General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2024)

[Spanky99]

I know the comment was a joke but it got me thinking whether Votto's a sure bet for the HoF. There are so many greats who still aren't in man.

 

I do love that about baseball as they totally make you earn being in the HoF whereas it's open to everyone in other sports.

 

You're totally out to lunch bro, the real question is whether he'd be first ballot, hah!

[Jays24]

You're totally out to lunch bro, the real question is whether he'd be first ballot, hah!

 

I thought playing for a small market with no real playoff success and not reaching that 500 HR mark that a lot of first baseman are held to could make it debatable. Obviously he made up for not getting 500 HRs by just being a flat out great hitter.

 

This is where advanced stats has made society smarter where you can look past some of that crap and objectively measure his greatness without actually watching him do it since his teams were hardly ever must watch.

Edited August 23, 2024 by Jays24

[Grant77]

Games 2056 to 2200

 

Lifetime 58 to 57

 

Top 3

 

7.3, 6.9, 6.4 to 8.1, 8.1, 5.8

 

wRC+ 145 to 130

 

FG defense -150 to -50

 

If you believe fangraphs defense it's pretty close... Voto ahead per game. Olerud better best 3 seasons suprisingly since Votto won an MVP.

 

I will die on this hill. Cito Gaston cost Olerud a hall of fame career. 200 missing games, platoonish 15 homer 60 rbi seasons in his prime where he had to sit for old Pat Tabler and Jacob Brumfield.

 

Olerud's performance increased when playing everyday... the platoon seasons probably demoralized him...

 

If this happened today there would be riots in the street, but no one knew the fangraphs at the time.

 

You mean like 1996 where Olerud looked absolutely hopeless against lefties and had an OPS over 200 points lower than Brumfield?

[Masterbather]

Cito was racist.

[Spanky99]

Cito was racist.

 

Correct.

[Barrelsandbombs]

[Spanky99]

 

lol... lame.

[L54]

 

lol… awesome.

[Barrelsandbombs]

Looks like Loperfido made a mechanical change and it's working so far

 

[Terminator]

Looks like Loperfido made a mechanical change and it's working so far

 

 

Mattingly strikes again

[Barrelsandbombs]

Mattingly strikes again

 

*Matt Hague strikes again

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/article/joey-loperfido-determined-to-show-blue-jays-who-truly-he-is/

 

Loperfido had already shown that he’s unquestionably a big-league defender. But a 38.4 per cent strikeout rate in a limited sample in the majors is concerning enough that after the trade Astros GM Dana Brown told the Astros’ pre-game show that “we still have to figure out what the bat was going to be because he has some strikeouts.”

 

The Blue Jays, however, liked that in previous seasons, Loperfido has already shown the aptitude to make changes and perform and had some ideas for him when he arrived. But they didn’t want to immediately inundate him with their assessments, instead choosing to hear him out, understand where he’s coming from and work with him at his own pace.

 

Using that approach helped to quickly earn Loperfido’s trust, even as “we've had some pretty honest discussions and some discussions that you're probably not having 13 days into being on a new team.”

 

“You kind of start like a big ball of clay and you work your way down to the realness of it,” he said of taking in the Blue Jays’ messaging. “It's easy to be OK, this is a bad couple of at-bats, let's write this week off. But at a certain point, you've got to be honest, like, I need to make an adjustment, what can we do to get the results?”

 

In recent days, he's been using resistance bands anchored by weights to help his body control, a drill that assistant hitting coach Matt Hague began reusing with Spencer Horwitz last week and repurposed for Loperfido.

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/article/blue-jays-bowden-francis-making-the-most-of-his-opportunity/

 

A focus of Loperfido’s work with Blue Jays assistant hitting coach Matt Hague during his slump has been stability over his back leg early in his swing and controlling his move forward. Loperfido told Hague recently that the positions he’s been getting into at the plate have felt much better than earlier this season, despite the poor results. Days like Sunday, when he also worked a 10-pitch at-bat and hit a well-struck single, tell him he’s on the right track.

[Stangstag]

*Matt Hague strikes again

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/article/joey-loperfido-determined-to-show-blue-jays-who-truly-he-is/

 

 

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/article/blue-jays-bowden-francis-making-the-most-of-his-opportunity/

 

 

Yeah I honestly don't think Mattingly is doing anything to help our hitters. I don't think i've seen a single article that specifically mentions Mattingly helping someone fix their swing. If I had to guess, i'd say Mattingly has been part of the problem telling hitters to hit up the middle more. That old "use the big part of the field" dinosaur BS.

[Terminator]

So Mattingly gets all the blame when we are hitting like crap and then when we see improvements he gets none of the credit?

[The_DH]

i wouldn't mind knowing what turned Vladdy around. Something caused the problem and something fixed it. My guess is originally somebody thought they could make Vladdy a better all-around hitter and he couldn't do it.

[max silver]

So Mattingly gets all the blame when we are hitting like crap and then when we see improvements he gets none of the credit?

 

I'm sure Mattingly must have helped some of the team's hitters but all of the available articles seem to directly mention Matt Hague as being the primary coach assisting with the offensive turnarounds this season.

[hanton]

i wouldn't mind knowing what turned Vladdy around. Something caused the problem and something fixed it. My guess is originally somebody thought they could make Vladdy a better all-around hitter and he couldn't do it.

 

this is exactly what I beleive and previoy posted about it, it's just like what coach Schneider said about Loperfido

 

“There may be some adjustments along the way and I think he's really open to those … so there's probably a little bit less pressure to go out and get it fixed all at once.” The Blue Jays have some ideas for him but “you don't want to come in and overload and say, 'Hey, we're going to fix you,’” said Schneider

 

that's after a few days on the roster

[Brownie19]

this is exactly what I beleive and previoy posted about it, it's just like what coach Schneider said about Loperfido

 

“There may be some adjustments along the way and I think he's really open to those … so there's probably a little bit less pressure to go out and get it fixed all at once.” The Blue Jays have some ideas for him but “you don't want to come in and overload and say, 'Hey, we're going to fix you,’” said Schneider

 

that's after a few days on the roster

 

What on earth is wrong with that statement? Loperfido has obvious holes in his swing, which is the primary reason he was available as a secondary piece in a trade for a rental in Kikuchi in the first place.

[Brownie19]

Yeah I honestly don't think Mattingly is doing anything to help our hitters. I don't think i've seen a single article that specifically mentions Mattingly helping someone fix their swing. If I had to guess, i'd say Mattingly has been part of the problem telling hitters to hit up the middle more. That old "use the big part of the field" dinosaur BS.

 

Do we even know exactly what Donnie's role even is? I mean I'm certainly not surprised that there aren't articles about Donnie working with hitters, using resistance bands in the cages. I thought he looked after the offensive gameplan/approach or some s*** like that.

[Stangstag]

So Mattingly gets all the blame when we are hitting like crap and then when we see improvements he gets none of the credit?

 

Yes.

[Stangstag]

Do we even know exactly what Donnie's role even is? I mean I'm certainly not surprised that there aren't articles about Donnie working with hitters, using resistance bands in the cages. I thought he looked after the offensive gameplan/approach or some s*** like that.

 

No idea, but feels like he’s been somewhat of a silent partner this year. Haven’t heard anything about him really

[John_Havok]

No idea, but feels like he’s been somewhat of a silent partner this year. Haven’t heard anything about him really

 

Could be a thing where Mattingly can see the problems, needs Hague to figure out what drills are needed to fix the problems.

[Omar]

Could be a thing where Mattingly can see the problems, needs Hague to figure out what drills are needed to fix the problems.

 

Well, based on observation; I've noticed that when the young core has a particularly good or bad ab, they come back to the dugout and review it on the ipad with Matt Hague. I don't see them seeking feedback from Mattingly like this. Although it must be said I haven't watched every game this season, I think i've missed three or four.

[Brownie19]

Well, based on observation; I've noticed that when the young core has a particularly good or bad ab, they come back to the dugout and review it on the ipad with Matt Hague. I don't see them seeking feedback from Mattingly like this. Although it must be said I haven't watched every game this season, I think i've missed three or four.

 

Donnie probably can't run an ipad. The hitters typically want to see video of themselves. It also doesn't seem unreasonable that Hague would be the hands on guy who does the grunt work.

[metafour]

i wouldn't mind knowing what turned Vladdy around. Something caused the problem and something fixed it. My guess is originally somebody thought they could make Vladdy a better all-around hitter and he couldn't do it.

 

LOL.

 

The number of completely illogical theories that are casually thrown around here is WILD.

 

Vlad Guerrero was a career .331 hitter in the minors with literally zero holes in his offensive profile. Hitting for average? Check. Hitting for power? Check. Low strikeouts? Check? Drawing walks? Check.

 

He then came up to the MLB level and at age 22 hit .311/.401/.601 with 48 HR's, a 12.3% walk rate, and a 15.8% strikeout rate. Again, pretty much a flawless hitter.

 

And your theory is that someone must have changed something to "try to make him better"?? No, man. Who in their right mind would tinker with that level of success? And what exactly do you surmise they were trying to "fix" with him? Trying to turn him into a .350 hitter with 60 HR's?

 

The obvious answer is this: he is the high profile son of a past MLB star and has been famous since age 16 when he signed a monster IFA contract. Hitting has been incredibly easy for him since age 16. He came up to the MLB level and put up an MVP caliber season at age 22. What do you think his mental reaction to that would be? "I'm the s***, this is easy." He got too confident and comfortable after essentially nothing but absurd success at every point of his career, and it seeped into his actual play. The fact that he he got fat as s*** is highly suggestive that this is likely exactly what happened. If he wasn't putting any effort into maintaining his body, what makes you think that he was putting in the work to maintain his swing? His swing broke for the first time in his life, and he realized that he couldn't just wake up and show up to the stadium and hit .300 with 50 HR's. The reality is that baseball is hard as s*** even for the most elite players - they still have to work to maintain their elite ability.

 

He showed up in considerably better physical shape this season and surprise surprise: it directly correlated with his turnaround in hitting. Again, he likely just needed to get serious about baseball again and put in the work. That was the problem, not some conspiracy theory nonsense about how someone tried to change his swing after a 6.3 fWAR season in 2021 LMAO.

 

Take a look at his sprint speed per Statcast:

 

2021: 50th percentile (elite season)

2022: 35th percentile (disappointing season)

2023: 27th percentile (disappointing season)

2024: 47th percentile (elite season)

 

Guess what the big answer is? In 2021 and 2024 he came prepared to play like an elite player. His athleticism was higher and his hitting was elite. In 2022 and 2023 he showed up unprepared and this is reflected in not only his physical appearance, but also his measured athleticism, and finally his offensive production as well.

[L54]

*Matt Hague strikes again

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/article/joey-loperfido-determined-to-show-blue-jays-who-truly-he-is/

 

 

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/article/blue-jays-bowden-francis-making-the-most-of-his-opportunity/

 

Matt Hague stock is waaay up

 

All aboard the Hague train

[Barrelsandbombs]

i wouldn't mind knowing what turned Vladdy around. Something caused the problem and something fixed it. My guess is originally somebody thought they could make Vladdy a better all-around hitter and he couldn't do it.

 

Guillermo Martinez and old friend Teoscar Hernandez got credit for helping Vladdy

 

The turnaround coincided with both a swing adjustment, moving away from what hitting coach Guillermo Martinez described as “over-exaggerating some movements” picked up during the off-season, and a pep talk from close friend and former teammate Teoscar Hernandez when the Dodgers visited in April.

 

“Sometimes, as a player, not only Vladdy, when your head is not in the place that it’s supposed to be and you’re not doing well, on the field, it gets harder, you know?” said Hernandez.

 

“I think he was getting a lot of pressure because of the situation that the team was going, in that moment he wasn’t hitting good and everybody was saying negative things about him. I got the chance to talk to him and just tell him the player that he is, the person that he is and the things that he can do for that organization.”

 

At the same time, there were ongoing conversations with Martinez, who didn’t want to get too specific on Guerrero’s tweaks, but said they were intended to help him “elevate the ball a little more and that got him into a little trouble.” And while the premise had some validity, Martinez believed they were unnecessary because “they were movements that he was already making.”

 

“If you think about making those certain movements, they become bigger and longer,” he continued. “That’s all it was.”

 

Guerrero’s correction initially began with lots of hits but relatively little damage — he had only seven extra-base hits in May while batting .357 — but went on to slug .608 during a monster June that included eight homers and seven doubles.

 

https://toronto.citynews.ca/2024/07/16/vladimir-guerrero-jr-toronto-blue-jays/

[hanton]

on Ernie's home run, get behind the ball like that no matter where the pitch is and it's going out. Statcast needs to introduce approach angle...

 

Ted Williams would be proud

 

[WryNGinger]

i wouldn't mind knowing what turned Vladdy around. Something caused the problem and something fixed it. My guess is originally somebody thought they could make Vladdy a better all-around hitter and he couldn't do it.

 

He woke up in the morning and said to himself "get a haircut and get a real job". Rest is history.

[Jimcanuck]

Something to keep in mind about swing adjustments. It doesn't happen overnight. Takes weeks and weeks of repetition to lock them in.

[Barrelsandbombs]

From Ben Nicholson-Smith, expands on how Bassitt's comments landed with the organization:

 

Q: Since you're around the clubhouse, you're around the organization, like any sense of how those comments that went viral might have just played out with the organization or with the players that are sharing that locker room with Chris Bassitt?

 

A: Yeah, I think that for the players, it's so much a move to the next day, on to the next thing. I don't think anyone's worrying about that or harboring any grudges at this point, or even on Monday for that matter. I think they move right past it.

 

But when it comes to the organization, it's not a good look when you have a player openly being, you know, a little critical, right, of the front office, of the steps that they made, of the team that they built. And so, I think to some extent, there was a little bit of a conversation that had to be had. And from everything that was described to me, Chris Bassitt was accountable in that conversation.

 

And everyone's on the same page now and ready to move past it. But yeah, I think it was a little bit disruptive.

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/590/fan-pregame/how-to-not-be-fooled-by-nfl-hype/