General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2024)

[Carlos Danger]

What is the thought process that Soto would never sign in TO, yet the Jays thought Ohtani would?

 

They signed Springer. You don’t think Vlad, Joey Bats, EE and a s*** load of other Dominicans won’t tell him what a great place Toronto is to play and the multiculturalism etc, etc.

[BigCecil]

Vlad. Who knows what he demands. I'd extend for the right deal but whats the right deal in Vlad's & Agents mind? We have no clue. If he wants 8/250 for ex. forget it. Move him when he has 1.5WAR and 135 wRC+ at the deadline if he doesn't want to get into a real negotiation.

 

This team is reduced to fapping about IKF and Varsho being 54th and 44th on the MLB WAR Leaderboard 50% of the way through the season, topping out at 1.9. Meanwhile Soto Henderson Judge etc all over 5 already.

 

Listening to Fangraphs nerd Dan Szymborski on Jays situation and projections etc this am on Jays Talk Plus is a sobering reality check. As if we need it.

[Laika]

What is the thought process that Soto would never sign in TO, yet the Jays thought Ohtani would?

 

They signed Springer. You don’t think Vlad, Joey Bats, EE and a s*** load of other Dominicans won’t tell him what a great place Toronto is to play and the multiculturalism etc, etc.

 

Soto will go to the highest bidder

 

Just hard to imagine it being Toronto

 

He's also not the same thing as Ohtani. Has an elite current player but not some two way decade superstar. Much riskier deal maybe

[Spanky99]

lol... Vlad isn't getting that type of money @ that term, you guys are high.

[max silver]

What is the thought process that Soto would never sign in TO, yet the Jays thought Ohtani would?

 

They signed Springer. You don’t think Vlad, Joey Bats, EE and a s*** load of other Dominicans won’t tell him what a great place Toronto is to play and the multiculturalism etc, etc.

 

When courting Ohtani the Jays could point to a string of successful seasons and where he could be a finishing touch to put them over the top. With Soto the team would have to convince him that this year's total s*** show was going to be a single year anomaly and that they would be imminently reversing their fortunes.

[Carlos Danger]

Soto will go to the highest bidder

 

Just hard to imagine it being Toronto

 

He's also not the same thing as Ohtani. Has an elite current player but not some two way decade superstar. Much riskier deal maybe

 

Never said he was equal to Ohtani.

 

My question was why would we think Ohtani would say yes to sign in TO and Soto wouldn’t if we have the highest offer.

 

There appears to be a group that thinks Soto would never choose TO regardless.

 

Trying to understand that thought process if we offer most $?

[max silver]

Soto will go to the highest bidder

 

Just hard to imagine it being Toronto

 

He's also not the same thing as Ohtani. Has an elite current player but not some two way decade superstar. Much riskier deal maybe

 

It's far from a given that Soto is going to just go to the highest bidder no matter the competitive situation the club has to offer. Chances are all of the respective teams are going to be in the same ballpark financially when it comes to the overall offer and money won't be the deciding factor.

[Carlos Danger]

When courting Ohtani the Jays could point to a string of successful seasons and where he could be a finishing touch to put them over the top. With Soto the team would have to convince him that this year's total s*** show was going to be a single year anomaly and that they would be imminently reversing their fortunes.

 

Ok, that is what I was looking for. Solid point.

 

A- on your paper. Keep up the good work.

[wilko]

What is the thought process that Soto would never sign in TO, yet the Jays thought Ohtani would?

 

They signed Springer. You don’t think Vlad, Joey Bats, EE and a s*** load of other Dominicans won’t tell him what a great place Toronto is to play and the multiculturalism etc, etc.

 

The Jays stink. Why leave the Yanks/a possible better team for the Jays? Plus I don't think Soto can grow facial hair so he's probably good to stay in NY.

[The Cats Ass]

Get Vladdy signed on a decent deal and use him him to draw in Soto. Paint a Manny/Ortiz picture to him.

[glory]

The Jays outbidding the Yankees and Steve Cohen is a pipe dream.

[Laika]

It's far from a given that Soto is going to just go to the highest bidder no matter the competitive situation the club has to offer. Chances are all of the respective teams are going to be in the same ballpark financially when it comes to the overall offer and money won't be the deciding factor.

 

Who knows what's between his ears

 

But everything he has done so far indicates that money is the most important thing to him

 

He has not entertained an extension from any team even when being offered a reported $400M extension. Spurned the Nats, motivated the Padres to trade him with control left...

[BigCecil]

lol... Vlad isn't getting that type of money @ that term, you guys are high.

 

I agree 100%. The issue is does HE know that? I think not and he will be impossible to extend as a result, so sell "high".

[Laika]

Never said he was equal to Ohtani.

 

My question was why would we think Ohtani would say yes to sign in TO and Soto wouldn’t if we have the highest offer.

 

There appears to be a group that thinks Soto would never choose TO regardless.

 

Trying to understand that thought process if we offer most $?

 

who said that?

[Brownie19]

Dude we've been over this, IDK exactly whats happening with the org/coaching staff but SOMETHING happened after 2022 and things changed for the worse. I would not be surprised to see guys like Vlad, Bo, Kirk, Springer, etc start hitting better next year with different people in charge.

 

I'm just trying to find a logical explanation and I can't seem to find a narrative that includes "the hitting coaches f***ed this all up and as soon as they are gone, they'll hit great again".

 

It makes ZERO sense that the same hitting coach from 2021/22, when they were incredible offensively would make drastic changes in 2023/24 AND STICK WITH THEM through this debacle. It is more logical to suggest that Donnie Baseball came in here and swung his girthy manhood around and took over as the sheriff in Town, implemented ALL NEW philosophies and that nobody in the org has the balls to tell him to f*** off and change - not Shapiro, not Atkins, not Schneider and not the players. But again, that just seems to f***ing crazy I can't fathom a world where that happens.

 

Again, the Braves offense has been trash (albeit improving) this year v. the utter dominance they displayed last year and AA literally said they can't figure why the f*** that's happened. The same way Atkins would tell you he has no idea why our bullpen went from great to the worst in baseball overnight. Because a lot of s*** happens in baseball that simply can't be explained and isn't necessarily someone's fault (often is a combination of several factors). I think that's a more logical explanation than blaming the hitting coaches and suggesting all the problems will evaporate with a new staff.

[max silver]

I'm just trying to find a logical explanation and I can't seem to find a narrative that includes "the hitting coaches f***ed this all up and as soon as they are gone, they'll hit great again".

 

It makes ZERO sense that the same hitting coach from 2021/22, when they were incredible offensively would make drastic changes in 2023/24 AND STICK WITH THEM through this debacle. It is more logical to suggest that Donnie Baseball came in here and swung his girthy manhood around and took over as the sheriff in Town, implemented ALL NEW philosophies and that nobody in the org has the balls to tell him to f*** off and change - not Shapiro, not Atkins, not Schneider and not the players. But again, that just seems to f***ing crazy I can't fathom a world where that happens.

 

Again, the Braves offense has been trash (albeit improving) this year v. the utter dominance they displayed last year and AA literally said they can't figure why the f*** that's happened. The same way Atkins would tell you he has no idea why our bullpen went from great to the worst in baseball overnight. Because a lot of s*** happens in baseball that simply can't be explained and isn't necessarily someone's fault (often is a combination of several factors). I think that's a more logical explanation than blaming the hitting coaches and suggesting all the problems will evaporate with a new staff.

 

I don't Atkins has implied it's some sort of mystery as to why the Blue Jays bullpen has been so bad this season. Romano and Swanson suffered injuries in the spring, were bad upon return and both are unavailable at present. Garcia is out due to injury. Mayza has seen a dramatic reduction in his stuff and subsequently his results are bad as well. Depth guys like Rodriguez and Francis both missed a lot of time due to injury as well.

[Spanky99]

I agree 100%. The issue is does HE know that? I think not and he will be impossible to extend as a result, so sell "high".

 

Hahaha... well, he best start hitting for more ISO along with some bombs. If Vlad's camp is that delusional, they can f*** off.

[Brownie19]

I don't Atkins has implied it's some sort of mystery as to why the Blue Jays bullpen has been so bad this season. Romano and Swanson suffered injuries in the spring, were bad upon return and both are unavailable at present. Garcia is out due to injury. Mayza has seen a dramatic reduction in his stuff and subsequently his results are bad as well. Depth guys like Rodriguez and Francis both missed a lot of time due to injury as well.

 

For f*** sakes, insert another example of a bullpen that showed extreme fluctuation from one season to the next. It happens all the time without accusations that the pitching coaches are implementing a new philosophy that has ruined everything. Also - every team deals with pitching injuries.

[Brownie19]

Hahaha... well, he best start hitting for more ISO along with some bombs. If Vlad's camp is that delusional, they can f*** off.

 

You just know they're going to be...

[max silver]

For f*** sakes, insert another example of a bullpen that showed extreme fluctuation from one season to the next. It happens all the time without accusations that the pitching coaches are implementing a new philosophy that has ruined everything. Also - every team deals with pitching injuries.

 

So this is just another example of you inserting another irrelevant example like other recent threads. Duly noted.

[jaysblue]

lol... Vlad isn't getting that type of money @ that term, you guys are high.

 

I don't see any team giving him a monster deal unless he goes out and has a 5-6 WAR season with 40-50 HR's in 2025.

 

I think he signs a short term deal to rebuild his value or something similar to Bellinger's contract with the opt-outs.

 

Otherwise, if Vlad keeps the status quo, no team is giving him 200M lol.

[BatFlip]

I don't see any team giving him a monster deal unless he goes out and has a 5-6 WAR season with 40-50 HR's in 2025.

 

I think he signs a short term deal to rebuild his value or something similar to Bellinger's contract with the opt-outs.

 

Otherwise, if Vlad keeps the status quo, no team is giving him 200M lol.

 

No team is giving him 200M, but if he thinks he's still going to get big money, he's not going to sign an extension and he's going to go to the highest bidder. Just the fact that he's talking about how 'it's a business' and 'I'm a professional' and he'd go to the Yankees now tells you where his head is at. I think the question here is, would we be able to sign him to a market value extension given his recent performance, age, upside, etc. before he hits the market, and if not, is now the time to maximize a return for him when we clearly don't have a contender this year (or likely next).

[Omar]

If Vladdy wanted 8/200 I would do it in a heartbeat.

 

If he wanted 8/240 I would consider it.

 

Just saying.

[Spanky99]

Vlad. Who knows what he demands. I'd extend for the right deal but whats the right deal in Vlad's & Agents mind? We have no clue. If he wants 8/250 for ex. forget it. Move him when he has 1.5WAR and 135 wRC+ at the deadline if he doesn't want to get into a real negotiation.

 

This team is reduced to fapping about IKF and Varsho being 54th and 44th on the MLB WAR Leaderboard 50% of the way through the season, topping out at 1.9. Meanwhile Soto Henderson Judge etc all over 5 already.

 

Listening to Fangraphs nerd Dan Szymborski on Jays situation and projections etc this am on Jays Talk Plus is a sobering reality check. As if we need it.

 

Should've left this out mate, lol... those guys are superstars.

[Eat My Shatkins]

At the very least you hope the Jays are in there driving up the price for Soto to re-up with the Yanks

 

I don't have much hope he'd sign with the Jays, but trading Bo right now along with every pending FA we have, then landing Soto and Adames in free agency would be a nice way to go into 2025.

[Spanky99]

If Vladdy wanted 8/200 I would do it in a heartbeat.

 

If he wanted 8/240 I would consider it.

 

Just saying.

 

Logically, that's where it should be, somewhere in that range.

[BatFlip]

Logically, that's where it should be, somewhere in that range.

 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but $240M/8 would make Vladdy the highest paid 1B in the MLB. Granted it's the younger years, Age 27-34 seasons, but I can't see it with the performance over the last couple years.

 

If he suddenly starts putting things together in the second half, it's a possibility, but I'm just looking at the situation as it stands. I am 100% walking away from $240M for this guy.

[Spanky99]

At the very least you hope the Jays are in there driving up the price for Soto to re-up with the Yanks

 

I don't have much hope he'd sign with the Jays, but trading Bo right now along with every pending FA we have, then landing Soto and Adames in free agency would be a nice way to go into 2025.

 

They'll be in that sweepstakes, no doubt.

[Spanky99]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but $240M/8 would make Vladdy the highest paid 1B in the MLB. Granted it's the younger years, Age 27-34 seasons, but I can't see it with the performance over the last couple years.

 

If he suddenly starts putting things together in the second half, it's a possibility, but I'm just looking at the situation as it stands. I am 100% walking away from $240M for this guy.

 

I'm suggesting their range @ 10 term, he's going to want more than the Olson deal.

 

ETA: My bad, I was thinking on a 10 year deal, an AAV of 20-24M

[BigCecil]

Should've left this out mate, lol... those guys are superstars.

 

LOL. No way. Precisely my point. They are in our Division aren't they? And we match up with our top WAR accumulating players so far - IKF and Varsho. Thats the sad state of the fapping material available to us.

 

Pick who you want as replacements on that list. They are 44 and 54 so lots of room between the three I chose and 44th to select.

 

Sad state.