General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2023)

[max silver]

Lol @ wouldnt take Trout for free. Got f***ers talking about paying 200M for Bellinger but wouldn't want Trout for free lol.

 

I don't think anyone would refute that Trout is still a great player when he's on the field, but unfortunately that's becoming less and less common. Trout has only averaged 79 games the last three seasons. In the last 3 seasons Trout has missed time due to soft tissue injuries to his calf, groin and back and on top of that he has a chronic back condition. Although his expected stats were solid he produced the worst season of his career since he was a rookie, and he's going to be paid $35.5 million for another 7 seasons. Acquiring him for free would essentially be like handing him a $248 million contract in free agency. Is this something you would actually want to do?

[Jays24]

J.D. would be an amazing get at DH given what's available. Get Bellinger if the contracts reasonable or get Teo otherwise. Then bring back Chapman since there really isn't much of an alternative and we're good to go.

 

Springer

Bo

Bellinger

Vlad

Martinez

Kirk/Jansen

Varsho

Chapman

Biggio/Schneider

[Jays24]

I don't think anyone would refute that Trout is still a great player when he's on the field, but unfortunately that's becoming less and less common. Trout has only averaged 79 games the last three seasons. In the last 3 seasons Trout has missed time due to soft tissue injuries to his calf, groin and back and on top of that he has a chronic back condition. Although his expected stats were solid he produced the worst season of his career since he was a rookie, and he's going to be paid $35.5 million for another 7 seasons. Acquiring him for free would essentially be like handing him a $248 million contract in free agency. Is this something you would actually want to do?

 

I get the injury concerns and we'd have to talk to him about moving to a corner OF spot with some DH reps to uphold the body but the upside is just too stupidly good to not take the chance. You invested a ton into your high performance department so let's see what the big investment was for.

 

Did people think Ohtani was going to look unbreakable during the same years while getting paid much more? Ohtani has already had major injury concerns in his career too but the whole world was begging for him.

 

Also, realistically teams would eat some of that contract because they'd have to get a return for one of the best players of all time. You cant sell your franchise on this by getting nothing for him. It's a move I would 100% look into if it's possible.

[gruber92]

Reports of jays being interested in JDM. He’d be a great addition.

 

What a fantastic impact bat, he'd instantly transform the line up. Considering offence is the main priority, hand him a slight overpay and get it done.

[wilko]

I don't think anyone would refute that Trout is still a great player when he's on the field, but unfortunately that's becoming less and less common. Trout has only averaged 79 games the last three seasons. In the last 3 seasons Trout has missed time due to soft tissue injuries to his calf, groin and back and on top of that he has a chronic back condition. Although his expected stats were solid he produced the worst season of his career since he was a rookie, and he's going to be paid $35.5 million for another 7 seasons. Acquiring him for free would essentially be like handing him a $248 million contract in free agency. Is this something you would actually want to do?

 

[max silver]

I get the injury concerns and we'd have to talk to him about moving to a corner OF spot with some DH reps to uphold the body but the upside is just too stupidly good to not take the chance. You invested a ton into your high performance department so let's see what the big investment was for.

 

Did people think Ohtani was going to look unbreakable during the same years while getting paid much more? Ohtani has already had major injury concerns in his career too but the whole world was begging for him.

 

Also, realistically teams would eat some of that contract because they'd have to get a return for one of the best players of all time. You cant sell your franchise on this by getting nothing for him. It's a move I would 100% look into if it's possible.

 

I can fully agree if the Angels were willing to eat salary this is a move I would at least consider. Having said that I have flashbacks of the eventual Tulo breakdown where he was constantly injured and ineffective to the point that the team paid him to go away. It feels like this very well may be the eventual outcome with Trout as well where the injuries simply force him to hang up his cleats for good.

[Eat My Shatkins]

The contracts are no doubt risky, but signing Bellinger, Chapman and JD Martinez is probably the absolute best the Jays could do as far as FA's go. Probably the most formidable line up they could put together at the moment without doing it via trades.

 

LF - Springer

SS - Bichette

1B - Guerrero

RF - Bellinger

DH - Martinez

3B - Chapman

C - Kirk / Jansen

2B - Biggio/ Schneider / Espinal

CF - Varsho

 

One more for the bench out of Lukes, Clement, Horwitz, etc

 

Probably not much money left after that to sign anything more than maybe some depth pitching, but the staff is pretty solid on paper as is.

[Jays24]

I can fully agree if the Angels were willing to eat salary this is a move I would at least consider. Having said that I have flashbacks of the eventual Tulo breakdown where he was constantly injured and ineffective to the point that the team paid him to go away. It feels like this very well may be the eventual outcome with Trout as well where the injuries simply force him to hang up his cleats for good.

 

Ya it's a tough line of looking at a guy for what he's done in the past and thinking how much of it he can do in the future. Some guys age well while some don't and typically it's best just to stay away from it all like the Rays do but it's not easy to hit on practically every young guy like they do lol.

[G-Snarls]

Trout isn't being traded by the Angels. But yeah I'd take him and be quite happy about it.

 

They 100% SHOULD trade him

 

I'm sure he's frustrated enough to waive his nontrade clause / 10-5 rights too

[G-Snarls]

What a fantastic impact bat, he'd instantly transform the line up. Considering offence is the main priority, hand him a slight overpay and get it done.

 

Agreed

 

Best target right now

[Orgfiller]

I feel like people expecting JDM to be a significant upgrade on Belt are in for a rude awakening. His whiff and K rates shot up pretty significantly and he's already a guy who didn't walk that often. Granted, he's still got some pretty exciting, game changing power, when he connects the damage is significant, but this might prove harder to do as a 36 year old turning 37 midway through next season. I'd still take him but I would be thrilled if he gave us a 125+ wRC+ good for 2 WAR, trading some OBP for SLG. He provides no defensive value whatsoever unlike Belt who could at least give Vlad a day off at 1B, and is a significantly worse baserunner.

[Jays24]

Would people want Solar or J.D.?

[max silver]

I feel like people expecting JDM to be a significant upgrade on Belt are in for a rude awakening. His whiff and K rates shot up pretty significantly and he's already a guy who didn't walk that often. Granted, he's still got some pretty exciting, game changing power, when he connects the damage is significant, but this might prove harder to do as a 36 year old turning 37 midway through next season. I'd still take him but I would be thrilled if he gave us a 125+ wRC+ good for 2 WAR, trading some OBP for SLG. He provides no defensive value whatsoever unlike Belt who could at least give Vlad a day off at 1B, and is a significantly worse baserunner.

 

It seems pretty likely that Martinez sold out for power over contact as he posted the highest exit velocity and hard hit rates of his entire career. It's hard to argue that a .301 ISO doesn't make the increased k rate absolutely worthwhile.

[burlingtonbandit]

I get the injury concerns and we'd have to talk to him about moving to a corner OF spot with some DH reps to uphold the body but the upside is just too stupidly good to not take the chance. You invested a ton into your high performance department so let's see what the big investment was for.

 

Did people think Ohtani was going to look unbreakable during the same years while getting paid much more? Ohtani has already had major injury concerns in his career too but the whole world was begging for him.

 

Also, realistically teams would eat some of that contract because they'd have to get a return for one of the best players of all time. You cant sell your franchise on this by getting nothing for him. It's a move I would 100% look into if it's possible.

 

I don't think Trout would even want to come here with the turf. (doesn't he have no trade clause). That said Trout is a player that would bring in marketing $ and reignite the fan base (not the same as Ohtani). He's one of the best players of all time and even if you are overpaying a bit I think you would have to do it.

 

Even with the injury concerns I don't think anyone would be surprised if he has a 7 Win season this year.

[Marew]

What’s his name said nobody would want to watch trout play. Would rather have him than ohtani honestly.

[Jimcanuck]

What’s his name said nobody would want to watch trout play. Would rather have him than ohtani honestly.

 

That's misrepresentation of what was posted. Read it again.

[Omar]

I get that Manoah would have his own unique sense of style with the shorts suit but why is he wearing a double breasted tux in 2023?

[Marew]

That's misrepresentation of what was posted. Read it again.

 

Not you, just from page 857 mid to end of page

[Brownie19]

I get that Manoah would have his own unique sense of style with the shorts suit but why is he wearing a double breasted tux in 2023?

 

Everything looks ridiculous. Poor guy is going to look back at some point and think "WTF was I doing?"

[Brownie19]

I don't think Trout would even want to come here with the turf. (doesn't he have no trade clause). That said Trout is a player that would bring in marketing $ and reignite the fan base (not the same as Ohtani). He's one of the best players of all time and even if you are overpaying a bit I think you would have to do it.

 

Even with the injury concerns I don't think anyone would be surprised if he has a 7 Win season this year.

 

I don't think our "turf" a deterrent anymore. It's not 1995.

[Spanky99]

Man, Mike Trout cannot be worth much in a trade. He's gotta be worth way more to the Angels than they'd ever get in a return unless they ate a f***ton of that contract.

 

Hard to believe he's already 32 years old. $35.5 million AAV and he's averaged 3.7 fWAR the last three seasons...well basically three "half seasons" because he is always injured now.

 

He's -66.7M in surplus value, he's an Angel for life. I for one hope he comes back healthy, it's good for baseball and he's an amazing ballplayer when on the field.

[Eat My Shatkins]

He's -66.7M in surplus value, he's an Angel for life. I for one hope he comes back healthy, it's good for baseball and he's an amazing ballplayer when on the field.

 

Yeah I went and looked at that today. They'd literally have to give him away and eat a huge chunk of that contract, which they'll never do, so yeah....an Angel for life.

[Orgfiller]

It seems pretty likely that Martinez sold out for power over contact as he posted the highest exit velocity and hard hit rates of his entire career. It's hard to argue that a .301 ISO doesn't make the increased k rate absolutely worthwhile.

 

A .301 ISO is great obviously. The question is if he can continue selling out for power as he gets older and his bat speed declines even further. Also he was literally as good a hitter as Belt was last season, which was my point. If he can be exactly as good as last season that’d be great, would take it in a heartbeat.

[Spanky99]

I’d totally wear that jacket and shorts…it’s the shoes that really f*** up that look.

 

Happy Birthday, buddy! Cheers!

[DonJays]

What’s his name said nobody would want to watch trout play. Would rather have him than ohtani honestly.

 

You should delete your account if you would prefer trout to Ohtani

[Jimcanuck]

The poor Angels.

 

Trout signed that megadeal prior to the 2019 season. He played close to a full season in 2019, has averaged half a season of games since (COVID a minor part of this).

 

Anthony Rendon signs for 7 years @ $35M per. Has barely played since.

 

Doesn't help that they promoted Adell too quickly and get nothing but a pick after the 2nd round for Ohtani.

[Spanky99]

He would be my #1 priority right now

 

We were on that train since the Jays were eliminated, bro. Haha!

[Key22]

Hell yeah. He's an upgrade on Belt and you don't have to hide him from lefties. Instant oomph to the lineup at a comparatively reasonable cost and we have DH open. Looks like $40M over 2 years is the consensus take?

 

 

So the Jays would need to go 60/3 - maybe 55/3.

 

If others offer 40m/2 maybe we can go 50/3? Sure the last year may suck but you can eat 10m/1 the last year.

 

I think you also need Bellinger to strengthen this lineup.

 

I like Jim Bowden's take - he would rather spread the money around overpaying one DH. He suggests the Jays target Hader for an elite back end, also sign Bellinger, and Hoskins and bring back Chapman. Put the pedal to the metal.

 

At 9 minutes on "All I have seen is Shapiro spend money, that's all I've seen them do."

He predicts $181m/7 but thinks this is too high - colleagues say it will be over $200m.

 

His injury and he got Covid - say he is fully healthy and has sustainable mechanical adjustments.

 

But trades don't work as Jays have a bottom 5 farm system. No one will give anything good for Manoah as he has almost no trade value - reclamation projects. Competing with Orioles, Reds and Dodgers farm systems. The Jays can't stack up to those clubs in trades

 

[Jimcanuck]

Prefer Turner over JDM. Similar bat, Turner can still play in the field. Played games at 1B, 2B, and 3B in 2023.

 

The real kicker is JDM had a 31% K rate in 2023. Turner's was 18.6%. Turner much less likely to fall off the cliff.

[Spanky99]

So the Jays would need to go 60/3 - maybe 55/3.

 

If others offer 40m/2 maybe we can go 50/3? Sure the last year may suck but you can eat 10m/1 the last year.

 

I think you also need Bellinger to strengthen this lineup.

 

I like Jim Bowden's take - he would rather spread the money around overpaying one DH. He suggests the Jays target Hader for an elite back end, also sign Bellinger, and Hoskins and bring back Chapman. Put the pedal to the metal.

 

At 9 minutes on "All I have seen is Shapiro spend money, that's all I've seen them do."

He predicts $181m/7 but thinks this is too high - colleagues say it will be over $200m.

 

His injury and he got Covid - say he is fully healthy and has sustainable mechanical adjustments.

 

But trades don't work as Jays have a bottom 5 farm system. No one will give anything good for Manoah as he has almost no trade value - reclamation projects. Competing with Orioles, Reds and Dodgers farm systems. The Jays can't stack up to those clubs in trades