General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2024)

[Brownie19]

https://www.thescore.com/mlb/news/3070942/bichette-ultimate-goal-is-winning-with-guerrero-blue-jays

 

So apparently, Bo does want to stay in Toronto. He wants to play with Vlad, in Toronto and win as many championships as they can. I'm sure the flat earthers will tell us we shouldn't take this at face value at all. It's morse code for "trade me now you stupid f***s - I hate it here" FWIW - I don't know how much I believe this...and I'm not sure we want him here on some mega deal.

Edited September 9, 2024 by Brownie19

[glory]

I’d be fine with Vlad on a monster FA deal but no thanks on Bichette beyond 2025. That quote from Bo is better than if he said the opposite though, so doesn’t hurt.

[Stangstag]

https://www.thescore.com/mlb/news/3070942/bichette-ultimate-goal-is-winning-with-guerrero-blue-jays

 

So apparently, Bo does want to stay in Toronto. He wants to play with Vlad, in Toronto and win as many championships as they can. I'm sure the flat earthers will tell us we shouldn't take this at face value at all. It's morse code for "trade me now you stupid f***s - I hate it here" FWIW - I don't know how much I believe this...and I'm not sure we want him here on some mega deal.

 

Aren't you one of the guys that was saying Bo is "dead to you"??

[Laika]

https://www.thescore.com/mlb/news/3070942/bichette-ultimate-goal-is-winning-with-guerrero-blue-jays

 

So apparently, Bo does want to stay in Toronto. He wants to play with Vlad, in Toronto and win as many championships as they can. I'm sure the flat earthers will tell us we shouldn't take this at face value at all. It's morse code for "trade me now you stupid f***s - I hate it here" FWIW - I don't know how much I believe this...and I'm not sure we want him here on some mega deal.

 

Probably just PR damage control from Camp Bo.

He was starting to look like a s*** teammate. That doesn't really help his value or trade chances

[Brownie19]

Aren't you one of the guys that was saying Bo is "dead to you"??

 

Yes. Did you miss the part where I said I'm not sure I believe it and that I don't want him here on a mega deal?

 

If you put on the tinfoil hat and squint - Bo looks just like Vince Carter in his last year in Toronto. Probably playing poorly on purpose to force his way out

[Jays24]

Probably the first time I've heard Bo say anything of that sorts. I always felt 2B was his position and he probably could have been re-signed to a smaller deal if that were the case.

 

Giving someone a mega deal to suck at SS defensively isn't ideal but I love his bat. Shatkins shouldn't be the people here to make this call but seems like they will. Gonna be a hard one to figure out this offseason.

Edited September 9, 2024 by Jays24

[AMS528]

Genuinely feel like not giving Horwitz a shot a 2B is shortsighted. He should at least continue getting a number of starts there and to see if he can improve. His bat could really just play so much better there as a full-timer, I think he's got a decent floor for his bat, and that really means his value at 2B could be very solid. At least run him as a 2B/1B/DH. Vlad plays every single game and it's best to keep that DH slot more rotatable.

[Stangstag]

Yes. Did you miss the part where I said I'm not sure I believe it and that I don't want him here on a mega deal?

 

If you put on the tinfoil hat and squint - Bo looks just like Vince Carter in his last year in Toronto. Probably playing poorly on purpose to force his way out

 

I don't think many here would want Bo on a mega-deal at this point, but its easy to acknowledge the team is almost certainly better next year with him here vs trading him for some underwhelming return. He'd have to be a moron to purposely play like crap in his walk year. And Bo has been a top 5-10ish SS in baseball every year minus this year.

[Stangstag]

Genuinely feel like not giving Horwitz a shot a 2B is shortsighted. He should at least continue getting a number of starts there and to see if he can improve. His bat could really just play so much better there as a full-timer, I think he's got a decent floor for his bat, and that really means his value at 2B could be very solid. At least run him as a 2B/1B/DH. Vlad plays every single game and it's best to keep that DH slot more rotatable.

 

There's really no reason to NOT play Horwitz at 2nd and Vlad at 3rd for like 80% of remaining games. This is the time to try things and see what you actually have going into the offseason.

[BatFlip]

There's really no reason to NOT play Horwitz at 2nd and Vlad at 3rd for like 80% of remaining games. This is the time to try things and see what you actually have going into the offseason.

 

100%.

 

Now is the time to see if Vlad can be equally bad defensively at 3rd as he is at 1st (but not worse) and take advantage of his one positive fielding attribute, his arm. If he's just as bad at 3B as 1B his WAR goes up due to positional adjustment (not insignificantly) and 1B opening up creates way more flexibility for the roster and for free agency. It would be a painful infield with Vlad next to Bo, but if they could add legitimate 1B and LF bats, they could go from a mediocre offense to a pretty good one in a hurry.

 

Ignore the batting order as I didn't put a lot of thought into it, but this could actually look pretty good:

 

Bo Bichette (SS) - assume his bat comes back to life

Vlad Guerrero (3B)

BIG BAT (LF)

BIG BAT (1B)

TBD (DH) - cycle players through here, including Vlad/Horwitz/TBD

Horwitz/Wagner (2B)

Varsho (CF)

Springer (RF)

Kirk ©

[glory]

I don't think many here would want Bo on a mega-deal at this point, but its easy to acknowledge the team is almost certainly better next year with him here vs trading him for some underwhelming return. He'd have to be a moron to purposely play like crap in his walk year. And Bo has been a top 5-10ish SS in baseball every year minus this year.

 

If I'm not mistaken, while Bo's 2025 salary is $16.5m, his CBT hit is only a little over $11m. The Jays want to win in 2025, Bo has a 4 WAR ceiling, and he's coming off a down year. Combine all those factors, and it does make more sense to hold on to him at this point, unless another team is willing to give up value for him, and I say that as someone who wants the Jays to move on from him. He will be motivated to have a big 2025. The issue is whether his health and/or skill set is what caused his down 2024 season, or whether it was just one of those bad years.

[Laika]

There's really no reason to NOT play Horwitz at 2nd and Vlad at 3rd for like 80% of remaining games. This is the time to try things and see what you actually have going into the offseason.

 

But they also want to see Barger, Wagner, Jimenez, Clement get reps on the infield. Like, does Barger even have a chance at third? Can Wagner play second? Important things to figure out too

[glory]

I wouldn't mind Vladdy at 3B. Good chance he's not good there but the alternatives internally are Barger who aside from a great arm seems like a butcher there, Clement and his 2% BB rate, or Orelvis who based on some scouting reports is a butcher everywhere. The best FA available is Bregman who is going to want a massive contract into his late 30's. Vlad wants to play 3B and his playing for a "best player in baseball" type of contract. He'll be super motivated. The 2025 season is a hail mary attempt anyway. Might as well be a little creative. I don't think Horwitz at 2B is something the team wants to try. Since Wagner was acquired they've put Horwitz there very seldomly. I think he's more likely to be the DH/1B next season who covers 2B if necessary.

 

I just don't see how they fill 3B otherwise. Clement should be used as a bench player (he's basically IKF from a value standpoint). Maybe there's a trade candidate out there but I don't see an obvious one.

[Brownie19]

But they also want to see Barger, Wagner, Jimenez, Clement get reps on the infield. Like, does Barger even have a chance at third? Can Wagner play second? Important things to figure out too

 

I agree with this. They may already have concluded that the likelihood of Vlad playing 3rd full time and Horwitz playing 2nd full time is quite low - so it's time to get a look at Barger and Wagner...

 

It's also hard to fathom a world we were roll out Vlad at 3rd, Bo at SS and Horwitz at 2nd base for an extended period. Giving up on defense like that is unlikely to have positive results...and good luck getting a SPer to sign here.

[Brownie19]

I don't think many here would want Bo on a mega-deal at this point, but its easy to acknowledge the team is almost certainly better next year with him here vs trading him for some underwhelming return. He'd have to be a moron to purposely play like crap in his walk year. And Bo has been a top 5-10ish SS in baseball every year minus this year.

 

I don't disagree with any of this. I wouldn't trade him for 50 cents on the dollar and I've been saying for awhile now that he should be motivated to produce next year, heading into free agency. I'm also just joking that he's the new Vince Carter - although he consistently looks f***ing miserable in the dugout. I don't think I want him here long term and I'm still super doubtful we'll actually contend next year - so just milk as much value from him as you can and move on.

[Brownie19]

If I'm not mistaken, while Bo's 2025 salary is $16.5m, his CBT hit is only a little over $11m. The Jays want to win in 2025, Bo has a 4 WAR ceiling, and he's coming off a down year. Combine all those factors, and it does make more sense to hold on to him at this point, unless another team is willing to give up value for him, and I say that as someone who wants the Jays to move on from him. He will be motivated to have a big 2025. The issue is whether his health and/or skill set is what caused his down 2024 season, or whether it was just one of those bad years.

 

Reminder that his decline started last August.

 

75 wRC+ over his last 461 PA's (since August 2023)

 

89 wRC+ over his last 678 PA's (since June 2023)

 

103 wRC+ over his last 926 PA's (since April 2023)

[G-Snarls]

I wouldn't mind Vladdy at 3B. Good chance he's not good there but the alternatives internally are Barger who aside from a great arm seems like a butcher there, Clement and his 2% BB rate, or Orelvis who based on some scouting reports is a butcher everywhere. The best FA available is Bregman who is going to want a massive contract into his late 30's. Vlad wants to play 3B and his playing for a "best player in baseball" type of contract. He'll be super motivated. The 2025 season is a hail mary attempt anyway. Might as well be a little creative. I don't think Horwitz at 2B is something the team wants to try. Since Wagner was acquired they've put Horwitz there very seldomly. I think he's more likely to be the DH/1B next season who covers 2B if necessary.

 

I just don't see how they fill 3B otherwise. Clement should be used as a bench player (he's basically IKF from a value standpoint). Maybe there's a trade candidate out there but I don't see an obvious one.

 

Whether he plays 1B or 3B he's going to mess up on some ground balls

 

Moving him to 3B allows him to make use of his excellent arm and avoids having him mess up balls received at 1B

 

So it's a balance

 

Depends a lot on who you can pick up in trade/free agency but at least it allows you to target a solid hitting 3B *OR* a 1B if you're open to it

[L54]

Aren't you one of the guys that was saying Bo is "dead to you"??

 

He’s also the guy who says we can’t believe anything any front office has ever said publicly

 

But ya Bo is completely in love with the fairy tale that is being a Blue Jay for life ❤️

[Brownie19]

He’s also the guy who says we can’t believe anything any front office has ever said publicly

 

But ya Bo is completely in love with the fairy tale that is being a Blue Jay for life ❤️

 

I literally said I don't know how much I believe what he's saying in my original post. You people don't read well eh?

[L54]

I literally said I don't know how much I believe what he's saying in my original post. You people don't read well eh?

 

Yes you covered your bases in that post for plausible deniability good job

[Brownie19]

Whether he plays 1B or 3B he's going to mess up on some ground balls

 

Moving him to 3B allows him to make use of his excellent arm and avoids having him mess up balls received at 1B

 

I don't know how much I buy this. 3rd base is MUCH harder to play than 1st base is. 3rd basemen need to field the ball cleaner and with much better footwork to even get a chance to use your arm. You have the luxury of just knocking the ball down at 1st base - it doesn't have to be clean or pretty all the time. If Vlad's range and glove are poor at first, they'll be even worst at 3rd. Then you add in that 3rd basemen get more ground ball opportunities than 1st basemen and it's probably ugly.

[Brownie19]

Yes you covered your bases in that post for plausible deniability good job

 

Do you believe everything the FO says in press conferences?

[Jays24]

We can talk about where we'd like our current players positionally, the truth is that a lot of this will be dependent on the free agents and/or players we can get via trade.

 

You go get the best player(s) and then plug in our current guys where it makes sense. Without knowing who we can get, we're just going in circles.

 

It is good to have some flexibility positonally but I'm sure the front office can't be stupid enough to go to the other extreme again by totally neglecting defense.

[Stangstag]

But they also want to see Barger, Wagner, Jimenez, Clement get reps on the infield. Like, does Barger even have a chance at third? Can Wagner play second? Important things to figure out too

 

Yeah fair enough, we don’t need to be seeing Clement at 3rd though IMO. Should be a Vlad/Barger split

[Stangstag]

I agree with this. They may already have concluded that the likelihood of Vlad playing 3rd full time and Horwitz playing 2nd full time is quite low - so it's time to get a look at Barger and Wagner...

 

It's also hard to fathom a world we were roll out Vlad at 3rd, Bo at SS and Horwitz at 2nd base for an extended period. Giving up on defense like that is unlikely to have positive results...and good luck getting a SPer to sign here.

 

Agreed that infield combo is fugly. If we had a better SS then maybe they’d roll with Vlad at 3rd. I don’t exactly think he’s been given a fair shake at 3rd in the majors though. He got moved as soon as he showed up to camp fat in 2020, which was fair. But I think he deserves another shot to prove himself there.

[Brownie19]

Eugene Bleecker (@108_performance) • Instagram reel

WWW.INSTAGRAM.COM

---

829 likes, 20 comments - 108_performance on September 8, 2024: "In April, Vladimir Guerrero Jr. had an ops of .619, since July 15th he’s been hitting .399 with a 1.233 OPS and 14 HRs…what changed? 👇 -His barrel tip is more exaggerated and more synced up with his forward move similar to the 2021 season -He has more space with his hands away from his body allowing him to not get as stuck as much and get his barrel delivered out front -His direction is better towards the middle of the field, starting slightly more square instead of open, and is compressing his front leg into the ground better, giving him more adjustability. You’ll even see some Trout Steps with his front leg show up 👀 What do you notice? Comment below⬇️ #baseball #softball #softballtraining #baseballtraining #baseballcoach #hitting #hittingcoach #hittingpost #hittingtips #warmup #hittingbombs #MLB #bluejays #breakdown #vladimirguerrerojr #collegebaseball #baseballtrainingfacility #baseballdad #baseballmom #baseballtrainingfacility #hittingmechanics #hittingdrills #btg24 #the108way #fyp".

 

Little breakdown of the changes Vlad made this year. 🔥

[max silver]

https://www.thescore.com/mlb/news/3070942/bichette-ultimate-goal-is-winning-with-guerrero-blue-jays

 

So apparently, Bo does want to stay in Toronto. He wants to play with Vlad, in Toronto and win as many championships as they can. I'm sure the flat earthers will tell us we shouldn't take this at face value at all. It's morse code for "trade me now you stupid f***s - I hate it here" FWIW - I don't know how much I believe this...and I'm not sure we want him here on some mega deal.

 

If Bo actually wants to stay long term with Vlad it's time for him to put his money where his mouth is and accept a team friendly deal. That seems about as likely as him winning a gold glove at short stop someday. Vlad is the franchise player and he's going to get paid like one, but Bo simply doesn't offer the same type of offensive upside.

[glory]

Whether he plays 1B or 3B he's going to mess up on some ground balls

 

Moving him to 3B allows him to make use of his excellent arm and avoids having him mess up balls received at 1B

 

So it's a balance

 

Depends a lot on who you can pick up in trade/free agency but at least it allows you to target a solid hitting 3B *OR* a 1B if you're open to it

 

Yeah it depends on what's the most realistic way to add wins. Seems like 3B will be a lot harder to fill externally, and they don't have a realistic internal option that you'd be comfortable banking on in 2025.

 

If I had to guess I think they'll stick with Vlad at 1B and Horwitz at DH. Third base will be filled externally somehow. Only serious FA option would be Bregman and I don't think the Jays, even in a desperate state, would want to pay that price. If they were serious about Vlad at 3B then I think they would have tried it more than they have so far since they have nothing to play for.

[Omar]

Reminder that his decline started last August.

 

75 wRC+ over his last 461 PA's (since August 2023)

 

89 wRC+ over his last 678 PA's (since June 2023)

 

103 wRC+ over his last 926 PA's (since April 2023)

 

I'm willing to disregard all of this season. I suspect he was ailing with a bad calf all season. He's too talented a hitter.

[Omar]

If Bo actually wants to stay long term with Vlad it's time for him to put his money where his mouth is and accept a team friendly deal. That seems about as likely as him winning a gold glove at short stop someday. Vlad is the franchise player and he's going to get paid like one, but Bo simply doesn't offer the same type of offensive upside.

 

Well almost no one in baseball offers the same offensive upside as Vlad. I can understand why the Jays would not want to commit to a long term deal with Bo but at the same time he isn't some scrub. He is going to be an all-star once he gets his health issues sorted.