General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2023)

[Masterbather]

Ohtani will be a Dodger and I don't like the price for Soto, he'll probably be a Yankee although I don't know why the Padres would rush that deal and not wait for the Ohtani losers to chime in.

 

I hope we don't make any panic trades. We will have to fill holes internally and with short term signings for next year. It could be a rough ride. I'd focus on starting depth and maintaining a strong pen. We will probably have to lean on pitching again.

[Brownie19]

Ohtani will be a Dodger and I don't like the price for Soto, he'll probably be a Yankee although I don't know why the Padres would rush that deal and not wait for the Ohtani losers to chime in.

 

I hope we don't make any panic trades. We will have to fill holes internally and with short term signings for next year. It could be a rough ride. I'd focus on starting depth and maintaining a strong pen. We will probably have to lean on pitching again.

 

I hate to say it, but I think there's a good possibility we miss out on Ohtani and Soto. I also think there's a decent possibility that long term, we're better off to have missed out on both. Most fans are going to be pissed off though.

[Jimcanuck]

Soto and Judge be like Trout and Ohtani

[glory]

I hate to say it, but I think there's a good possibility we miss out on Ohtani and Soto. I also think there's a decent possibility that long term, we're better off to have missed out on both. Most fans are going to be pissed off though.

 

That’s fair. It would be disappointing while also could be a better long term scenario. With Ohtani I don’t care about the long term risk, it would just be awesome to see him as a Jay. Soto would cost assets and might be a one year rental so that comes with more long term risk/harm.

[connorp]

Ohtani will be a Dodger and I don't like the price for Soto, he'll probably be a Yankee although I don't know why the Padres would rush that deal and not wait for the Ohtani losers to chime in.

 

I hope we don't make any panic trades. We will have to fill holes internally and with short term signings for next year. It could be a rough ride. I'd focus on starting depth and maintaining a strong pen. We will probably have to lean on pitching again.

 

I’d assume they would know what they would be looking at with each team if they didn’t get Ohtani. Those calls have probably been going on for months. I’m sure they would wait if it made sense. If they make a move, there wasn’t something to wait for in their eyes

[Laika]

I hate to say it, but I think there's a good possibility we miss out on Ohtani and Soto. I also think there's a decent possibility that long term, we're better off to have missed out on both. Most fans are going to be pissed off though.

 

Until last week nobody thought Toronto even had a puncher's chance at Ohtani

And a Soto trade was almost a long shot given the pure number of teams who would bid

[Jimcanuck]

Plenty of other targets to pivot to

 

Jordan Montgomery and Bellinger together would be less than the cost of Ohtani and not a lot more than Soto

[connorp]

Plenty of other targets to pivot to

 

Jordan Montgomery and Bellinger together would be less than the cost of Ohtani and not a lot more than Soto

 

Nobody smart wants to ride on the CB train, Jim. The 1 year deal was the target.

[Jimcanuck]

Nobody smart wants to ride on the CB train, Jim. The 1 year deal was the target.

 

Much of the blue on his statcast early in 2023 changed to red by the end. He's put the injuries behind him.

[connorp]

Much of the blue on his statcast early in 2023 changed to red by the end. He's put the injuries behind him.

 

What did Kris Bryant’s look like his FA year? I don’t know, but it’s just the closest situational comp that comes to mind.

[BigCecil]

Soto is going to the Yanks and Ohtani will to the LAD.

 

The clocks run out, times up, over, blaow. Snap back to reality, ope there goes gravity.

[max silver]

What did Kris Bryant’s look like his FA year? I don’t know, but it’s just the closest situational comp that comes to mind.

 

Bryant was approximately 15 points higher by xWOBA vs Bellinger in his free agent season.

[Ehjays]

[burlingtonbandit]

 

That's actually a pretty funny joke by Boras that I bet a lot of people didn't get.

[Jays24]

At least we can see the sense of urgency from Atkins. Most believe his ass should have already been fired so let's see what he does with an extra year on the job.

[G-Snarls]

I just don't know what makes our offense tangibly better if we don't get Soto or Ohtani

[Eat My Shatkins]

At least we can see the sense of urgency from Atkins. Most believe his ass should have already been fired so let's see what he does with an extra year on the job.

 

"Most" believe?

 

Haha that's a f***ing stretch if I ever saw one. I'd say most are just fine with what he's done to date.

 

Playoff success is fleeting and has a lot to do with luck. The guy has built a consistent 90~ win team

[Jays24]

"Most" believe?

 

Haha that's a f***ing stretch if I ever saw one. I'd say most are just fine with what he's done to date.

 

Playoff success is fleeting and has a lot to do with luck. The guy has built a consistent 90~ win team

 

If you took a poll, majority would have wanted him ass fired the day after his after season presser. Lol @ saying 0 playoff wins in an expanded playoff era is all luck.

 

He hasn't been complete dog s*** but he also hasn't been great. With the amount of resources at his disposal, the bar is a lot higher than what he's produced so far.

[Brownie19]

If you took a poll, majority would have wanted him ass fired the day after his after season presser. Lol @ saying 0 playoff wins in an expanded playoff era is all luck.

 

He hasn't been complete dog s*** but he also hasn't been great. With the amount of resources at his disposal, the bar is a lot higher than what he's produced so far.

 

If by "most" you're talking about people in the general public, then yes, that's probably true. But it's also true that the vast majority of the public (or, let's refer to them as casual fans) are ignorant and stupid. Why on earth would you poll the public or give a f*** what they think? (and yes - that's essentially what democracy is, but that's another discussion altogether). If you polled those within a knowledgeable baseball circle, I suspect most would suggest Atkins has done a solid/good job to date.

 

We've circled around the value of playoff wins far too often. I don't think you grasp the subject very well, so let's leave that one alone. Just know that it's not as cut and dry as you believe.

[jaysblue]

"Most" believe?

 

Haha that's a f***ing stretch if I ever saw one. I'd say most are just fine with what he's done to date.

 

Playoff success is fleeting and has a lot to do with luck. The guy has built a consistent 90~ win team

 

Lmao!

[Eat My Shatkins]

If you took a poll, majority would have wanted him ass fired the day after his after season presser. Lol @ saying 0 playoff wins in an expanded playoff era is all luck.

 

He hasn't been complete dog s*** but he also hasn't been great. With the amount of resources at his disposal, the bar is a lot higher than what he's produced so far.

 

Fix your f***ing reading comprehension.

 

I said "has a lot to do with luck" not "it's ALL luck"

 

Big difference. Learn to read and comprehend what you're reading before going off all half cocked.

[jaysblue]

The shills on this board will always think Atkins is the best no matter what.

 

In reality, he's been solid but definitely can improve in some areas. He isn't one of the best GM's in baseball. He's done a solid job here, but it hasn't been enough and we're already going into 2024 with zero Postseason wins with this group and an aging team that beyond 2025 looks very questionable without a pipeline of young elite players ready to step in. Sure an 88-90 win team is nice, but geez it's the expanded era so definitely easier to make the Postseason every year. The issue with Atkins is he hasn't been able to take this team to the next level.

[Brownie19]

Fix your f***ing reading comprehension.

 

I said "has a lot to do with luck" not "it's ALL luck"

 

Big difference. Learn to read and comprehend what you're reading before going off all half cocked.

 

I'm pretty sure he's already made up his mind...

[Brownie19]

The shills on this board will always think Atkins is the best no matter what.

 

In reality, he's been solid but definitely can improve in some areas. He isn't one of the best GM's in baseball. He's done a solid job here, but it hasn't been enough and we're already going into 2024 with zero Postseason wins with this group and an aging team that beyond 2025 looks very questionable without a pipeline of young elite players ready to step in. Sure an 88-90 win team is nice, but geez it's the expanded era so definitely easier to make the Postseason every year. The issue with Atkins is he hasn't been able to take this team to the next level.

 

Enough with the broken record s*** man.

[DigitalRock]

Soto looks like he is a yankee. The fan base will be toxic if they don’t get either ohtani or Soto lol

[Eat My Shatkins]

The shills on this board will always think Atkins is the best no matter what.

 

In reality, he's been solid but definitely can improve in some areas. He isn't one of the best GM's in baseball. He's done a solid job here, but it hasn't been enough and we're already going into 2024 with zero Postseason wins with this group and an aging team that beyond 2025 looks very questionable without a pipeline of young elite players ready to step in. Sure an 88-90 win team is nice, but geez it's the expanded era so definitely easier to make the Postseason every year. The issue with Atkins is he hasn't been able to take this team to the next level.

 

Who has said Atkins is "the best" for f*** sakes? lol

 

You Atkins whiners like to build strawmen that's for sure.

[Jays24]

The shills on this board will always think Atkins is the best no matter what.

 

In reality, he's been solid but definitely can improve in some areas. He isn't one of the best GM's in baseball. He's done a solid job here, but it hasn't been enough and we're already going into 2024 with zero Postseason wins with this group and an aging team that beyond 2025 looks very questionable without a pipeline of young elite players ready to step in. Sure an 88-90 win team is nice, but geez it's the expanded era so definitely easier to make the Postseason every year. The issue with Atkins is he hasn't been able to take this team to the next level.

 

Exactly my stance. Rogers didn't put all their resources into the team just to be ok. Considering what Shatkins have had to work with, 0 playoff success in an expanded playoff era with a poor farm system while the extensions to your 2 best players haven't even happened yet.

 

They've been here for 8/9 years man... this isn't a reactionary take lol.

[max silver]

Exactly my stance. Rogers didn't put all their resources into the team just to be ok. Considering what Shatkins have had to work with, 0 playoff success in an expanded playoff era with a poor farm system while the extensions to your 2 best players haven't even happened yet.

 

They've been here for 8/9 years man... this isn't a reactionary take lol.

 

Look objectively at what Shapiro has accomplished in the big picture aside from throwing the blinders on and exclusively focusing on only what's happened in the playoffs.

 

During his time as president Shapiro has:

 

-built one of MLB's best farm systems which allowed the team to create an extended window of contention. The system has taken a step back in recent years but it can quickly be built back up if necessary in the future

-convinced Rogers to spend the luxury tax and possibly even higher if they sign Ohtani. The team has signed something like the 3 highest contracts in team history under his tenure

-oversaw the construction of a best in MLB training complex

-oversaw a massive renovation to Rogers Center which will dramatically improve fan experience and player training resources

-shifted the Blue Jays from an ancient behind the times organization to one at the cutting edge of science and analytics (good for the most part, certainly questionable in last years playoffs)

-created an organization which has legitimately attracted the greatest free agent in the history of the sport

 

The team has failed to achieve success in the playoffs up to this point. Having said that I have a hard time seeing how anyone can look at the state of the organization as it currently stands and compare it to where it was before Shapiro arrived and come any conclusion other than Shapiro has been one of the most important hires in the history of the organization.

[max silver]

The shills on this board will always think Atkins is the best no matter what.

 

In reality, he's been solid but definitely can improve in some areas. He isn't one of the best GM's in baseball. He's done a solid job here, but it hasn't been enough and we're already going into 2024 with zero Postseason wins with this group and an aging team that beyond 2025 looks very questionable without a pipeline of young elite players ready to step in. Sure an 88-90 win team is nice, but geez it's the expanded era so definitely easier to make the Postseason every year. The issue with Atkins is he hasn't been able to take this team to the next level.

 

Why is everyone that wasn't screaming for Atkins to be fired the day he was hired insulted and called a shill by you?

[Jays24]

Look objectively at what Shapiro has accomplished in the big picture aside from throwing the blinders on and exclusively focusing on only what's happened in the playoffs.

 

During his time as president Shapiro has:

 

-built one of MLB's best farm systems which allowed the team to create an extended window of contention. The system has taken a step back in recent years but it can quickly be built back up if necessary in the future

-convinced Rogers to spend the luxury tax and possibly even higher if they sign Ohtani. The team has signed something like the 3 highest contracts in team history under his tenure

-oversaw the construction of a best in MLB training complex

-oversaw a massive renovation to Rogers Center which will dramatically improve fan experience and player training resources

-shifted the Blue Jays from an ancient behind the times organization to one at the cutting edge of science and analytics (good for the most part, certainly questionable in last years playoffs)

-created an organization which has legitimately attracted the greatest free agent in the history of the sport

 

The team has failed to achieve success in the playoffs up to this point. Having said that I have a hard time seeing how anyone can look at the state of the organization as it currently stands and compare it to where it was before Shapiro arrived and come any conclusion other than Shapiro has been one of the most important hires in the history of the organization.

 

I'm actually onboard with keeping Shapiro around for most of the reasons you stated but with a closer eye. Ultimately the main measure of success is how you perform in the playoffs and whether the team is in a better position to continue progressing towards a World Series.

 

Not saying he has to win one to be vindicated but the team last year was so painful to watch. I said many times that it was the worst good jays team I've ever seen. The playoff results were pretty much how most expected things to go...