Jays 2023 Pen - Good or Good Enough?

[bones10]

So Bass?

 

I think that would of been better, yeah. Although I know your gotcha is he gave up a bomb later the game, I don't think that impacts the decision at the time. If Swanson or Garcia was available they would of been better options as well.

[Stangstag]

Yeah, I think we throw Ryu out with the bathwater. I don't want to see him again. Chad Green is definitely the x factor. Even if we only get 75% of the Green from 21/22, he moves up in our depth chart drastically.

 

The interesting thing to note is that we will definitely see Pearson up, but can he stick? To be determined I guess. I think at some point they should give Zulueta a shot. They are stretching him out in Buffalo and if he can get his walk rate down why not bring him up as long relief? I'm not sanguine on our long relief as the bullpen currently stands.

 

Bottom line, as it stands today our pen is adequate but not good enough to push for a championship.

 

Have you heard of the 2022 Phillies

[Spanky99]

I think that would of been better, yeah. Although I know your gotcha is he gave up a bomb later the game, I don't think that impacts the decision at the time. If Swanson or Garcia was available they would of been better options as well.

 

It wasn't a gotcha moment, lol. I was just merely asking.

[Jays24]

Said it many times but average isn't good enough. When you get into a short series with the elite teams, we clearly don't measure up and that's what matters to me.

 

I don't care about having a better bullpen than s*** teams. When you got a 200M payroll, you should have an above average bullpen.

[Omar]

Have you heard of the 2022 Phillies

 

I recall that they had Aaron Nola, Ranger Suarez, Wheeler and Gibson who started games for them and finished in the top 5 in mlb for innings pitched by starters, taking the workload off their pen. You think our starters will have the same effect this year? Doubtful.

[jaysblue]

Have you heard of the 2022 Phillies

 

Phillies had some high strikeout arms in their pen last season.

[jaysblue]

Bullpen is good enough and has enough depth to get by over the 162 game season.

 

In a short series against another elite team during the Postseason, not so much. It's not Championship caliber the way it is now that's for sure.

 

Chad Green and Nate Pearson can be the difference makers. If both of them are on top of their game, definitely transforms this bullpen.

 

Bring up Pearson at the end of April. Use him in low leverage situations at first. Let him get comfortable and if he is having success, can move him up the depth charts. Pearson is going to take time, can't just expect to throw him into the fire come August.

[Deadpool]

I think we've got a reasonably high floor for the bullpen. There's nobody that will come in now where I'm terrified every time (still terrified sometimes depending on how Trouty the batter is, obviously...).

 

Richards is probably the first one gone for me, but I suspect we can move him for something, rather than just DFA and waive, when the time is right. He's a good arm, just bottom rung for me.

 

The other day on the radio, I heard a suggestion that they should swap out Pop and Pearson, and have Pop close all season in AAA. He's certainly got the stuff to be a dominant high leverage guy, but the results aren't there yet, so maybe some seasoning in that role might be a decent idea.

 

Green and Pearson are going to raise both the floor and the ceiling of the pen, when they're ready (and I think Pearson is ready now, personally...)

[John_Havok]

I think we've got a reasonably high floor for the bullpen. There's nobody that will come in now where I'm terrified every time (still terrified sometimes depending on how Trouty the batter is, obviously...).

 

Richards is probably the first one gone for me, but I suspect we can move him for something, rather than just DFA and waive, when the time is right. He's a good arm, just bottom rung for me.

 

The other day on the radio, I heard a suggestion that they should swap out Pop and Pearson, and have Pop close all season in AAA. He's certainly got the stuff to be a dominant high leverage guy, but the results aren't there yet, so maybe some seasoning in that role might be a decent idea.

 

Green and Pearson are going to raise both the floor and the ceiling of the pen, when they're ready (and I think Pearson is ready now, personally...)

 

I disagree that Pop has the stuff to be a high leverage guy, he can't miss bats nearly well enough to be a high leverage arm. Pop could be an excellent multi-inning guy though that limits hard contact, but when he's on the hill, there's going to be balls put into play. he's certainly not a guy I want to bring in with runners on base.

[Spanky99]

I disagree that Pop has the stuff to be a high leverage guy, he can't miss bats nearly well enough to be a high leverage arm. Pop could be an excellent multi-inning guy though that limits hard contact, but when he's on the hill, there's going to be balls put into play. he's certainly not a guy I want to bring in with runners on base.

 

He's got the arm too, a few tweaks and it could get there, his slider is sick. Pearson for Pop should be the first move for the pen, I'd assume. Not a bad idea.

[Grant77]

I find it interesting that everyone wants more velocity and then wants to demote Pop, the second hardest thrower on the team. He was very effective for us last year and is off to a good start this year as well.

 

K/9 underrates guys who never walk anyone and K% is more useful. It's projected around 20%, which will probably be about average, and actually quite good for a pitcher with excellent control and high groundball tendencies.

[Spanky99]

I find it interesting that everyone wants more velocity and then wants to demote Pop, the second hardest thrower on the team. He was very effective for us last year and is off to a good start this year as well.

 

K/9 underrates guys who never walk anyone and K% is more useful. It's projected around 20%, which will probably be about average, and actually quite good for a pitcher with excellent control and high groundball tendencies.

 

Because he has options, do you want to see Pop in over Pearson if he continues to shove?

[Grant77]

Because he has options, do you want to see Pop in over Pearson if he continues to shove?

 

Yes. I think Pearson has work to do on his command and that Pop is a really good and useful reliever.

[John_Havok]

Because he has options, do you want to see Pop in over Pearson if he continues to shove?

 

I'd be more inclined to punt Richards and keep both Pop and Pearson. I like Pop in the pen, just not as a high leverage guy yet.

[Spanky99]

I'd be more inclined to punt Richards and keep both Pop and Pearson. I like Pop in the pen, just not as a high leverage guy yet.

 

I don't see that happening, bro. It's a long season, and they like him.

[John_Havok]

I don't see that happening, bro. It's a long season, and they like him.

 

Yeah i know, and if he straightens out his command, he can absolutly be a swing and miss guy with that filthy change

[Deadpool]

I find it interesting that everyone wants more velocity and then wants to demote Pop, the second hardest thrower on the team. He was very effective for us last year and is off to a good start this year as well.

 

K/9 underrates guys who never walk anyone and K% is more useful. It's projected around 20%, which will probably be about average, and actually quite good for a pitcher with excellent control and high groundball tendencies.

 

I'm not suggesting demoting him due to performance, it would be for him to work on missing bats, and work on just locking things down for 1 inning. With his stuff, he SHOULD be missing more bats than he is.

[Masterbather]

I think we can all agree all plans go to s*** if our rotation doesn't give us enough innings. That's a concern right now.

[Grant77]

I'm not suggesting demoting him due to performance, it would be for him to work on missing bats, and work on just locking things down for 1 inning. With his stuff, he SHOULD be missing more bats than he is.

 

That kind of work should have been done in the offseason and maybe it was. If he's being sent to AAA to rework his pitches at this point then something went seriously wrong.

 

He's tightened up the slider a bit and is throwing it a lot more often in his 5 innings, with good results and way more whiffs. He's struck put 25% of batters too, for what it's worth.

 

I want to see what we have in Pop, I think he might be a big part of this team.

[L54]

I think we can all agree all plans go to s*** if our rotation doesn't give us enough innings. That's a concern right now.

 

Yes it is. Won’t matter who is in the pen it’s gonna look like s*** if they’re throwing 4 innings a night

[Laika]

Well if Pop and Swanson want to pitch like that consistently then the pen will be more than fine...

[BigCecil]

Well if Pop and Swanson want to pitch like that consistently then the pen will be more than fine...

 

Yep. Pop has upside. 2 seamer with V and looks like his off speed stuff is better this season. They need Swanson to be '22 for sure.

 

The 64% use of the SL by Romano is puzzling. But it works mostly for him/us. His FB command he doesn't seem to trust as much right now.

[BigCecil]

Phillies had some high strikeout arms in their pen last season.

 

Alvarado was virtually unhittable in the stretch and most of the playoffs last year. 99-102 with that SL and BBing few. Seranthony stepped up. Part of any pen success is always getting hot at the right time too.

[jaysblue]

Alvarado was virtually unhittable in the stretch and most of the playoffs last year. 99-102 with that SL and BBing few. Seranthony stepped up. Part of any pen success is always getting hot at the right time too.

 

Yup that's with every pen, though historically both of them were always high strikeout guys. Alvarado with the Rays and Seranthony was always as well. They definitely got hot at the right time and that's with most BP arms since they are so volatile.

 

Hope the Jays can get lucky with one or two arms down in the BP this season. Pop is looking really good so far and hopefully Pearson or Green can make an impact later on.

[Brownie19]

Yep. Pop has upside. 2 seamer with V and looks like his off speed stuff is better this season. They need Swanson to be '22 for sure.

 

The 64% use of the SL by Romano is puzzling. But it works mostly for him/us. His FB command he doesn't seem to trust as much right now.

 

I think the whiff % on his SL is like 60% right now. It seems to have more depth than previous years. It's a f***ing elite pitch. The fastball has velo, but I agree the command isn't there yet. You almost know for certain right now that if Romano gets down in the count, he's throwing the SL.

[TheHurl]

Finding out Pop grew up a Yankees fan is a little concerning for his future. I thought we picked our Maple Boners because they wanted to be Blue Jays their entire lives.

[Orgfiller]

I honestly think Romano’s slider is becoming a Mariano esque pitch. You know the odds of him dropping one are very high, but the depth it has at the velocity he throws it at makes in a nearly impossible pitch to hit, let alone square up. The fact that he also averages 97 on a fastball with good shape is what makes him so good in general. For him, the fastball plays off the slider, not the other way around. He’s been throwing it over half the time since last season and the results keep showing.

 

I understand the frustration when he’s not commanding it so he’s still spamming it and missing, but it’s not like when Romano struggles it’s because the slider is getting hit around. If he’s not commanding the slider odds are he’s also not commanding his fastball, which to begin with he has a more difficult time putting it in the zone where he wants it.

[Orgfiller]

Romano’s statcast page is all in the hot red except for his walk rate. His stuff has been excellent and he simply is not allowing hard contact.

[Brownie19]

I honestly think Romano’s slider is becoming a Mariano esque pitch. You know the odds of him dropping one are very high, but the depth it has at the velocity he throws it at makes in a nearly impossible pitch to hit, let alone square up. The fact that he also averages 97 on a fastball with good shape is what makes him so good in general. For him, the fastball plays off the slider, not the other way around. He’s been throwing it over half the time since last season and the results keep showing.

 

I understand the frustration when he’s not commanding it so he’s still spamming it and missing, but it’s not like when Romano struggles it’s because the slider is getting hit around. If he’s not commanding the slider odds are he’s also not commanding his fastball, which to begin with he has a more difficult time putting it in the zone where he wants it.

 

Brad Lidge may be a good comp also?

[Grant77]

Pop has a weird statcast page this year. Pretty much everything is exactly the same, but he's just getting way more whiffs on the slider and throwing it more often. Maybe it's a location thing.