Former Blue Jays Thread

[Brownie19]

13 minutes ago, glory said:

Horwitz has a 140 wRC+ after tonight and is apparently pimping home runs now. 

Good for him!  Always liked his approach at the plate.  

[jmomcc]

Him and Lopez are the two that got away but also understandable. 

We have so many lefties right now, we will probably lose someone who does well elsewhere as well. 

[hanton]

1 hour ago, glory said:

Horwitz has a 140 wRC+ after tonight and is apparently pimping home runs now. 

lol he's watching too much Adolis 

[Omar]

 

[Brownie19]

8 hours ago, Omar said:

 

It's interesting to see how a player like JD views all of this.

He said he told Ross he wanted to retire a Blue Jay after the 2017 season and seems upset that Ross suggested a 3 year extension (claiming he was going to play a lot longer than that).  The Jays clearly needed to rebuild, so logically, signing JD to some long extension entering his age 32 season didn't make a ton of sense - a 3 year extension may have helped his trade value.  Of interest, JD actually played 5 more years, with the last 2 being pretty poor, so the 3 year extension would have been a good call.

JD seems upset that Ross offered to show him how the Jays project him moving forward.  He declined (sounding like he's offended by that suggestion) and cites all his MVP votes and what he'd done in the past - seemingly suggesting that he should be paid based on what he's done, not what he's going to do moving forward.  I wonder if a lot of players feel that way?  Maybe they do when they feel they've been underpaid (based on their performance) during their previous contract?  But no good GM does this - nor should they.  

He seemed upset that Rogers didn't care if they resigned JD.  Again, 2018 Jays were rebuilding and lowering payroll for obvious reasons. I wonder how many players care whether the Owner (who typically know nothing about baseball) "wants them there" or not.

He goes on to claim he told Ross "I just want you to be straight up with me", which I suspect is exactly what he would have done when reviewing the projections - but JD refuses to see them.  Then he's so butt hurt about all of this, he just tells Ross he won't talk contracts anymore, then claims he thinks Ross approach it like this on purpose because he didn't want him to come back?

Based on this video, it seems JD doesn't really understand how the business of baseball works (even if he says he does in the video).  This doesn't really surprise me - I think a lot of baseball players and fans are clueless.  That said, I suspect it's difficult for a star player to ignore the "feelings" - even if it's just business.  I get the impression that's part of it.  You dominate and give the teams some amazing memories and you never want that to end - but sometimes it has to.  I can't say I blame him for that.

Thanks for posting the video.

[glory]

A GM saying "I'm offering you 3 years and let me show you why our projections think you'll stink in Year 4 and 5" would probably rub any player the wrong way. Doesn't mean Ross was wrong (he was right, in hindsight), but I don't think it was unreasonable for JD to tell Ross to kick rocks at that point. I think the bigger issue is Ross knowing JD was ready to leave once he realized the team didn't want to extend him, and the Jays stubbornly holding on to him anyway. That whole 2017-19 period was botched in so many ways. It's actually remarkable the team was good by 2021. Atkins definitely improved on the job, but man was it brutal in 2017-19 just waiting for Vlad and Bo to hopefully save the day. 

[Brownie19]

2 hours ago, glory said:

A GM saying "I'm offering you 3 years and let me show you why our projections think you'll stink in Year 4 and 5" would probably rub any player the wrong way. Doesn't mean Ross was wrong (he was right, in hindsight), but I don't think it was unreasonable for JD to tell Ross to kick rocks at that point. I think the bigger issue is Ross knowing JD was ready to leave once he realized the team didn't want to extend him, and the Jays stubbornly holding on to him anyway. That whole 2017-19 period was botched in so many ways. It's actually remarkable the team was good by 2021. Atkins definitely improved on the job, but man was it brutal in 2017-19 just waiting for Vlad and Bo to hopefully save the day. 

We really don't know how it was presented and such, but I don't think it's unreasonable for a GM to say "let's sit down together and look at what we project for you".  Baseball has been run by projection systems for quite awhile now.  Suggesting that they should be looking at his MVP votes in previous seasons illustrates how clueless players can be.

I'd read that as Atkins saying "this is what the numbers are showing me for what I can offer you.  Let's see if we're in the same ballpark or not so we don't waste each others time". 

I guess it's fair for JD to get butt hurt that Atkins (correctly) didn't want to extend him for 8 years, but wouldn't JD prefer that Atkins was upfront and told him that instead of dragging it out?

Unless I'm missing something, I don't get how Atkins botched that situation so much.  They had this convo, they learned that an extension wasn't going to happen and he traded him that season.  The issue was that JD got hurt, which killed his value.  It's not like Atkins would have known that was going to happen.

Should he have signed JD to an extension the previous year when his value was sky high?  That would have been a disaster - especially when the writing was on the wall that the Jays wouldn't be competing much beyond 2016.

[Olerud363.354]

39 minutes ago, Brownie19 said:

Should he have signed JD to an extension the previous year when his value was sky high?  That would have been a disaster - especially when the writing was on the wall that the Jays wouldn't be competing much beyond 2016.

 

In retrospect 2019 was the only year they didn't try to, or actually contend.  

He would have been useful in 2020 and 2021 with the rosters they had, but more than likely would have prevented them from signing Semien.   If he replaced Biggio in 2021 Jays would make the playoffs, but unlikely they have Donaldson and Semien on the 2021 team with no spot for Biggio. 

[glory]

12 hours ago, Brownie19 said:

We really don't know how it was presented and such, but I don't think it's unreasonable for a GM to say "let's sit down together and look at what we project for you".  Baseball has been run by projection systems for quite awhile now.  Suggesting that they should be looking at his MVP votes in previous seasons illustrates how clueless players can be.

I'd read that as Atkins saying "this is what the numbers are showing me for what I can offer you.  Let's see if we're in the same ballpark or not so we don't waste each others time". 

I guess it's fair for JD to get butt hurt that Atkins (correctly) didn't want to extend him for 8 years, but wouldn't JD prefer that Atkins was upfront and told him that instead of dragging it out?

Unless I'm missing something, I don't get how Atkins botched that situation so much.  They had this convo, they learned that an extension wasn't going to happen and he traded him that season.  The issue was that JD got hurt, which killed his value.  It's not like Atkins would have known that was going to happen.

Should he have signed JD to an extension the previous year when his value was sky high?  That would have been a disaster - especially when the writing was on the wall that the Jays wouldn't be competing much beyond 2016.

Donaldson isn’t going to want to be paid based on future projections when he was either an MVP candidate or the actual MVP over the previous 5 years. I’m not saying that’s right or wrong, just that it was a reasonable emotion for him to feel. I think most of us would have felt that way in his position. With that said, Atkins (realizing the team wasn’t a contender) not wanting to extend an older player that he didn’t think would be good by the last couple of years of the contract was also reasonable. The issue I had is that if Donaldson made it clear that he was done with the org once the extension talks halted, and the Jays clearly had no intention of qualifying him after the season, then holding on to him for 2018 was a directionless decision. 

[Brownie19]

54 minutes ago, glory said:

Donaldson isn’t going to want to be paid based on future projections when he was either an MVP candidate or the actual MVP over the previous 5 years. I’m not saying that’s right or wrong, just that it was a reasonable emotion for him to feel. I think most of us would have felt that way in his position. With that said, Atkins (realizing the team wasn’t a contender) not wanting to extend an older player that he didn’t think would be good by the last couple of years of the contract was also reasonable. The issue I had is that if Donaldson made it clear that he was done with the org once the extension talks halted, and the Jays clearly had no intention of qualifying him after the season, then holding on to him for 2018 was a directionless decision. 

For all we know, the did shop him around in the 2017 offseason, after realizing an extension wasn't happening and they didn't like what they were offered, so they took the risk of trading him in-season, only for him to get hurt and barely play.  A healthy JD might have commanded a fortune at the deadline in competitive market.  Can't fault the org for not knowing he'd get hurt.  Or maybe Ownership pushed them to remain "competitive" in 2018 and thus keeping JD to the deadline aligned with the Owners requests.

Lots of potential reasons for it and we don't really have enough info to create that judgement IMO.

I do agree that it's fine for JD to feel like he should be paid for what he did in the past, but it really does show his ignorance as to how the business of baseball is run (which I said originally).  IMO, he ought to have taken the position that while he understands his future contract will be based on his projections, he would like there to be some sort of acknowledgement for the strength and results he brought to the organization in previous years.  I suspect organizations would be receptive to that - adding an extra year or 2, or increasing the AAV by 5-10% to find mutual ground.  But when the player shuts down any conversation on what the projections for him look like - it's becomes a non-starter, and frankly, it makes him look like a dumb jock (which he probably is).

[hanton]

Otto Lopez

Gabriel Moreno

but especially Lopez, he went from a wRC+ of 86 last season to 141 this season and he's 3rd in the majors with an fWAR of 4.3

[Brownie19]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Dagf_nRiSI5/?igsh=NGFqODY4dDY1eDht

That is awesome. Must listen.  JD and Gibby tell the Tom Ford cologne story.  Unreal.

[Brownie19]

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1,660 likes, 31 comments - getitdoneleague on July 4, 2026: "Who else thinks Munenori Kawasaki needs to...

That's awesome. Legend of Kawa

[glory]

19 hours ago, hanton said:

Otto Lopez

Gabriel Moreno

but especially Lopez, he went from a wRC+ of 86 last season to 141 this season and he's 3rd in the majors with an fWAR of 4.3

Lopez has the 3rd highest WAR in MLB behind PCA and Witt. Going from a 69 wRC+ at age 24 in AAA to one of the best players in baseball 3 years later is crazy.