General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2024)

[HomeRunHomer]

Atkins made a terrible decision when he decided to go all in on pitching and defence at the expense of hitting. It's like playing the trap in hockey. The only time it's not a miserable experience is if you win it all.

 

2023 was the year to go for it. We had the expiring contracts. A few years left of control on Bo and Vlad, and a solid starting rotating, It was a natural year to roll the dice and go for it all while this year would have been the natural year to retool and evaluate where to go next. All Atkins needed to do was bring back the same team from 2022 while shoring up the bullpen and buying bullpen arms at the deadline is usually easier and cheaper than getting a great bat.

 

Instead Shatkins went all galaxy brain. The Jays blew the best year of the Bo and Vlad era and now have years of control of a team that will be lucky to make the playoffs and is no fun to watch. Funny thing is Atkins actually had the opportunity to right the ship a bit by bringing back Teo or Gurriel this offseason but failed there too.

[saskjayfan]

Totally agree that it is frustrating beyond belief. On the "Whatever we are doing it isn't working" note... why does Vlad Guerrero Jr. play 160 games?

 

In 2019 he was given an off day 2-4 times a month. Which was frustrating because Tosco was brain dead about it (like giving him an off day in front of a big Victoria day home crowd after a big weekend on the road)...

 

Still they maybe try the Barry Bonds treatment with Vlad? 145 starts, 150 or so games. Why not at this point. Why load manage him as a fresh 20 year old but not as a struggling beat up looking at times, 23-25 year old?

 

Beyond the obvious physical day off, Vlad could use the mental days off too. I agree. Give him some time off. It's hard to do when you're below .500.

[saskjayfan]

Keegan just said on Twitter than Manoah is in the clubhouse in Washington.

[keggy]

Holy crap there's some negative posters around here but this really takes the cake. There has been a lack of recent post season success no doubt but how many post season appearances did JP teams have exactly?

 

You can't compare postseason appearances across different Wild Card eras

[glory]

Not sure what you mean, analytics is not about having fancy facilities if anything that's mnore old school; it's more about r&d and data - it's why I mentioned the Rangers - I have no idea what facilities they have or don't have but I do know they went extremely heavy on the r&d side, like leading edge stuff r&d.

 

Yeah, this org promoted Don Mattingly this season. No chance they are on par with the top orgs in baseball in this category. I'm sure they have their own internal analytics and all that, but clearly whatever they have been doing since 2023 hasn't worked, and I wouldn't hold my breath on a team who intentionally gave Donnie Baseball more say in offensive strategy to be cutting edge on anything.

[G-Snarls]

Keegan just said on Twitter than Manoah is in the clubhouse in Washington.

 

Do they use him in long relief before giving him a start?

[hanton]

Keegan just said on Twitter than Manoah is in the clubhouse in Washington.

 

I hope he brouhgt his bat

[Spanky99]

Do they use him in long relief before giving him a start?

 

He's starting tomorrow.

[G-Snarls]

He's starting tomorrow.

 

Thanks. Hadn't heard.

[hanton]

If the game day preparation was s*** and actually affecting our players, don't we think a 39 year old vet like Turner would be like "WTF is this nonsense? This is wrong you dipshits" and he'd tell them exactly what information he needs to be successful and he'd tell them what his approach is?

 

Wouldn't all vets generally know what information they personally like to receive and what works for them? Some like all kinds of info, others don't as they get overloaded. Do you guys think Donny Baseball is shoving information down Springers throat and forcing it on him?

 

Don't we think they'd talk to Vlad about what info they gave him in 2021 and try going back to that?

 

I just don't see why a coaching staff would insist on using the same approach over and over when the results aren't there. It can't be overly difficult to monitor and share information about what pitchers are using which pitches to you in certain counts. That is pretty f***ing basic advanced scouting. It makes no sense to me that our coaches would look at all the very basic, readily available information and go "expect a slider in this situation", when in fact, more often than not, pitchers are throwing a fastball....and even if they did - after they are wrong and see the fastball a few times, the coaches would continue to tell them to forget about the fastball - a slider is coming.

 

Do people believe this is what's happening?

 

Not quite sure what you mean but the game prep might not be up to par with what other teams are doing.

 

Each player would have reports tailored to them - eg. a rookie would have reports where maybe it highlights his development and progression etc whereas a veteran like Turner would have reports detailed to his requirements (whatever those requirements are) then there would be reports specific to game strategy for JS/Pete Walker...etc

 

are u referring to the process, the data or ....?

[Spanky99]

If the game day preparation was s*** and actually affecting our players, don't we think a 39 year old vet like Turner would be like "WTF is this nonsense? This is wrong you dipshits" and he'd tell them exactly what information he needs to be successful and he'd tell them what his approach is?

 

Wouldn't all vets generally know what information they personally like to receive and what works for them? Some like all kinds of info, others don't as they get overloaded. Do you guys think Donny Baseball is shoving information down Springers throat and forcing it on him?

 

Don't we think they'd talk to Vlad about what info they gave him in 2021 and try going back to that?

 

I just don't see why a coaching staff would insist on using the same approach over and over when the results aren't there. It can't be overly difficult to monitor and share information about what pitchers are using which pitches to you in certain counts. That is pretty f***ing basic advanced scouting. It makes no sense to me that our coaches would look at all the very basic, readily available information and go "expect a slider in this situation", when in fact, more often than not, pitchers are throwing a fastball....and even if they did - after they are wrong and see the fastball a few times, the coaches would continue to tell them to forget about the fastball - a slider is coming.

 

Do people believe this is what's happening?

 

They just aren't executing with men on, but the ISO is a problem again too. Hopefully this changes, as for JT, apparently he's a big advocate in game planning, etc.

[Spanky99]

Thanks. Hadn't heard.

 

Zwelling wrote about it.

[G-Snarls]

To protest my sanity I've been paying less attention

[Jonn]

Manoah has one good start in AAA and hes just back lmao. I guess getting his s*** pounded in every other time was not a good enough indication.

[MikeM3]

Manoah has one good start in AAA and hes just back lmao. I guess getting his s*** pounded in every other time was not a good enough indication.

 

We got no one else. I expect him to spam sliders and inshallah

[Stottlemyres_Bloody_Chin]

Holy crap there's some negative posters around here but this really takes the cake. There has been a lack of recent post season success no doubt but how many post season appearances did JP teams have exactly?

 

 

Hahahahahaha you can't be serious?

[Spanky99]

Yeah, this org promoted Don Mattingly this season. No chance they are on par with the top orgs in baseball in this category. I'm sure they have their own internal analytics and all that, but clearly whatever they have been doing since 2023 hasn't worked, and I wouldn't hold my breath on a team who intentionally gave Donnie Baseball more say in offensive strategy to be cutting edge on anything.

 

James Click is our baseball strategist.

[BatFlip]

Manoah has one good start in AAA and hes just back lmao. I guess getting his s*** pounded in every other time was not a good enough indication.

 

 

Aren't you the same fortune teller who said "boot Varsho to the moon" and declared him worthless during the off-season?

 

I'm not feeling super optimistic about Manoah either, but frankly he's the best option they have right now.

[G-Snarls]

Aren't you the same fortune teller who said "boot Varsho to the moon" and declared him worthless during the off-season?

 

I'm not feeling super optimistic about Manoah either, but frankly he's the best option they have right now.

 

Tiedemann can f*** right off

 

[saskjayfan]

Manoah has one good start in AAA and hes just back lmao. I guess getting his s*** pounded in every other time was not a good enough indication.

 

He's been good in 2 of the last 3. April was his spring training essentially. Has last start wasn't just good or solid. His slider was utterly dominant. It didn't look like that last year. His velocity is up this year too. It's not like they had a bunch of great options for tomorrow. I'd have brought Manoah up too.

[BatFlip]

Tiedemann can f*** right off

 

He's busy massaging his ulnar nerve right now. He'll be wheeling and dealing in AAA shortly.... *gulp*

[leaffie]

Holy crap there's some negative posters around here but this really takes the cake. There has been a lack of recent post season success no doubt but how many post season appearances did JP teams have exactly?

 

Firstly, qualifying for the post season now is easier than in the Jp era. This is not just a lack of RECENT post season success. Making an expanded playoff and getting booted out without winning a single game with one of the highest payrolls is not any type of success.

 

The jays have done nothing in the Shapiro Era except disappoint.

[Brownie19]

Manoah has one good start in AAA and hes just back lmao. I guess getting his s*** pounded in every other time was not a good enough indication.

 

Dodgers are essentially taking the same approach with Walker Buehler.

[max silver]

Hahahahahaha you can't be serious?

 

Ok genius why don't you go ahead and inform me of what the JP era Blue Jays accomplished.

[Brownie19]

Ok genius why don't you go ahead and inform me of what the JP era Blue Jays accomplished.

 

Please god no. Just put him on the iggy list and move on please.

[connorp]

Dodgers are essentially taking the same approach with Walker Buehler.

 

Good players aren’t on rehabs to prove anything. Just to be sure they’re healthy.

[max silver]

Firstly, qualifying for the post season now is easier than in the Jp era. This is not just a lack of RECENT post season success. Making an expanded playoff and getting booted out without winning a single game with one of the highest payrolls is not any type of success.

 

The jays have done nothing in the Shapiro Era except disappoint.

 

JP's *best* team won 87 games and still likely wouldn't have made the playoffs a single time even with expanded playoffs. This doesn't really feel like an apples to apples comparison if you are going to legitimately say that JP had more success in his tenure as Blue Jays GM. That makes no sense whatsoever.

[MikeM3]

JP's *best* team won 87 games and still likely wouldn't have made the playoffs a single time even with expanded playoffs. This doesn't really feel like an apples to apples comparison if you are going to legitimately say that JP had more success in his tenure as Blue Jays GM. That makes no sense whatsoever.

 

Bottom half payroll is not apples to apples either

[Stangstag]

Dodgers are essentially taking the same approach with Walker Buehler.

 

Walker Buehler didn’t look like a #6 starter in his last MLB season though

[Stangstag]

Bottom half payroll is not apples to apples either

 

True, wonder what those mid 2000s teams could have done with a top 10 payroll