we should shut some starters down and go with some bullpen days. The more Zach Pop down the stretch the better.

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