Jays Get Hicks from Cardinals

[The Cats Ass]

Name 1 prospect that AA traded that we regretted in 2015 lol.

 

In the end, seems like a good philosophy to try to capitalize on your windows while you can no matter the expense of your farm system. Let's go get a high end bat like Teo and keep pushing!!

 

Teoscar has been trash this year. Whatever the opposite of a high end bat is, that's what he is.

[The Cats Ass]

Noah Syndergaard easily an answer here if we are counting all of the prospects he traded. The ones traded specifically in 2015, I'm not sure about.

 

Joe Musgrove was another guy he moved. He totally botched the Roy Halladay trade. Atkins has seemed to make better trades so far.

[jaysblue]

Joe Musgrove was another guy he moved. He totally botched the Roy Halladay trade. Atkins has seemed to make better trades so far.

 

That was AA's first big move and it had to come right after he took over the GM seat, which is no easy task.

 

Travis d'Arnaud turned to be decent but yeah he was traded. Gose was traded for Devon Travis I believe but sucks injuries ended his career. Yeah no stud or anything.

 

Atkins didn't have to trade a franchise player for prospects when he took on the job. He actually was reluctant to as they botched the timing for JD and got nothing after. Atkins has never had to made a trade where he trades a superstar for prospects.

[Jonn]

Even with Romano injured and Chad Green on the way back. I still believe the Jays needed this level of impact reliever.

 

You can push guys like Swanson, Garcia, and Mayza into earlier roles. While you still have Trevor Richards for length or any situation he’s needed. But at the end of the game you will have Green, Hicks, and Romano. That’s an elite top end bullpen you want going into a playoff series where starters just don’t go as deep anymore. Especially how this team operates. You think Scheneider pulls guys early now. Just wait. Now you have the pieces in the pen to actually do that.

[jaysblue]

This trade is f*cking terrible. We didn't need another bullpen guy. Bullpen is fine.

 

Giving up two potential starters, for a two-months rental guy is assinine.

Then, factor in, that Hicks isn't actually all that good (career BB/9 over 5), and this trade is just ludicrously bad.

 

This is the kind of trade you make when you've been told that you're going to lose your job if you don't make the playoffs.

 

Are those two going to amount to anything anyways?

 

If the Jays don't make trades like this, they'll never improve and go deep into the Postseason. Hicks was a great add given the bullpen situation especially with Romano out!

[mphenhef]

Joe Musgrove was another guy he moved. He totally botched the Roy Halladay trade. Atkins has seemed to make better trades so far.

 

To be fair, Musgrove didn't really break out until 8 years after he was traded.

[BigCecil]

Joe Musgrove was another guy he moved. He totally botched the Roy Halladay trade. Atkins has seemed to make better trades so far.

 

That JD deal wasn't so bad. Giving up Thor and his 19 WAR to the Mets hurt. I think both AA and Ross's records are mixed. Which is pretty normal.

 

I think this Hicks move was "break glass in case of emergency".

 

We lack SP depth/development and thus bought a rotation. Even if these 2 are at best future 4-5-6s (like a Matt Boyd ish who AA dumped for Price rental) dumping them for a rental RP seems out of sync with this FO track record and comments. But I'll take it. We arent really sure what Greene will be like yet and no idea how long Romano will be out.

[Laika]

You might as well get used to Toronto's front office operating like this. It's actually an exciting organization to cheer for because of the inclination to trade.

 

They are not gun-shy at all. Big signings, big trades. They trade prospects all the time and use them as currency. But they aren't stupid and they will also go the other way and make little deals to bring in controllable talent or prospects, like the Teo trade for Swanson and Macko and the Tellez trade. And most of the time when a prospect is dealt there is a reason.

 

Lots of balls in the air, lots of things in motion all the time, but the emphasis is always on the MLB club. What's not to love about that?

 

You don't HAVE to clutch all your prospects forever when you can run a top 10 payroll. Let the other teams enjoy 3-4 optionable, league minimum years from an SP6 prospect like Kloffenstein...

 

So you don't really need to get bent out of shape about losing some depth SP prospects. I mean they brought in Adam Macko last offseason. It goes both ways.

[metafour]

That JD deal wasn't so bad. Giving up Thor and his 19 WAR to the Mets hurt. I think both AA and Ross's records are mixed. Which is pretty normal.

 

What is 'mixed' about Atkins' trade history? The Mitch White trade?

 

This FO clearly has a better read on their own prospects than the AA-led FO did. Sending Syndergaard instead of Sanchez is the perfect example: he misevaluated and sent the wrong guy. Allowing Musgrove to be a throw-in for Happ is another one. Atkins has made a lot of trades, and the underlying theme is that they're generally trading away surplus guys or guys who are on the precipice of losing lustre. They have a clear idea of who they want to keep and who is expendable; there seems to be less "guessing" which is generally what allows other teams to come in and scoop potentially elite talent away from you.

 

The worst part about AA's trades wasn't about what he gave up, it's that he turned a cheap and prospect-laden team into an old and extremely overpaid roster overnight, which gave the team little to no wiggle room. And the "stars" he was acquiring were generally all guys who were in clear decline. So he locked up all of his financial flexibility on guys like Reyes, Dickey, Tulowitzki, Buehrle, etc. which meant that when they needed to add more to fill gaps, he couldn't do it in free agency because Rogers wouldn't let him. Buehrle was at least good and provided value, but he was paid $19 mill and $20 mill in his final two seasons - he was hardly a "bargain". Reyes was a colossal mistake, and then they needed to trade even more prospects to get rid of him by turning the clock back a bit to acquire another anchor contract in Tulowitzki.

 

A guy like Daulton Varsho makes nothing. Even if he never bounces back with the bat (seems unlikely), at least you aren't crippling your roster by acquiring him. Same thing with Mitch White: yeah he sucked and you maybe traded a good prospect for him, but his failure doesn't limit your team in any way.

[Dr. Dinger]

Has Atkins traded any prospects that have panned out at all in his Jays tenure? Most of them lost 90% of their trade value within a year. I personally have a lot of confidence in Atkins’ ability to deal away the right prospects and hold the keepers. This window is a lot more finite than some people seem to believe, and chips need to be pushed in. Next year might very well be our last full season with Vlad and Bo, depending on how successful the team is. It’s not now or never, but it’s close.

[AdamGreenwood]

So, bullpen guys that are decent (in no particular order)

 

1 Erik Swanson: yes, he had a bad game, but he's still very solid.

2 Genesis Cabrera. Pretty similar to Hicks (lots of K, too many walks), but decent enough.

3 Jay Jackson: Small sample size, but the guy has been lights out.

4 Tim Mayza. ERA 1.22, 37 IP. Enough said.

5 Trevor Richards: the workhorse.

 

All of those guys could very well outperform Hicks over the next two months. We're overpaying because he throws fast. Great for potential, but we only have him for two months.

 

Others:

6) Chad Green (???)

7) Yimi Garcia: I don't trust Yimi, but can pretty much ensure they aren't gonna send him down.

8 Jordan Romano: yes, he is out for two weeks. The difference between Romano/Swanson over a two-week period isn't going to be that huge.

9) Nate Pearson: he's been bad lately. Needs to figure his s*** out in the minors.

10) One of our starters will likely be moved to long relief as I don't think we're gonna stick with 6 starters that long.

 

Are these two guys (Robberse, Kloffenstein) studs? No.

But, year after year, when the Blue Jays have an SP injury or meltdown, and we need a starter, we have very little in the way of depth options.

We need some AAAA pitchers in the system, and some of those guys are gonna turn into SP4 or SP5, which we desperately need.

[Dr. Dinger]

AG, there is an opportunity cost in both directions. Pearson is a perfect example. For all we know, Atkins refused to move him for a big deadline acquisition the past 3 seasons that could have put the team in a better position to advance in the playoffs. Now he’s flamed out, permanently a reliever, and probably on the verge of being moved for virtually nothing at the deadline anyway.

[BigCecil]

What is 'mixed' about Atkins' trade history? The Mitch White trade?

 

This FO clearly has a better read on their own prospects than the AA-led FO did. Sending Syndergaard instead of Sanchez is the perfect example: he misevaluated and sent the wrong guy. Allowing Musgrove to be a throw-in for Happ is another one. Atkins has made a lot of trades, and the underlying theme is that they're generally trading away surplus guys or guys who are on the precipice of losing lustre. They have a clear idea of who they want to keep and who is expendable; there seems to be less "guessing" which is generally what allows other teams to come in and scoop potentially elite talent away from you.

 

The worst part about AA's trades wasn't about what he gave up, it's that he turned a cheap and prospect-laden team into an old and extremely overpaid roster overnight, which gave the team little to no wiggle room. And the "stars" he was acquiring were generally all guys who were in clear decline. So he locked up all of his financial flexibility on guys like Reyes, Dickey, Tulowitzki, Buehrle, etc. which meant that when they needed to add more to fill gaps, he couldn't do it in free agency because Rogers wouldn't let him. Buehrle was at least good and provided value, but he was paid $19 mill and $20 mill in his final two seasons - he was hardly a "bargain". Reyes was a colossal mistake, and then they needed to trade even more prospects to get rid of him by turning the clock back a bit to acquire another anchor contract in Tulowitzki.

 

A guy like Daulton Varsho makes nothing. Even if he never bounces back with the bat (seems unlikely), at least you aren't crippling your roster by acquiring him. Same thing with Mitch White: yeah he sucked and you maybe traded a good prospect for him, but his failure doesn't limit your team in any way.

 

lol. I get your take. AA bad-Ross Ninja. I do agree Ross has a talent for making draft picks that don't work out (ya, most picks flame out for everyone) and then dumping them when that becomes apparent. Lets move on.

[glory]

The key with Atkins is going to be whether he can both maximize the team’s current window and sustain it beyond 2025. I’m more skeptical about the latter than the former, but now the Jays actually have legit position player options in AAA who are performing well and could fill 2024-beyond holes at the big league level. Whether those players will be used to fill big league holes next season or used in trades in the next 24 hours is the question. Atkins’ track record with trading prospects is pretty good so if he does trade someone who looks interesting then he has earned the benefit of the doubt but he’s going to need to hit on prospects for the Jays more often now.

[The Cats Ass]

Since middle of April to now Hicks has thrown better than Hader.

[Laika]

Hicks gets somewhat unfairly described as inconsistent

 

He has had fluctuating walk rates and injuries but his xERA range in his career is 2.41 to 3.91, and his FIP range in his career is 3.01 to 4.17

 

Lot of people just looking at ERA in 2022 and the 10 innings in 2021

[connorp]

Hicks gets somewhat unfairly described as inconsistent

 

He has had fluctuating walk rates and injuries but his xERA range in his career is 2.41 to 3.91, and his FIP range in his career is 3.01 to 4.17

 

Lot of people just looking at ERA in 2022 and the 10 innings in 2021

 

Not much difference between 2.41 ERA and 3.91, so it’s a good point

[Laika]

Not much difference between 2.41 ERA and 3.91, so it’s a good point

 

9-3-2

[connorp]

9-3-2

 

Rocky III

[Maine Jays]

If Hicks records the final out in the ALCS or WS, are any of you going to give a flying 'bleep' about what we gave up? I'm sure as hell not. Thirty years without a title, or even an appearance in the world series, is a long, damn time.

[kevb]

So, bullpen guys that are decent (in no particular order)

 

1 Erik Swanson: yes, he had a bad game, but he's still very solid.

2 Genesis Cabrera. Pretty similar to Hicks (lots of K, too many walks), but decent enough.

3 Jay Jackson: Small sample size, but the guy has been lights out.

4 Tim Mayza. ERA 1.22, 37 IP. Enough said.

5 Trevor Richards: the workhorse.

 

All of those guys could very well outperform Hicks over the next two months. We're overpaying because he throws fast. Great for potential, but we only have him for two months.

 

Others:

6) Chad Green (???)

7) Yimi Garcia: I don't trust Yimi, but can pretty much ensure they aren't gonna send him down.

8 Jordan Romano: yes, he is out for two weeks. The difference between Romano/Swanson over a two-week period isn't going to be that huge.

9) Nate Pearson: he's been bad lately. Needs to figure his s*** out in the minors.

10) One of our starters will likely be moved to long relief as I don't think we're gonna stick with 6 starters that long.

 

Are these two guys (Robberse, Kloffenstein) studs? No.

But, year after year, when the Blue Jays have an SP injury or meltdown, and we need a starter, we have very little in the way of depth options.

We need some AAAA pitchers in the system, and some of those guys are gonna turn into SP4 or SP5, which we desperately need.

 

So your solution is to do nothing but hoard very fringy prospects that most likely never make it even when your closer goes down in the middle of a playoff run?

 

They had to either be added to the 40 man this winter, or be eligible for the Rule 5 this winter, where they could be lost for nothing - especially when there are more deserving players needing protection.

 

That's even more of a bold move. It's called downright stupid asset management.

[Brownie19]

Teoscar has been trash this year. Whatever the opposite of a high end bat is, that's what he is.

 

Despite an awful year, he still has a 138 wRC+ v. LHP - so he's potentially still a good fit. Perhaps his overall shittiness means we can get him for nothing? We don't have a lot to trade and I'm not sure there are many options available (that fit our need and price).

 

Someone on here was predicting Teo would challenge for the AL MVP in his 'Contract Year'. So much for that.

[jerb]

 

Mitch Bannon

@MitchBannon

 

Jordan Hicks will wear #12 with the #BlueJays. Expect him to be activated for tonight’s game and be available out of the ‘pen.

[Spanky99]

Despite an awful year, he still has a 138 wRC+ v. LHP - so he's potentially still a good fit. Perhaps his overall shittiness means we can get him for nothing? We don't have a lot to trade and I'm not sure there are many options available (that fit our need and price).

 

Someone on here was predicting Teo would challenge for the AL MVP in his 'Contract Year'. So much for that.

 

Who predict that? I'd take Teo as a bat down the stretch, no doubt.

[BigCecil]

Despite an awful year, he still has a 138 wRC+ v. LHP - so he's potentially still a good fit. Perhaps his overall shittiness means we can get him for nothing? We don't have a lot to trade and I'm not sure there are many options available (that fit our need and price).

 

Someone on here was predicting Teo would challenge for the AL MVP in his 'Contract Year'. So much for that.

 

Ya, I don't why some people assume when someone is having a good walk year that its because its a walk year. The opposite happens a lot. LGJ and Teo have both had bad years to walk on and it happens a lot. LGJ has been semi s*** awhile now after a hot start.

 

I'd take Teo back in a heart beat to DH/LF and hit LHP. But i think its a pipe dream. I guess we will know soon enough.

[Jonn]

 

Mitch Bannon

@MitchBannon

 

Jordan Hicks will wear #12 with the #BlueJays. Expect him to be activated for tonight’s game and be available out of the ‘pen.

 

Damn Robbie Almoar’s jersey got unretired. I still remember when they said nobody would wear #12 again lol.

[Spanky99]

Ya, I don't why some people assume when someone is having a good walk year that its because its a walk year. The opposite happens a lot. LGJ and Teo have both had bad years to walk on and it happens a lot. LGJ has been semi s*** awhile now after a hot start.

 

I'd take Teo back in a heart beat to DH/LF and hit LHP. But i think its a pipe dream. I guess we will know soon enough.

 

T - 21.5 Hrs

[Omar]

Damn Robbie Almoar’s jersey got unretired. I still remember when they said nobody would wear #12 again lol.

 

sacrilege!

[Stangstag]

Damn Robbie Almoar’s jersey got unretired. I still remember when they said nobody would wear #12 again lol.

 

Lolll damn

[infinitebook]

Whatever Robbie did, he's still the only one in the HoF with a Blue Jays cap on his plaque.