General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2023)

[Terminator]

Like, do you really think Cavan Biggio and Whit Merrifield are going to take you to the promise land?

 

You probably need someone to get hot and hit 10 homers in 20 games to win the world series. Babe is the perfect candidate to do that.

 

LET HIM EAT.

 

100 percent agree. He supposedly sucked at hitting the high fastball but after he hit five of them out of the park in a span of a week they started throwing low and away breaking balls. Let him work it out and see if he can start mashing those too.

[Stangstag]

And truthfully, it's not a bad skill to have. in certain situations with defenses lined up certain ways, and pitchers being able to hit their spots consistently, sure, a two strike approach that looks oppo isnt bad, but it simply cannot be the primary goal of a lineup the majority of the time, which certainly seems to be the approach being preached by the Jays hitting instruction team.

 

A pull heavy approach for nearly every hitter on the team just makes sense. Now that doesnt mean you go up looking to pull literally every pitch, you still have to be willing to take pitches and some strikes to get the one you want to let rip, and no, you wont be successful every time, but when you are successful, you do damage. creating runs wins games, and the most efficient way to create runs is pulling the ball with power.

 

I agree, the oppo approach should be reserved for 2 strike counts. Doesn’t seem to be the case with this team though. Something is off.

 

Getting shutout 2 nights in a row to a non-playoff team in the final week of the season is no bueno.

[Masterbather]

I agree, the oppo approach should be reserved for 2 strike counts. Doesn’t seem to be the case with this team though. Something is off.

 

Getting shutout 2 nights in a row to a non-playoff team in the final week of the season is no bueno.

 

They got shut down by two excellent starters, it doesn't matter how poorly that team has done this season. They also still have this guy named Judge...

 

Nothing that happened over the past two games should be surprising. Now if they look tight in the final game against Weaver and f*** that up? Then we might have a problem brewing.

[Olerud363]

Boring yes. Mediocre no.

 

It depends what the definition of mediocre. Is a high 80s win team mediocre?

[Olerud363]

Brandon Belt in the media asking for fan noise like "Winfield Wants Noise" in 1992, which exploded.

 

https://www.yardbarker.com/mlb/articles/amp/brandon_belt_says_we_need_the_fans_to_be_loud_but_fans_arent_getting_excited_for_run_prevention/s1_13549_39313370

 

Trouble is 3 hits isn't going to get the fans making much noise. No player had to say this in 15/16 down the stretch or the playoffs. If anything it was "calm down and stop throwing beer cans".

 

Been going to games forever and seen some mediocre teams. This team is one of the most boring Jays teams to watch overall that I've seen unfortunately. Expectations and lack of consistent offence. Just my view.

 

f*** Belt. It's not the fans, it is that this team has been terrible in big series at home. This is the third year in a row they played the Yankees the mid-week second last home series. Lost all 3 series.

 

And don't blame King and Cole. The 2021 Yankees, not a super-great team hammered the Cy Young award winner, Robbie Ray.

 

What is the most significant game this iteration of the team has won at Roger Center? What big moment did they provide the fans? They've essentially wilted in every big series at Rogers center late in the season.

 

Even last year they got beat by the Yankees at home and clinched their wild card because Orioles weren't quite ready and lost the next day.

 

It's like the 1985-1990 team that always lost in the big moments and had to be reconfigured before taking the next step.

[Olerud363]

I agree, the oppo approach should be reserved for 2 strike counts. DoesnÂ’t seem to be the case with this team though. Something is off.

 

Getting shutout 2 nights in a row to a non-playoff team in the final week of the season is no bueno.

 

How is saying "something is off" any different then any of the stuff I've been saying, except more concise with less ranting?

 

By definition if "something is off" each game probability is going to be off depending what that something is. If it is an inability to perform against tough pitching under pressure (if such a thing exists) the individual probabilities for each game will be off a bit, and the combined probability will be off. Add to that correlation between games and the so-called 98% chance of making the playoffs may have been only 90%.

 

And now with a worst case scenario the last 3 days the "official" probability is down to around 90%, but less than that if "something is off".

 

This is like election night 2016. We are at 7:30 and the results from Florida have come in. The Huff post ticker has gone from 98% Hillary to 90%. The Hillary fans are now realizing "something was off". Hillary will still win but let's acknowledge her campaign was flawed.

 

Tonight at 9:45 the results from the midwest start to come in. Then we will start to see some people around here acknowledging reality. Some will go to bed still confident. Others (like the Hillary voters) will stay up to 2:00 in the morning waiting for the results from Michigan (Seattle) to be final. 2016 election all over again, except over multiple nights.

[jaysblue]

Boring yes. Mediocre no.

 

They definitely aren't an elite team this season.

 

They've been a borderline Wildcard team in the AL. Their record at this point and level of play clearly shows that through 158 games this season.

[Olerud363]

A lot that is on JS. Umps know Boone will have a meltdown while the Jays will frown at them

 

This was one case where JS, Shapiro, the scoreboard operator, the Mayor of Toronto, and Justin Trudeau should have united to go ballistic.l

 

Multiple coaches should have been thrown out until Springer was forced to manage. The scoreboard operator should have replayed the pitch over and over constantly the rest of the game, someone should have made an announcement for the fans to boo the umpire. Rogers communications should have released a press statement telling the commissioner to resign because he can't control the umpires. Rogers should have gladly taken fines of several hundred thousand dollars or even a couple of million and clearly said, if umpires pull this s***, we are fighting back.

 

Maybe not that far, but they should have such a fuss that in game it would be dramatic, cause a delay, and maybe get the bats fired up a bit, and post game bring tremendous attention to the poor umpiring and a potentially season and franchise changing call.

 

However the culture of this franchise is so messed up they don't know when to kick up a fuss... like if not then when? Depending what happens over the next 4 days could be one of the worst and most significant calls in franchise history. And JS and the rest are just chill. GET KICKED OUT OF THE f***ING GAME... f***ING BOONE KNOWS HOW IT'S DONE. GETS KICKED OUT REGULARLY AND IS +20 in UMPIRE GIFT RUNS.

This was one case where JS, Shapiro, the scoreboard operator, the Mayor of Toronto, and Justin Trudeau should have united to go ballistic.l

[Olerud363]

Unfortunately, Davis Schneider had to keep a Barry Bonds on roids pace in order to stay in the lineup. Any regression was going to lead right back to the vetrins getting his playing time.

 

This team is seriously f***ed up from the highest levels down.

 

The crazy thing is that Schneider has more at bats in September than August. He got like 50 PAs in his hot August. So of course this created a cycle of pressure. Being Barry Bonds wasn't good enough, so every game it was like he needed 3/4 with 2 homers to play the next day, so of course predictably this led to a slump.

 

If a guy is this hot, with great minor league stats, play him every f***ing day. Schneider should have been in their every god-damn day since August 4th.

 

Shapiro needs to go. Needs to resign Sunday at 6:00 pm, or be fired as the Mariner game ends badly for us, on the big screen (2/3 years season ends watching out of town scoreboard), a representative from Rogers needs to come on after Seattle clinches, and announce Shapiro is fired, and apologize to Davis Schneider and AA for the fiasco this franchise has become.

[BigCecil]

It depends what the definition of mediocre. Is a high 80s win team mediocre?

 

No. I don't think so anymore with 3 wildcard spots. Pre wildcard yep. Goalposts have moved.

[glory]

Brandon Belt in the media asking for fan noise like "Winfield Wants Noise" in 1992, which exploded.

 

https://www.yardbarker.com/mlb/articles/amp/brandon_belt_says_we_need_the_fans_to_be_loud_but_fans_arent_getting_excited_for_run_prevention/s1_13549_39313370

 

Trouble is 3 hits isn't going to get the fans making much noise. No player had to say this in 15/16 down the stretch or the playoffs. If anything it was "calm down and stop throwing beer cans".

 

Been going to games forever and seen some mediocre teams. This team is one of the most boring Jays teams to watch overall that I've seen unfortunately. Expectations and lack of consistent offence. Just my view.

 

Boring pretty much on all counts. Very reminiscent of the JP Ricciardi teams. They were usually fairly vanilla and lacked any real personality, and this team has that same type of feel to me. I mean if it leads to a playoff berth then that’s all that matters but a station to station offense focused on pitching/defense better not be the formula next season.

[Laika]

This team was not intended to be a station-to-station offense. It has just ended up that way because a bunch of guys decided to not hit as many homers as they should. Or they got hurt (Jansen, Bo).

 

The original design was basically... thump up top and then diversity at the bottom.

 

If this offense is/was firing on all cylinders there are some total package hitters (Springer, Bo, Vlad), high average hitters (Kirk and Whit), OBP machines (Belt, Kirk, Biggio), a power/speed guy (Varsho), speed guy (KK), and a pair of bottom of the order big HR hitters (Chapman, Jansen).

 

Of course it just didn't really work out this way. It is really boring. They don't do anything well. They are just "okay" at hitting for AVG and OBP and that's the core of the offense - just being okay at getting singles and getting on base. lmao.

 

Toronto is 11th in AVG, 9th in OBP, 17th in SLG, 22nd in SB, 18th in HR, 28th in BsR (gross), tied 11th in wRC+, 3rd in defensive runs.

 

I do think they need the HR hitters to hit some f***ing homers to do anything in the playoffs.

[BatFlip]

This team is seriously f***ed up from the highest levels down.

 

The crazy thing is that Schneider has more at bats in September than August. He got like 50 PAs in his hot August. So of course this created a cycle of pressure. Being Barry Bonds wasn't good enough, so every game it was like he needed 3/4 with 2 homers to play the next day, so of course predictably this led to a slump.

 

If a guy is this hot, with great minor league stats, play him every f***ing day. Schneider should have been in their every god-damn day since August 4th.

 

Shapiro needs to go. Needs to resign Sunday at 6:00 pm, or be fired as the Mariner game ends badly for us, on the big screen (2/3 years season ends watching out of town scoreboard), a representative from Rogers needs to come on after Seattle clinches, and announce Shapiro is fired, and apologize to Davis Schneider and AA for the fiasco this franchise has become.

 

Schneider needs to be in this lineup. We have the ABs to know what Espinal/Whit/Biggio are - we don't know what we have yet in Schneider, and his upside could be a 3-4 WAR 2B. Looking beyond this season, he's a potential godsend for this team given the payroll bump over the last two years. If you can plug Schneider in at 2B next year (with Biggio floating through the infield), and Varsho at CF (the only place he can add value right now) after rough arbitration raises the Jays should have in the neighborhood of $40M to plug 3B, LF, 5th Starting Pitcher, DH.

 

Given the internal options, during hte offseason you do a one year deal or a low cost trade for a 3B who simply acts as floor until Orelvis/Barger force their way into the lineup. Chapman has become much easier to replace than I thought he would be. For your fifth starter, you then have Manoah (if he can get his s*** together), White, Francis as SP depth so you take a high risk flyer on an injury prone veteran to a one year deal. That probably leaves you ~$25M for a desperately needed big bat (preferably two). A bruising bat in the middle of this lineup completely changes the offense, especially if Vlad/Kirk eat more hummus this off-season and can see some sort of rebound next year.

[Delgalladay]

It's crazy Chapman and Belt combined (who have been our 4-5 hitters most of the time) only have 90 RBIs for the season. Chapman had 21 RBIs after the first month. He hasn't had a double digit month in RBIs since.

[Stangstag]

It's crazy Chapman and Belt combined (who have been our 4-5 hitters most of the time) only have 90 RBIs for the season. Chapman had 21 RBIs after the first month. He hasn't had a double digit month in RBIs since.

 

He really pulled a reverse Bo 2022 this year. Vlad kinda went MIA after April too, but he seems like he might be back

[Stangstag]

so worst case we are out of a playoff spot by tomorrow night.

 

Right, if we lose 2 and Seattle wins 2

[BigCecil]

I don't get why they didn't add an impact bat (s) at the deadline knowing the underperformance. I don't buy that nobody useful was available.

 

In 21 Soler, Rosario and Pederson raked. Soler had come down off a 48 HRs and 136 wRC+ in '19. Pederson sucks against LHP but has a 130 wRC+ career vs RHP. Rosario is a LA bat but got hot at the right time. Useful pieces that didn't cost much. 2/3 had a offensive MLB track record and upside. GMs have to be good to be lucky and lucky to be good. Davis has been found money but no MLB history of success. Clements or Horwitz same.

 

It comes down to your teams needs/window and willing sellers. Sellers are going to influenced by the offer value and where there team is positioned at the deadline.

 

We never really know who is being discussed as most of the talks we never hear about. Nobody expected AZ to pry Sewald away when they were both in contention.

[Stangstag]

I don't get why they didn't add an impact bat (s) at the deadline knowing the underperformance. I don't buy that nobody useful was available.

 

In 21 Soler, Rosario and Pederson raked. Soler had come down off a 48 HRs and 136 wRC+ in '19. Pederson sucks against LHP but has a 130 wRC+ career vs RHP. Rosario is a LA bat but got hot at the right time. Useful pieces that didn't cost much. 2/3 had a offensive MLB track record and upside. GMs have to be good to be lucky and lucky to be good. Davis has been found money but no MLB history of success. Clements or Horwitz same.

 

It comes down to your teams needs/window and willing sellers. Sellers are going to influenced by the offer value and where there team is positioned at the deadline.

 

We never really know who is being discussed as most of the talks we never hear about. Nobody expected AZ to pry Sewald away when they were both in contention.

 

We really should have added someone. Too late to think about it now though. Definitely have a lot of work to do regarding the lineup for 2024

[John_Havok]

I don't get why they didn't add an impact bat (s) at the deadline knowing the underperformance. I don't buy that nobody useful was available.

 

In 21 Soler, Rosario and Pederson raked. Soler had come down off a 48 HRs and 136 wRC+ in '19. Pederson sucks against LHP but has a 130 wRC+ career vs RHP. Rosario is a LA bat but got hot at the right time. Useful pieces that didn't cost much. 2/3 had a offensive MLB track record and upside. GMs have to be good to be lucky and lucky to be good. Davis has been found money but no MLB history of success. Clements or Horwitz same.

 

It comes down to your teams needs/window and willing sellers. Sellers are going to influenced by the offer value and where there team is positioned at the deadline.

 

We never really know who is being discussed as most of the talks we never hear about. Nobody expected AZ to pry Sewald away when they were both in contention.

 

I don't really recall but did any big bats move at the deadline? Does Burger qualify ?

[wilko]

I don't really recall but did any big bats move at the deadline? Does Burger qualify ?

 

I'd say so. He's been playing well since going to Miami.

[Laika]

I don't really recall but did any big bats move at the deadline? Does Burger qualify ?

 

Josh Bell

Tommy Pham

Jake Burger

Garret Cooper

Luis Urias

Nelson Velasquez

AJ Pollock

Jaimer Candelario

Mark Canha

Cron and Grichuk

Carlos Santana

lil' Nickyyyyyyyyyyyy Lopez

Jace Peterson

Amed Rosario

Kike Hernandez

Josh Rojas (Sewald)

DeJong (lol)

 

Most of these suck of course but some okay bats at the top. Pham would have fit Toronto.

[Masterbather]

Josh Bell

Tommy Pham

Jake Burger

Garret Cooper

Luis Urias

Nelson Velasquez

AJ Pollock

Jaimer Candelario

Mark Canha

Cron and Grichuk

Carlos Santana

lil' Nickyyyyyyyyyyyy Lopez

Jace Peterson

Amed Rosario

Kike Hernandez

Josh Rojas (Sewald)

DeJong (lol)

 

Most of these suck of course but some okay bats at the top. Pham would have fit Toronto.

 

I don't think it would have been worth the assets, this team needs more than a short-term fix. A mediocre bat at the deadline does not alter this team's ceiling. It needs some heavy lifting in the off-season. Hopefully with somebody different in charge.

[glory]

I don't get why they didn't add an impact bat (s) at the deadline knowing the underperformance. I don't buy that nobody useful was available.

 

In 21 Soler, Rosario and Pederson raked. Soler had come down off a 48 HRs and 136 wRC+ in '19. Pederson sucks against LHP but has a 130 wRC+ career vs RHP. Rosario is a LA bat but got hot at the right time. Useful pieces that didn't cost much. 2/3 had a offensive MLB track record and upside. GMs have to be good to be lucky and lucky to be good. Davis has been found money but no MLB history of success. Clements or Horwitz same.

 

It comes down to your teams needs/window and willing sellers. Sellers are going to influenced by the offer value and where there team is positioned at the deadline.

 

We never really know who is being discussed as most of the talks we never hear about. Nobody expected AZ to pry Sewald away when they were both in contention.

 

The Jays lucked out with no big deadline pickup because Davis Schneider ended up being significantly better than anyone they realistically could have picked up. They weren’t trading for a 2 WAR in Aug/Sept deadline pickup.

 

The Jays were in a weird position this season because they had guys in every position with no real way to clear playing time. Like they needed more offense in LF but they weren’t going to get rid of Varsho, for example. The only thing they could have done was trade guys like Chapman and Merrifield, while trying to trade for more long term options (like Burger) but that’s with the benefit of hindsight knowing how bad those two have been the last two months. They were kinda stuck hoping the existing roster started playing to their potential. Unfortunately they haven’t.

[Jimcanuck]

I don't think it would have been worth the assets, this team needs more than a short-term fix. A mediocre bat at the deadline does not alter this team's ceiling. It needs some heavy lifting in the off-season. Hopefully with somebody different in charge.

 

lol, this is ridiculous

[G-Snarls]

I demand a win tonight to appease my anxiety

[M.E.]

I demand a win tonight to appease my anxiety

And make that happen with them up 10-0 after 3

[glory]

This team was not intended to be a station-to-station offense. It has just ended up that way because a bunch of guys decided to not hit as many homers as they should. Or they got hurt (Jansen, Bo).

 

The original design was basically... thump up top and then diversity at the bottom.

 

If this offense is/was firing on all cylinders there are some total package hitters (Springer, Bo, Vlad), high average hitters (Kirk and Whit), OBP machines (Belt, Kirk, Biggio), a power/speed guy (Varsho), speed guy (KK), and a pair of bottom of the order big HR hitters (Chapman, Jansen).

 

Of course it just didn't really work out this way. It is really boring. They don't do anything well. They are just "okay" at hitting for AVG and OBP and that's the core of the offense - just being okay at getting singles and getting on base. lmao.

 

Toronto is 11th in AVG, 9th in OBP, 17th in SLG, 22nd in SB, 18th in HR, 28th in BsR (gross), tied 11th in wRC+, 3rd in defensive runs.

 

I do think they need the HR hitters to hit some f***ing homers to do anything in the playoffs.

 

Yeah they didn't intend for the offense to be like this but it's basically been this way the entire season. Completely unwatchable rooting for an offense that consistently needs 3 hits to score 1 run, and have slugs like Kirk running the bases on top of that. Although I'm sure there is someone out there who enjoys singles being hit the other way constantly and has found this season to be exciting because of it.

 

The Jays have 4 holes to fill in the off season. One can be filled internally (Babe), but the other 3 better be filled by players with power. Minimum .200 ISO or don't go after them.

[Brownie19]

Yeah they didn't intend for the offense to be like this but it's basically been this way the entire season. Completely unwatchable rooting for an offense that consistently needs 3 hits to score 1 run, and have slugs like Kirk running the bases on top of that. Although I'm sure there is someone out there who enjoys singles being hit the other way constantly and has found this season to be exciting because of it.

 

The Jays have 4 holes to fill in the off season. One can be filled internally (Babe), but the other 3 better be filled by players with power. Minimum .200 ISO or don't go after them.

 

There are only 47 qualified batters in all of MLB this year with an ISO > .200 sir.

[Terminator]

This team was not intended to be a station-to-station offense. It has just ended up that way because a bunch of guys decided to not hit as many homers as they should. Or they got hurt (Jansen, Bo).

 

The original design was basically... thump up top and then diversity at the bottom.

 

If this offense is/was firing on all cylinders there are some total package hitters (Springer, Bo, Vlad), high average hitters (Kirk and Whit), OBP machines (Belt, Kirk, Biggio), a power/speed guy (Varsho), speed guy (KK), and a pair of bottom of the order big HR hitters (Chapman, Jansen).

 

Of course it just didn't really work out this way. It is really boring. They don't do anything well. They are just "okay" at hitting for AVG and OBP and that's the core of the offense - just being okay at getting singles and getting on base. lmao.

 

Toronto is 11th in AVG, 9th in OBP, 17th in SLG, 22nd in SB, 18th in HR, 28th in BsR (gross), tied 11th in wRC+, 3rd in defensive runs.

 

I do think they need the HR hitters to hit some f***ing homers to do anything in the playoffs.

 

Agreed and to add Jays really suck at stealing bases. With the new rules I thought we might see some of the totals increase but we get thrown out a ton. Bo I thought would be better but he's only 4 out of 7. Varso has 16 but he's been thrown out 7 times. Merrifield has 26 but he's been thrown out 10 times.

 

The only bright spots here are Kiermaier who is 13/14 and Springer who is 20/25. They might want to limit the injury risk with Kiermaier but from here on out I'd have him running wild.

[John_Havok]

Agreed and to add Jays really suck at stealing bases. With the new rules I thought we might see some of the totals increase but we get thrown out a ton. Bo I thought would be better but he's only 4 out of 7. Varso has 16 but he's been thrown out 7 times. Merrifield has 26 but he's been thrown out 10 times.

 

The only bright spots here are Kiermaier who is 13/14 and Springer who is 20/25. They might want to limit the injury risk with Kiermaier but from here on out I'd have him running wild.

 

Well honestly, while the Jays have a few guys who could run more, their aren't the brightest bunch at picking their spots. Varsho is fast but he really gets terrible jumps imo, Whit is a nice combo of good jumps and good speed but tends to get a bit too aggressive in certain scenarios. Springer and KK both have injury concerns if you let them go too much.

 

Bo has good instincts but he's lost too much speed to be effective. Chapman might be good at it with his speed, but for that he'd have to get on base once in a while. Biggio is generally good at stealing but he's not really aggressive at trying it. he steals bases like he takes pitches; seemingly indifferent 90% of the time.

 

Vlad, Kirk, Belt, and espinal are all varying degree of slugs, and Jansen when healthy wont move the needle either.