General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2024)

[gruber92]

Blow it out your ass, meat.

 

Blow the gerbil out of your ass, meat.

[Spanky99]

Blow the gerbil out of your ass, meat.

 

gruber92 projecting... ^^^^

[L54]

Blow it out your ass, meat.

 

Whatever that means

[Sorrow]

There's no chance in hell that Atkins is let go before the trade deadline is complete. There may be an internal thing with Shapiro, Tinnish and Click taking more responsibility from Atkins but allowing Atkins to be the face and voice still until probably the end of the season unless he gets one more kick at the can in 2025.

 

I do think we will see the Jays start trading pieces after July 1st if we get hosed in the next week or so. I'm not sure whether I'd expect a full rebuild or just finding depth and options to start building for a 2025 retool.

 

I personally think that we'll see Kikuchi, Richards and if he's healthy Garcia traded from the pitching staff with a smaller chance that Green and Pearson are moved. I don't see the team moving Gausman, Berrios or Bassitt especially if they intend to contend in 2025.

 

From the position player side I wouldn't be shocked to see IKF moved as a sell high thing. I think Jansen ends up traded, KK and Turner are moved to contenders looking for bench depth. I don't think we will Bichette traded based on the last 400+ PA of being s*** and I think if they do move on it's going to be this winter if he rebuilds value in the second half. I could see Vladdy being moved though for a few near MLB ready pieces.

[Jimcanuck]

It would be a fireable offense to not trade gausman and bassitt

[Spanky99]

Whatever that means

 

It's as if you're happy. You know what it means.

[L54]

It's as if you're happy. You know what it means.

 

Lol k

[jaysblue]

It would be a fireable offense to not trade gausman and bassitt

 

If they plan on doing a quick retool for 2025 and taking one more chance at it, probably need both Gausman and Bassitt. Though that would require more creativity this upcoming offseason by seriously addressing areas of need, which it seems like Atkins has a hard time doing.

 

I think they could get a really solid return for Gausman given his salary and control. Would be open to moving him, but has to be an elite package of young players/specs coming back.

 

Bassitt, regardless if they rebuild or retool for 2025, will still be useful to keep around. He'll provide innings next season and is off the books anyways after 2025.

[Jimcanuck]

If they plan on doing a quick retool for 2025 and taking one more chance at it, probably need both Gausman and Bassitt. Though that would require more creativity this upcoming offseason by seriously addressing areas of need, which it seems like Atkins has a hard time doing.

 

I think they could get a really solid return for Gausman given his salary and control. Would be open to moving him, but has to be an elite package of young players/specs coming back.

 

Bassitt, regardless if they rebuild or retool for 2025, will still be useful to keep around. He'll provide innings next season and is off the books anyways after 2025.

 

For 20 f***ing years the Jays tried to retool for the next year, and nothing to show for it. It's a foolish approach, unless a team has several cost controlled solid contributors which the Jays do not.

[jaysblue]

For 20 f***ing years the Jays tried to retool for the next year, and nothing to show for it. It's a foolish approach, unless a team has several cost controlled solid contributors which the Jays do not.

 

Yeah I wouldn't want Atkins in charge that's for sure. Need a new vision and mind, whether it's for a rebuild or retool IMO.

 

I think if you get an elite package of prospects for Gausman, would definitely do it. If you're not getting anything worthwhile, it's just best to keep him. As for Bassitt, not sure you would get much for him either way given his age and salary, and regardless the Jays will need a veteran arm to eat innings in 2025.

[connorp]

If they plan on doing a quick retool for 2025 and taking one more chance at it, probably need both Gausman and Bassitt. Though that would require more creativity this upcoming offseason by seriously addressing areas of need, which it seems like Atkins has a hard time doing.

 

I think they could get a really solid return for Gausman given his salary and control. Would be open to moving him, but has to be an elite package of young players/specs coming back.

 

Bassitt, regardless if they rebuild or retool for 2025, will still be useful to keep around. He'll provide innings next season and is off the books anyways after 2025.

 

Unfortunately, I think this is the reality we’re looking at. No Jerry Jones pissed he’s not holding a trophy. You have corporate overlords that have invested hundreds of millions and probably don’t have the stomach for what the bomb will do to the bottom line.

 

There will be some moves, but it’s going to be a retool

[G-Snarls]

Unfortunately, I think this is the reality we’re looking at. No Jerry Jones pissed he’s not holding a trophy. You have corporate overlords that have invested hundreds of millions and probably don’t have the stomach for what the bomb will do to the bottom line.

 

There will be some moves, but it’s going to be a retool

 

Some owners mostly care about winning a championship

 

Some owners only care about making money

 

Some want both to varying degrees

[G-Snarls]

IMHO Rogers prob cares more about making money than winning World Series titles

 

Making money doesn't REQUIRE winning World Series titles but fielding a competitive team that's actually fun/exciting to watch with players people like to cheer for certainly helps. With this team right now they are at serious risk of losing viewership (and therefore $) and have virtually no chance of winning a World Series. Bad position to be in, especially after investing all that money in facilities and payroll.

Edited June 24, 2024 by G-Snarls

[Jimcanuck]

Done right i.e., massive firesale now, the Jays/Rogers will lose money this season and next and start making money with a young, exciting, and cheaper team on the field in 2026.

[connorp]

Done right i.e., massive firesale now, the Jays/Rogers will lose money this season and next and start making money with a young, exciting, and cheaper team on the field in 2026.

 

The road to hell is paved good intentions lol. Could be done wrong

[Stangstag]

Unfortunately, I think this is the reality we’re looking at. No Jerry Jones pissed he’s not holding a trophy. You have corporate overlords that have invested hundreds of millions and probably don’t have the stomach for what the bomb will do to the bottom line.

 

There will be some moves, but it’s going to be a retool

 

Lets just hope the “retool” goes better than the one after 2022 after shipping out Teo and Lourdes and going all in on defense.

[Olerud363]

Unfortunately, I think this is the reality weÂ’re looking at. No Jerry Jones pissed heÂ’s not holding a trophy. You have corporate overlords that have invested hundreds of millions and probably donÂ’t have the stomach for what the bomb will do to the bottom line.

 

There will be some moves, but itÂ’s going to be a retool

 

The bottom line will tank anyway. By 2019 Blue Jays attendance had cratered despite 'not selling' in 2017 and 2018.

 

No one is arguing that the Jays should go from a decent 82 win team, with 2.5 million attendance to a 65 win team with 1.5 million attendance for the goal of draft picks.

 

The argument is:

 

1. This organization has collapsed and will win 75 games if they try hard

2. Might as well win 65 instead and reconfigure talent for 2027.

 

So option 1 is win 75. Option 2 is sell and win 65. Could they win 82 if they try really hard? Could they sneak into playoffs next year ? If you think they can, then I agree tanking is not a good option.

[Olerud363]

Another huge piece of the puzzle is the Buffalo guys and exactly how they will translate. This is actually still a bit of an unknown given the changes to minor league baseball (automated strike zone).

 

Also an unknown given modern analytics. Maybe these Buffalo guys are excelling because they are the ones that can absorb and utilize the modern game prep

 

Historically a guy hitting like Horwitz in triple a would be good, even if a little older, but the argument could be it's just the wacko strike zone that is boosting him and others. On the other hand I think the Buffalo guys are still among league leaders, so it's not like everyone hits .330 .450 .500 in the international league. Clement and Schneider are up and down but translating OK.

 

So if traditional minor league translations work at all there is a lot of talent in Buffalo (Leo Jiminez could be the best if his defense is good) and that talent is going to be like 26 on average in 2025... so now is the time for the Buffalo boys.

 

So OK. If you believe that minor league numbers still work, retooling for next year, and including the Buffalo guys in the plans may be the way to go.

[Krylian]

IMHO Rogers prob cares more about making money than winning World Series titles

 

Making money doesn't REQUIRE winning World Series titles but fielding a competitive team that's actually fun/exciting to watch with players people like to cheer for certainly helps. With this team right now they are at serious risk of losing viewership (and therefore $) and have virtually no chance of winning a World Series. Bad position to be in, especially after investing all that money in facilities and payroll.

 

If their #1 priority is making money then they should absolutely be pushing hard for a World Series. There is much more money to be made if you're a Championship team than a fringe team.

[Eat My Shatkins]

Swanson gave up 6 earned runs yesterday a third of an inning. 9 strikes on 19 pitches.

 

Rocking a 16.76 ERA since going to AAA

 

I remember at the start of the year trying to guess which one of last years solid relievers was going to s*** the bed this year, because you knew there would be one for sure.

 

Well, turns out I could have guessed any of Romano, Mayza, Swanson or even Green who's already had two IL stints and is on pace for like 35 IP lol

 

I thought it'd be Richards

[MikeM3]

We actually have the 4th pick in the draft as we speak. And we're not even tanking. This year is a gift from God if we execute correctly

[Spanky99]

Yeah I wouldn't want Atkins in charge that's for sure. Need a new vision and mind, whether it's for a rebuild or retool IMO.

 

I think if you get an elite package of prospects for Gausman, would definitely do it. If you're not getting anything worthwhile, it's just best to keep him. As for Bassitt, not sure you would get much for him either way given his age and salary, and regardless the Jays will need a veteran arm to eat innings in 2025.

 

The other day you were bitching why Atkins hadn't done anything yet to better the team, what's changed? Pick a lane, man.

[The_DH]

We actually have the 4th pick in the draft as we speak. And we're not even tanking. This year is a gift from God if we execute correctly

 

If we finish 4th worst overall there will have to be serious repercussions.

[Brownie19]

Lets just hope the “retool” goes better than the one after 2022 after shipping out Teo and Lourdes and going all in on defense.

 

Lourdes f***ing sucks. He's a 1.5-2 WAR corner outfield. He's an overrated player who has ALWAYS been completely replaceable. IMO, he shouldn't be mentioned as someone who had any type of major impact on this team. Teo was an impact player for the Jays.

[Spanky99]

We actually have the 4th pick in the draft as we speak. And we're not even tanking. This year is a gift from God if we execute correctly

 

6th, no?

[MikeM3]

6th, no?

 

No because CWS and OAK can't be top 10 again. New rules

[Jimcanuck]

Isn't there a draft lottery now

[Brownie19]

Swanson gave up 6 earned runs yesterday a third of an inning. 9 strikes on 19 pitches.

 

Rocking a 16.76 ERA since going to AAA

 

I remember at the start of the year trying to guess which one of last years solid relievers was going to s*** the bed this year, because you knew there would be one for sure.

 

Well, turns out I could have guessed any of Romano, Mayza, Swanson or even Green who's already had two IL stints and is on pace for like 35 IP lol

 

I thought it'd be Richards

 

Wonder if that elbow strain he had in spring training is still causing issues. That, combined with the accident with his son this spring and his results this year must be a f***ing nightmare for him.

[Eat My Shatkins]

Wonder if that elbow strain he had in spring training is still causing issues. That, combined with the accident with his son this spring and his results this year must be a f***ing nightmare for him.

 

Yeah, I feel for the guy. Been a brutal 4 months.

[Brownie19]

What's up with Danny Jansen? What a rut he's in at the plate.