GDT: Astros @ Jays Game 1 of 4... LETS MAKE IT 5 BABY!!!

[Stottlemyres_Bloody_Chin]

God you are the most biased moron I’ve ever come across in my life. Manoah is absolute trash feces covered zero redemption ass smelling trash. Stop making excuses for him. Does he wack it to the wiener pics you send him on Twitter? Does he send you naked pictures of himself choking on Cheetos? Is that why you love him so much? If you were in front of me I would slap you around for the dumb s*** you say. You make us all look bad.

 

 

Post of the year! LOL

[max silver]

I've said it before, we got Ricky Romero 2.0.

 

Romero foolishly chose to pitch through injured knees and ended up ruining his career as a result. Hopefully this isn't the case with Alek.

[Brownie19]

Also why do we refuse to use position players to pitch instead of wasting decent arms??

 

Good teams like the Rays do it… actually seems like EVERY team does it except the Jays

 

Don't you have to be losing or winning by 10 runs to use a positional player? I thought I heard them say the Varsho HR forced the Jays to use a real pitcher in the 9th...

[Brownie19]

Really bad press conf by Schneider.

 

Sounds like they’re going to keep it status quo.

 

It turns out that you don't have to tell the truth or tell the media what you're really thinking in a press conference. It's sad some still don't really grasp this.

[Brownie19]

4 seasons ago? You clearly have no clue what you're talking about. He signed his contract with the Cubs 1 and a half seasons ago.

 

Reading is difficult eh? JH's quote is in response to your bitching about how Atkins struggles to add enough depth to the team - it had nothing to do with Stroman. It's f***ing hilarious you think Atkins can't add enough depth...if you wanted to see a lack of depth, go take a look at the teams that AA put on the field. This is easily one of the deepest Blue Jay teams in the past 20 years.

[jaysblue]

Reading is difficult eh? JH's quote is in response to your bitching about how Atkins struggles to add enough depth to the team - it had nothing to do with Stroman. It's f***ing hilarious you think Atkins can't add enough depth...if you wanted to see a lack of depth, go take a look at the teams that AA put on the field. This is easily one of the deepest Blue Jay teams in the past 20 years.

 

If the Jays lose Gausman, Bassitt or Berrios to the IL, who takes their spot?

 

This team has been reluctant to send down Manoah for the exact same reason - not any viable arms that could step in. They were supposed to have enough depth with White, Thompson, Francis, Tiedemann was supposed to be waiting in the wings, Zulu etc. So who is to blame for that?

 

Blue Jays are one or two injuries away in their rotation from turning into a complete disaster. They've been extremely lucky thus far!

[max silver]

If the Jays lose Gausman, Bassitt or Berrios to the IL, who takes their spot?

 

This team has been reluctant to send down Manoah for the exact same reason - not any viable arms that could step in. They were supposed to have enough depth with White, Thompson, Francis, Tiedemann was supposed to be waiting in the wings, Zulu etc. So who is to blame for that?

 

Blue Jays are one or two injuries away in their rotation from turning into a complete disaster. They've been extremely lucky thus far!

 

White, Francis and Tiedemann all saw their timelines pushed back due to injury. Zulueta got hurt and forgot how to throw strikes. It seems kind of unfair to blame the organization for that. Hutchison was hurt as well so same deal there. There was certainly the possibility that Thompson would continue to be bad, but he was pretty good as soon as 2021 so it seemed like a reasonable gamble. I think the organization did a decent job trying to assemble depth, but unfortunately most of these guys suffered injury and/or ineffectiveness. s*** happens sometimes where even well laid plans end up going awry.

[Laika]

Same story as last year. You cannot assemble SP depth season-to-season.

 

The only way to assemble quality SP depth is to be overflowing with viable SP prospects in the upper minors so that you tend to have one healthy and throwing well when you need them.

 

But I wouldn't start complaining about the "what ifs" until they happen. Yes Manoah sucks and should be demoted.

 

But the Jays SP strategy for depth also relies a lot on just riding their horses who have track records of health. Maybe they think their starting five have a high chance of staying healthy. Maybe the team is right about that.

[Stangstag]

Don't you have to be losing or winning by 10 runs to use a positional player? I thought I heard them say the Varsho HR forced the Jays to use a real pitcher in the 9th...

 

Rays game was 10-1 when they used Raley no?

[Laika]

I doubt that the quality of arms in AAA/AA has anything to do with the decision on sending down Manoah. I would guarantee that said decision has been 100% about Manoah.

[Brownie19]

If the Jays lose Gausman, Bassitt or Berrios to the IL, who takes their spot?

 

This team has been reluctant to send down Manoah for the exact same reason - not any viable arms that could step in. They were supposed to have enough depth with White, Thompson, Francis, Tiedemann was supposed to be waiting in the wings, Zulu etc. So who is to blame for that?

 

Blue Jays are one or two injuries away in their rotation from turning into a complete disaster. They've been extremely lucky thus far!

 

This is true for most good, playoff teams man. Arms like White, Francis, Thompson, Hatch and Hutchison, plus prospects like Tiedemann, Zulu and even Robberse in the upper minors and the potential return of Ryu is exactly what good SP depth looks like on paper. That put us at like 12-14 starters deep. Sure you can tell me you knew Hatch, Hutchison and Thompson were going to suck tiddies, but every SP11-14 in baseball sucks tiddies. We all need to remember that 'decent' starters don't want to sign with a team to be their #7 starter, while pitching in AAA, waiting for an opportunity...they'll sign with s***** teams like the A's or Nationals instead so they are in the majors. All you can do is try to find good fits and keep developing options in the upper minors and hope a few are throwing well when you need them.

 

Why do all the other options suck right now? I don't know - people fail at baseball every single day. It's a difficult game. Unfortunately, instead of injuries plaguing our starting rotation, they've affected our depth with White, Francis, Tiedemann + others getting hurt. Why does Zulu suddenly suck and can't throw strikes? I don't know - there are several factors that may be affecting him and I'm sure the team is doing everything they can to help correct it.

 

There's a lot of luck and timing involved in baseball. Even if we entered the year thinking there was an 80% chance we had sufficient depth to cover some injuries at the ML level - and that probability was one of the very best in baseball - there was still a 20% chance we didn't and we may very well be seeing that probability playing out. We need to stop pretending that we all knew Ricky T, Francis and White would be injured at the exact time we could really use one of them to step in for Manoah and that it was obvious Zulu would walk 8 per 9 this year and thus we needed way more starting pitching depth.

 

Trying to find someone to blame for this is stupid. That said, the FO does need to react to this very unfortunate and s***** situation and should be flipping tables looking for a solution and I fully expect they are.

Edited June 6, 2023 by Brownie19

[Brownie19]

Rays game was 10-1 when they used Raley no?

 

Positional players can pitch when a team is leading by 10 or more runs in the 9th or when they are losing by 8 or more runs at any time, or when the game is in extra innings. Therefore the Varsho HR made the differential <8 and thus we needed a real pitcher.

[Laika]

Just send Manoah down and call up Francis if he is healthy. If he's not, call up Kloffenstein.

 

Easy decision.

 

Why is everyone even complaining about depth? Ryu is coming back, Tieds will be back, Francis is throwing okay in limited innings, Kloffenstein in AA is doing very well. The Jays are okay, maybe, if they need a long term promotion or two.

 

And if they need a spot start or bullpen game they have all those shittier names... along with potential interesting bullpen game options in Pearson/Richards/Zulueta/Juenger etc.

 

They could probably ask Richards + Pearson for 5 innings in replace of Manoah's next start, if they want.

[jaysblue]

Same story as last year. You cannot assemble SP depth season-to-season.

 

The only way to assemble quality SP depth is to be overflowing with viable SP prospects in the upper minors so that you tend to have one healthy and throwing well when you need them.

 

But I wouldn't start complaining about the "what ifs" until they happen. Yes Manoah sucks and should be demoted.

 

But the Jays SP strategy for depth also relies a lot on just riding their horses who have track records of health. Maybe they think their starting five have a high chance of staying healthy. Maybe the team is right about that.

 

Yeah even though Manoah has sucked, it's quite impressive that each member of their starting rotation has made their start and hasn't missed a turn over the first two months of the season. You can't say that about many teams, if any at all.

[jaysblue]

This is true for most good, playoff teams man. Arms like White, Francis, Thompson, Hatch and Hutchison, plus prospects like Tiedemann, Zulu and even Robberse in the upper minors and the potential return of Ryu is exactly what good SP depth looks like on paper. That put us at like 12-14 starters deep. Sure you can tell me you know Hatch, Hutchison and Thompson were going to suck tiddies, but every SP11-14 in baseball sucks tiddies. If you don't think so - please cite the playoff caliber teams who all have significantly better SP depth. We all need to remember that 'decent' starters don't want to sign with a team to be their #7 starter, while pitching in AAA, waiting for an opportunity...they'll sign with s***** teams like the A's or Nationals instead so they are in the majors.

 

Why do all the other options suck? I don't know - people fail at baseball every single f***ing day. It's a difficult game. Unfortunately, instead of injuries plaguing our starting rotation, they've affected our depth with White, Francis and Tiedemann getting hurt. If you know how to predict injuries to pitchers - you wouldn't be posting on a message board. Why does Zulu suddenly suck and can't throw strikes? I don't know - there are several factors that may be affecting him and I'm sure the team is doing everything they can to help correct it.

 

There's a lot of luck and timing involved in baseball. Even if we entered the year thinking there was an 80% chance we had sufficient depth to cover some injuries at the ML level - and that probability was one of the very best in baseball - there was still a 20% chance we didn't and we may very well be seeing that probability playing out. We need to stop pretending that we all knew Ricky T, Francis and White would be injured at the exact time we could really use one of them to step in for Manoah and that it was obvious Zulu would walk 8 per 9 this year and thus we needed way more starting pitching depth.

 

Trying to find someone to blame for this is stupid. That said, the FO does need to react to this very unfortunate and s***** situation and should be flipping tables looking for a solution and I fully expect they are.

 

Yeah hopefully the FO is looking at an arm like Plesac or maybe a veteran arm from a rebuilding team like the Nats, or A's, just to eat up some innings in the short term if need be.

 

Everything is timing agreed. It's bad timing that all those arms are injured all at once. Can't do much. With Manoah being awful, Jays definitely could have used some of that depth.

 

Gausman, Bassitt and Berrios all have been rock solid this season. You should be able to replace a Kikuchi if need be or improve on what Manoah has done. Though replacing one of those three arms would be tough. I know it's a "What If" though with the lack of depth options available, hopefully this FO looks at ways to resolve the issue. Ryu definitely can be one piece of the puzzle when he's ready, though perhaps this team could also look at adding another No. 2/3 starter closer to the trade deadline so this isn't a concern down the stretch or in the Postseason.

[jaysblue]

Yeah Jays can do a bullpen game a couple turns through the rotation. Have someone like Cimber, Bass or Garcia open the game for you. Pearson or Richards as your bulk relievers who can go around 3 innings following them. Save Mayza, Swanson, Romero and two of Bass, Cimber, Garcia (whichever one isn't used as an opener) for the later innings.

[Laika]

Unique Players with 1+ GS

 

5: TOR,

6: WSH, PIT

7: BAL, STL, SDP, TEX, MIN, CHW

8: LAA, HOU, CHC, ARZ, LAD, SFG, BOS, DET, NYY

9: MIL, CLE, NYM, PHI

10: SEA, MIA

11: OAK, ATL, CIN, COL

12: TBR, KCR

[Jays333]

This is true for most good, playoff teams man. Arms like White, Francis, Thompson, Hatch and Hutchison, plus prospects like Tiedemann, Zulu and even Robberse in the upper minors and the potential return of Ryu is exactly what good SP depth looks like on paper. That put us at like 12-14 starters deep. Sure you can tell me you knew Hatch, Hutchison and Thompson were going to suck tiddies, but every SP11-14 in baseball sucks tiddies. We all need to remember that 'decent' starters don't want to sign with a team to be their #7 starter, while pitching in AAA, waiting for an opportunity...they'll sign with s***** teams like the A's or Nationals instead so they are in the majors. All you can do is try to find good fits and keep developing options in the upper minors and hope a few are throwing well when you need them.

 

Why do all the other options suck right now? I don't know - people fail at baseball every single day. It's a difficult game. Unfortunately, instead of injuries plaguing our starting rotation, they've affected our depth with White, Francis, Tiedemann + others getting hurt. Why does Zulu suddenly suck and can't throw strikes? I don't know - there are several factors that may be affecting him and I'm sure the team is doing everything they can to help correct it.

 

There's a lot of luck and timing involved in baseball. Even if we entered the year thinking there was an 80% chance we had sufficient depth to cover some injuries at the ML level - and that probability was one of the very best in baseball - there was still a 20% chance we didn't and we may very well be seeing that probability playing out. We need to stop pretending that we all knew Ricky T, Francis and White would be injured at the exact time we could really use one of them to step in for Manoah and that it was obvious Zulu would walk 8 per 9 this year and thus we needed way more starting pitching depth.

 

Trying to find someone to blame for this is stupid. That said, the FO does need to react to this very unfortunate and s***** situation and should be flipping tables looking for a solution and I fully expect they are.

 

The Yankees, Dodgers, Rays, Astros, Braves all deal with starting pitching injuries no problem at all because their farm systems and development are so good. Why can't we be like them? There is no reason we can't.

 

The average fan can see that Atkins body of work has produced a house of cards. Pretty good starting roster that can compete, with little to no depth at most positions especially all facets of pitching. It could sink the team at any time with injuries and could sink the team in the near future with player departures. Its already become a problem with one SP being terrible. While the Yankees and Rays and Dodgers just plug and play young guys and keep rolling.

 

Atkins can easily be blamed, all you have to do is look at the best teams in the league and ask why we cant be like them. Atkins blows.

[jaysblue]

The Yankees, Dodgers, Rays, Astros, Braves all deal with starting pitching injuries no problem at all because their farm systems and development are so good. Why can't we be like them? There is no reason we can't.

 

The average fan can see that Atkins body of work has produced a house of cards. Pretty good starting roster that can compete, with little to no depth at most positions especially all facets of pitching. It could sink the team at any time with injuries and could sink the team in the near future with player departures. Its already become a problem with one SP being terrible. While the Yankees and Rays and Dodgers just plug and play young guys and keep rolling.

 

Atkins can easily be blamed, all you have to do is look at the best teams in the league and ask why we cant be like them. Atkins blows.

 

The Jays definitely need to develop a better pipeline of arms who can pitch in the Majors. Unfortunately some of those young arms are injured now so not the best timing.

 

But yeah Jays can't go out and sign fringe No. 5 starters and keep them down in Buffalo for a majority of the season. Not many of those arms would sign up for that. A lot of those arms prefer signing with teams like the Nats, Royals, A's etc., because they know they'll pitch at the MLB level for a majority of the season.

 

Atkins has done a great job with his signings of Gausman especially and Bassitt. Berrios is looking like he's turned the corner. Kikuchi has been meh but holding his own as a No. 5 starter. Overall, the Jays arms at the big league level have been able to stay healthy which is great. So the FO evaluation on those arms has been good.

[Brownie19]

The Yankees, Dodgers, Rays, Astros, Braves all deal with starting pitching injuries no problem at all because their farm systems and development are so good. Why can't we be like them? There is no reason we can't.

 

The average fan can see that Atkins body of work has produced a house of cards. Pretty good starting roster that can compete, with little to no depth at most positions especially all facets of pitching. It could sink the team at any time with injuries and could sink the team in the near future with player departures. Its already become a problem with one SP being terrible. While the Yankees and Rays and Dodgers just plug and play young guys and keep rolling.

 

Atkins can easily be blamed, all you have to do is look at the best teams in the league and ask why we cant be like them. Atkins blows.

 

Yankees

 

Jhony Brito - 9 GS, 5.32 xFIP, -0.1 WAR

Randy Vasquez - 1 GS, 6.30 xFIP, -0.1 WAR

 

Rays

 

Josh Fleming - 3 GS, 5.67 xFIP, -0.7 WAR

Trevor Kelley - 3 GS, 5.80 xFIP, -0.2 WAR

Calvin Faucher - 4 GS, 5.21 ERA, 0.0 WAR

 

Braves

 

Mike Soroka - 2 GS, 6.37 xFIP, -0.3 WAR

Dylan Dodd - 4 GS, 5.91 xFIP, -0.2 WAR

Jared Shuster - 6 GS, 6.19 xFIP (6.16 K/9, 5.58 BB/9)

 

Houston

 

Jose Urquidy - 6 GS, 5.10 xFIP, 0.0 WAR

Brandon Bielak - 6 GS, 5.47 xERA, 5.22 FIP, 0.0 WAR

 

Dodgers

 

Noah f***ing Syndergaard, 11 GS, 6.54 ERA

Michael Grove, 5 GS, 8.14 ERA

Gavin Stone, 3 GS, 14.40 ERA, 6.28 xFIP

 

I see no reason we can't be just like those teams and run a bunch of depth starters out there too and watch them struggle...

 

And again, if Ricky T was healthy and dominating, or White/Francis was healthy and one of those guys stepped in 3 weeks ago to replace Manoah, everyone would be praising Atkins for the depth he created in the minors. It's really unfortunate that all 3 have been hurt at a time when we really need them to help the big club. And with that said, there's still a distinct possibility the FO wouldn't have been prepared to demote Manoah then anyway (and they still may not be).

Edited June 6, 2023 by Brownie19

[Carlos Danger]

Yankees

 

Jhony Brito - 9 GS, 5.32 xFIP, -0.1 WAR

Randy Vasquez - 1 GS, 6.30 xFIP, -0.1 WAR

 

Rays

 

Josh Fleming - 3 GS, 5.67 xFIP, -0.7 WAR

Trevor Kelley - 3 GS, 5.80 xFIP, -0.2 WAR

Calvin Faucher - 4 GS, 5.21 ERA, 0.0 WAR

 

Braves

 

Mike Soroka - 2 GS, 6.37 xFIP, -0.3 WAR

Dylan Dodd - 4 GS, 5.91 xFIP, -0.2 WAR

Jared Shuster - 6 GS, 6.19 xFIP (6.16 K/9, 5.58 BB/9)

 

Houston

 

Jose Urquidy - 6 GS, 5.10 xFIP, 0.0 WAR

Brandon Bielak - 6 GS, 5.47 xERA, 5.22 FIP, 0.0 WAR

 

Dodgers

 

Noah f***ing Syndergaard, 11 GS, 6.54 ERA

Michael Grove, 5 GS, 8.14 ERA

Gavin Stone, 3 GS, 14.40 ERA, 6.28 xFIP

 

I see no reason we can't be just like those teams and run a bunch of depth starters out there too and watch them struggle...

 

And again, if Ricky T was healthy and dominating, or White/Francis was healthy and one of those guys stepped in 3 weeks ago to replace Manoah, everyone would be praising Atkins for the depth he created in the minors. It's really unfortunate that all 3 have been hurt at a time when we really need them to help the big club. And with that said, there's still a distinct possibility the FO wouldn't have been prepared to demote Manoah then anyway (and they still may not be).

 

This is not accurate.. Domingo German was not going to be in the 5 man if not for injuries.. You forgot Miller and Pepiot for the Dodgers..

 

Cristian Javier was in the pen last year for the Astros and you left out Hunter Brown.. I can go on and on... This is NOT an accurate assement so how can we take it for any value?

[Brownie19]

This is not accurate.. Domingo German was not going to be in the 5 man if not for injuries.. You forgot Miller and Pepiot for the Dodgers..

 

Cristian Javier was in the pen last year for the Astros and you left out Hunter Brown.. I can go on and on... This is NOT an accurate assement so how can we take it for any value?

 

The man suggested those teams all deal with starting pitching injuries "no problem at all". Each team has given 10 to 19 starts to pitchers who have been bad this year. I don't consider that to be "no problem at all". Even the best teams don't have unlimited resources and a bus full of guys who step right in and give them a ton of quality starts. The Dodgers have literally given 19 of their 60 starts (32%) to a collection of absolute bums. Nobody is going to tell me they've had "no problem at all". Even the best teams in baseball are rolling out a bunch of stiffs 15-20% of their starts.

 

I think if/when they Jays need them (and they are healthy), they can roll out Ricky T, White, Francis, Thompson, etc. with similar results.

 

Oh - and Ryan Pepiot has been hurt all year and hasn't thrown a pitch yet.

Edited June 6, 2023 by Brownie19

[Carlos Danger]

The man suggested those teams all deal with starting pitching injuries "no problem at all". Each team has given 10 to 19 starts to pitchers who have been bad this year. I don't consider that to be "no problem at all". Even the best teams don't have unlimited resources and a bus full of guys who step right in and give them a ton of quality starts.

 

I think if/when they Jays need them (and they are healthy), they can roll out Ricky T, White, Francis, Thompson, etc. with similar results.

 

Oh - and Ryan Pepiot sucks dick - I should have included him above. 7GS, 6.69 BB/9 5.31 xFIP, -0.1 WAR

 

Going into the year, Stone was a topped ranked SP spec, as was Miller and Pepiot was thought of highly... Just because Stone sucked in some starts doesn't mean that wasn't a viable depth plan. It would be same as Tideman except they had/have three...

 

Tiedeman was/is our depth plan... White sucked last year... Francis was nowhere near as regarded as the three Dodgers pitchers I mentioned.

 

So, haveing what you think is viable depth vs perfomance is two different things. The Dodgers and the Yankees both had much more viable depth than us on paper prior to injuries and performance. Haveing that depth allows for a margin of error. Stone sucks, ok. Miller comes in and pitches 6 innings of 1 hit ball against the Yankees or whatever the pitching line was.

 

Domingo German goes into the rotation and gives a bunch of solid starts....

 

I think the OP saying no problem is a an overstatement.. However, the viable depth on all those teams was and is much better than the Jays. It was obvious pre-season as it was the season prior...

[John_Havok]

Going into the year, Stone was a topped ranked SP spec, as was Miller and Pepiot was thought of highly... Just because Stone sucked in some starts doesn't mean that wasn't a viable depth plan. It would be same as Tideman except they had/have three...

 

Tiedeman was/is our depth plan... White sucked last year... Francis was nowhere near as regarded as the three Dodgers pitchers I mentioned.

 

So, haveing what you think is viable depth vs perfomance is two different things. The Dodgers and the Yankees both had much more viable depth than us on paper prior to injuries and performance. Haveing that depth allows for a margin of error. Stone sucks, ok. Miller comes in and pitches 6 innings of 1 hit ball against the Yankees or whatever the pitching line was.

 

Domingo German goes into the rotation and gives a bunch of solid starts....

 

I think the OP saying no problem is a an overstatement.. However, the viable depth on all those teams was and is much better than the Jays. It was obvious pre-season as it was the season prior...

 

There's a real disconnect between the point you think youre making and the point you're making.

[Laika]

Going into the year, Stone was a topped ranked SP spec, as was Miller and Pepiot was thought of highly... Just because Stone sucked in some starts doesn't mean that wasn't a viable depth plan. It would be same as Tideman except they had/have three...

 

Tiedeman was/is our depth plan... White sucked last year... Francis was nowhere near as regarded as the three Dodgers pitchers I mentioned.

 

So, haveing what you think is viable depth vs perfomance is two different things. The Dodgers and the Yankees both had much more viable depth than us on paper prior to injuries and performance. Haveing that depth allows for a margin of error. Stone sucks, ok. Miller comes in and pitches 6 innings of 1 hit ball against the Yankees or whatever the pitching line was.

 

Domingo German goes into the rotation and gives a bunch of solid starts....

 

I think the OP saying no problem is a an overstatement.. However, the viable depth on all those teams was and is much better than the Jays. It was obvious pre-season as it was the season prior...

 

I would disagree here because you are ignoring injury risk in the top 5.

 

The Yankees NEED significantly better options 6-10 because they roster guys like Carlos Rodon and Luis Severino. Similarly the Dodgers employ a whole list of pitchers with injury histories.

 

Injury risk is part of depth.

 

I don't want to tempt fate here but Toronto has had the healthiest rotation in baseball and it's not entirely random. Guys like Gausman and Bassitt and Berrios and maybe even Kikuchi were chosen in part for their health track record. It's a major part of the calculus when Toronto signs FA pitchers.

 

Brownie has demonstrated that these teams have already had to dip to "bad depth". So they aren't doing any better than Toronto on depth this year, despite having more names.

[Carlos Danger]

I would disagree here because you are ignoring injury risk in the top 5.

 

The Yankees NEED significantly better options 6-10 because they roster guys like Carlos Rodon and Luis Severino. Similarly the Dodgers employ a whole list of pitchers with injury histories.

 

Injury risk is part of depth.

 

I don't want to tempt fate here but Toronto has had the healthiest rotation in baseball and it's not entirely random. Guys like Gausman and Bassitt and Berrios and maybe even Kikuchi were chosen in part for their health track record. It's a major part of the calculus when Toronto signs FA pitchers.

 

Brownie has demonstrated that these teams have already had to dip to "bad depth". So they aren't doing any better than Toronto on depth this year, despite having more names.

 

Ok, so what about the fact that no one knew which Kikuchi we were going to get this year. The odds were based on last year he would not be good. Yet, that was a known variable. So that is really starting the year with 4 reliable SPs, not even talking about depth for a 5 man rotation yet.

 

Then there is a the high probabliity of regression, one of the top 4 not performing up to expectations... I talked about this and depth pre-season with the same the pitching is rosy group.

 

Well, we have had regression.. Regression to the damn A ball complex.. Some poster here said Kickuchi will be an All-star this year. I agreed with the poster, he could, but then I think he will suck real bad 2nd half, a la Seattle. Kickuchi has not shown he can be a sustainable full season option yet.... Get ready for 2nd half Kikuchi...

 

Good news is Thompson although he sucked in May, has had two decent starts in June. He also has been a viable SP at the MLB level.

 

The pitching depth, lack of also has a direct corelation on the pen as we all know. The reason we are in second to last place in the divison and we were in last is not due to some offensive slumps...

[Laika]

Ok, so what about the fact that no one knew which Kikuchi we were going to get this year. The odds were based on last year he would not be good. Yet, that was a known variable. So that is really starting the year with 4 reliable SPs, not even talking about depth for a 5 man rotation yet.

 

Then there is a the high probabliity of regression, one of the top 4 not performing up to expectations... I talked about this and depth pre-season with the same the pitching is rosy group.

 

Well, we have had regression.. Regression to the damn A ball complex.. Some poster here said Kickuchi will be an All-star this year. I agreed with the poster, he could, but then I think he will suck real bad 2nd half, a la Seattle. Kickuchi has not shown he can be a sustainable full season option yet.... Get ready for 2nd half Kikuchi...

 

Good news is Thompson although he sucked in May, has had two decent starts in June. He also has been a viable SP at the MLB level.

 

The pitching depth, lack of also has a direct corelation on the pen as we all know. The reason we are in second to last place in the divison and we were in last is not due to some offensive slumps...

 

Sorry Carlos, this is f***ing stupid.

 

Even with Manoah being HORRENDOUS I think the Toronto SP group leads MLB in innings pitched. So don't f***ing talk to me about:

"The pitching depth, lack of also has a direct corelation on the pen as we all know."

 

do your homework!

[jaysblue]

Everyone in the Jays rotation has stayed healthy but that doesn't mean they're not playing on thin ice.

 

Like Carlos said, Kikuchi was more of a question mark heading into this season as the No. 5 starter and lets not forget how some people wrote off Berrios after his poor 2022 season.

 

Manoah, who was supposed to be a No. 2 guy is now out of the rotation and was hurting this team more than helping this season. He regressed more than anyone on here thought he would. Kikuchi is still a wildcard IMO but so far he's holding more than his own but he could also become a dumpster fire anytime.

 

Gausman, Bassitt and Berrios have been rock solid. Berrios returning to his previous form has been so important and it doesn't get discussed enough.

 

Injuries can happen with any pitcher or even a freak injury. Gausman/Bassitt and Berrios are holding this rotation together. If one of those cards fall, it could get ugly.