General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2023)

[connorp]

I think you’re probably right. They thought well even though he’s fat he’s raking and body shaming is reprehensible behaviour so it’s fine instead of being proactive

 

There’s probably internal turmoil with Rogers’ progressive general counsel sending out memos and seminars talking about body shaming and then the Bluejays athletic staff lol

[Spanky99]

They all can do it. It’s not even that difficult for them with resources, disposable income, time etc.

 

The question is whether or not they put in the time

 

Absolutely, it's kind of sad the Jays had to ship both professions out for these guys in '21... it might happen again for 3 guys.

[L54]

If it were some dipshit bench guy...ya sure. But two guys who are core pieces are never gonna see anything punitive done to them for any extended period of time. What purpose does cutting off your nose to spite your face accomplish?

 

It would just hurt the team. Trading guys like that if there's a partner and a good return would be far more likely than ever seeing a guy like Kirk or Vlad benched. And a trade for that reason is pretty unlikely.

 

And therein lies the problem. Inmates running the asylum

 

If you cannot hold each individual to the same standard you will not have the respect of the group. When the core pieces are also the clear corner cutters it spreads like a disease

[Spanky99]

And therein lies the problem. Inmates running the asylum

 

If you cannot hold each individual to the same standard you will not have the respect of the group. When the core pieces are also the clear corner cutters it spreads like a disease

 

Can't let it happen. 100%

 

I'm sure it's been addressed.

[John_Havok]

And therein lies the problem. Inmates running the asylum

 

If you cannot hold each individual to the same standard you will not have the respect of the group. When the core pieces are also the clear corner cutters it spreads like a disease

 

It has literally nothing to do with this. Man you people are thicker than Kirk's thighs.

[connorp]

Scroll around the threads. There's more than one poster here who thinks the Jays have, or should have the power to determine what players do in the offseason.

 

All they can do is suggest a course of action.

 

I feel like the NBA and NFL worked it into their CBAs where they could hold them accountable for off-season goals. I know at least the NFL. I guess mlb doesn’t have much of that problem, as it’s a lesser level of activity

[Spanky99]

It has literally nothing to do with this. Man you people are thick.

 

John, you're thinking layman terms, to baseball... how can you tell me much is different?

 

 

 

 

lol

[Spanky99]

Boys are pro's and need to go, it's simple as that, for there future. Not just the Dot.

[John_Havok]

I feel like the NBA and NFL worked it into their CBAs where they could hold them accountable for off-season goals. I know at least the NFL. I guess mlb doesn’t have much of that problem, as it’s a lesser level of activity

 

Pretty sure those are two very different sports than MLB. The physicality of the NFL and NBA compared to MLB isnt even close.

 

I'm also pretty sure they don't.

[Omar]

The Blue Jays announced that they have selected the contract of outfielder Cam Eden. Infielder Ernie Clement has been optioned in a corresponding active roster move with infielder Mason McCoy designated for assignment to open a 40-man spot.

 

 

This must be a pinch runner move. 53/57 in SB attempts this year in 131 games

 

Dalton Pompey circa 2023

[John_Havok]

John, you're thinking layman terms, to baseball... how can you tell me much is different?

 

 

 

 

lol

 

No dude, I'm translating my thoughts to layman's terms so the mouth breathers can try to understand it. It's clearly not working.

 

But I understand where it's coming from. People, when faced with frustration about pretty much anything, need to lay blame. Laying blame is easy and it's easiest to latch on to the most obvious visual attribute and just say "that's the problem" and then assume that some authority over the source of that frustration should step in and force change so their frustration is alleviated, regardless of whether that is right or wrong. People are intrinsically self-absorbed and very rarely understand when that self absorption doesn't apply to someone else's life

[Brownie19]

No dude, I'm translating my thoughts to layman's terms so the mouth breathers can try to understand it. It's clearly not working.

 

But I understand where it's coming from. People, when faced with frustration about pretty much anything, need to lay blame. Laying blame is easy and it's easiest to latch on to the most obvious visual attribute and just say "that's the problem" and then assume that some authority over the source of that frustration should step in and force change so their frustration is alleviated, regardless of whether that is right or wrong. People are intrinsically self-absorbed and very rarely understand when that self absorption doesn't apply to someone else's life

 

Wow - that is spot on.

[Omar]

From the 20 most ridiculous contract clauses list....

 

No. 11: Random Weight Testing?

By the time he signed his last contract, Curt Schilling was losing the battle of the bulge and the Red Sox felt the need to help him slim down.

 

His last deal with the team included $2 million in incentives, which would be won if he made weight at six random weigh-ins throughout the season.

 

What if we pay our fats $10K for every pound lost?

[L54]

No dude, I'm translating my thoughts to layman's terms so the mouth breathers can try to understand it. It's clearly not working.

 

But I understand where it's coming from. People, when faced with frustration about pretty much anything, need to lay blame. Laying blame is easy and it's easiest to latch on to the most obvious visual attribute and just say "that's the problem" and then assume that some authority over the source of that frustration should step in and force change so their frustration is alleviated, regardless of whether that is right or wrong. People are intrinsically self-absorbed and very rarely understand when that self absorption doesn't apply to someone else's life

 

This mouth breather has 10x the amount of time in sports than you. Might even be 100x to be honest

 

For you to sit here and tell me that the Toronto Blue Jays, a professional sports team have no control over the physical conditioning of their players actually just confirms that you don’t have a clue what you’re talking about so I’ll forgive your ignorance

[L54]

From the 20 most ridiculous contract clauses list....

 

No. 11: Random Weight Testing?

By the time he signed his last contract, Curt Schilling was losing the battle of the bulge and the Red Sox felt the need to help him slim down.

 

His last deal with the team included $2 million in incentives, which would be won if he made weight at six random weigh-ins throughout the season.

 

What if we pay our fats $10K for every pound lost?

 

Must be a fake article

[Masterbather]

This mouth breather has 10x the amount of time in sports than you. Might even be 100x to be honest

 

For you to sit here and tell me that the Toronto Blue Jays, a professional sports team have no control over the physical conditioning of their players actually just confirms that you don’t have a clue what you’re talking about so I’ll forgive your ignorance

 

Agreed. 1,000%.

 

They control playing time, they control options in the early part of their career. For anybody to suggest that these players, who are expensive assets being paid good sums of money, can do whatever the f*** they want and the organization can go f*** themselves, well if you let that happen that's on you as an organization. You have options. Use them.

[L54]

Agreed. 1,000%.

 

They control playing time, they control options in the early part of their career. For anybody to suggest that these players, who are expensive assets being paid good sums of money, can do whatever the f*** they want and the organization can go f*** themselves, well if you let that happen that's on you as an organization. You have options. Use them.

 

Exactly and to be honest an organization is doing a disservice to the team, teammates and the player himself if they’re not demanding excellence in all facets of the game

[Terminator]

So are you guys saying we should bench Kirk bc he's fat and play Heineman?

[Spanky99]

No dude, I'm translating my thoughts to layman's terms so the mouth breathers can try to understand it. It's clearly not working.

 

But I understand where it's coming from. People, when faced with frustration about pretty much anything, need to lay blame. Laying blame is easy and it's easiest to latch on to the most obvious visual attribute and just say "that's the problem" and then assume that some authority over the source of that frustration should step in and force change so their frustration is alleviated, regardless of whether that is right or wrong. People are intrinsically self-absorbed and very rarely understand when that self absorption doesn't apply to someone else's life

 

Cool, well said. Now who's at fault? lol

[L54]

So are you guys saying we should bench Kirk bc he's fat and play Heineman?

 

No.

[jaysblue]

The major issue with this year's offense has largely been the lack of performance by key members of the team who were retained and not the players who were sent out/acquired. Both of Teoscar and Gurriel are each sitting at 109 WRC+ values respectively so the lack of their presence on the roster hasn't been the key factor holding the offense back this season. Two of the three major additions have hit up to or even beyond expectations as well so the new roster additions largely did their part offensively. There was the weird 4 month stretch where the team floundered with runners on base that's reversed itself since August, but the lack of home run power has largely continued despite the amount of power contained on the roster. If you had a crystal ball to look ahead and know that nearly the entire team would stop hitting home runs to their capabilities you would have the chance to either adjust the hitting approach or tweak the roster as acquired.

 

I'd like to know what bats were available at the trade deadline as there weren't too many notable names that actually moved this year. I've seen Tommy Pham floated as a possibility but it seems unlikely that his 110 WRC+ since being traded would have been a massive difference maker.

 

There is nothing wrong in questioning if Atkins could have done a better job during the offseason in improving the teams defense without sacrificing that much offense. Yes most of the blame lays on the players, but Atkins put this team together at the end of the day. He owns some of it.

 

As for the deadline, there were definitely bats available. Don't make it seem like there weren't any. As well, the Jays could have addressed the issue earlier before the deadline if they wanted to, but meh.

[Terminator]

No.

 

Should we option him?

[jaysblue]

Who got the Cy Young votes? Who led the team in ERA, pitching wins, IP? Who was named #1 starter this year? Who was tasked with starting the first playoff game last year? Just because a small cabal of dorks use their nerd stats to state that Gausman was relatively unlucky and predict that he would be better going forward doesn't mean that in 2022 Manoah didn't function as the ace to the franchise, to most fans and casual observers of the team.

 

All that aside, you f***ing knew exactly what I meant by the short form "ace" in this context. Significant pitcher, pitcher expected to be #1/#2 in 2023 etc. Using the one word "ace" gets the point across that Manoah taking a s*** all over 2023 was a significant setback to the team but despite that, the pitching has improved. You could have just stuck with your first paragraph and leave that little piece well enough alone. But no no, you had to be pedantic about it so you can feel good about yourself being one of those lame *******s from last year "but Gausman was better than Manoah" for a few seconds of your pathetic life. Was it really worth it?

 

Lmao

[Terminator]

There is nothing wrong in questioning if Atkins could have done a better job during the offseason in improving the teams defense without sacrificing that much offense.

 

Varsho isn't hitting but his other acquisitions are like KK and Belt. It's not their fault the offense sucked.

 

As for the deadline, there were definitely bats available. Don't make it seem like there weren't any. As well, the Jays could have addressed the issue earlier before the deadline if they wanted to, but meh.

 

What bats were available? Tommy Pham but he's been outproduced by Schneider. Who else?

[L54]

Should we option him?

 

For who?

[Terminator]

For who?

 

That's my point. You and masturbator are saying that there are ways to deal with fat players and options was mentioned multiple times. Other than that or benching him what are you suggesting?

[L54]

That's my point. You and masturbator are saying that there are ways to deal with fat players and options was mentioned multiple times. Other than that or benching him what are you suggesting?

 

I thought it was pretty obvious any sort of body recomp would have to take place over the offseason and not in the next 10 days

[Masterbather]

That's my point. You and masturbator are saying that there are ways to deal with fat players and options was mentioned multiple times. Other than that or benching him what are you suggesting?

 

Those are the primary options and you establish that before the off-season in private to give them a fair chance to get in shape, offer them all the resources in the world, their own chef and trainer the whole nine yards. At that point, if you've told them what you expected of them, and it's a reasonable thing to expect, and you've given them the resources, and they flat out refuse then you can't go forward with players like this. You can't have core pieces who don't want to be professionals, and professionals have to take their bodies seriously.

 

The alternative is to send a message to everyone in your organization that you're not going to take fitness and nutrition seriously, to run these guys out there and then what? Do you lock them up to long-term contracts with those bodies? Do you wait for them to break down and then try to trade them? You can't count on them long term so if you have to cut bait then cut bait.

[Terminator]

I thought it was pretty obvious any sort of body recomp would have to take place over the offseason and not in the next 10 days

 

Yeah and if he doesn't do it in the offseason then benching him or optioning him are on the table?

[Brownie19]

I thought it was pretty obvious any sort of body recomp would have to take place over the offseason and not in the next 10 days

 

I think that's the point. You need them to stay in shape during the offseason. Your only leverage is to tell them that if they show up to camp 30 lbs overweight that you'll send their ass to AAA (or trade them?). But if star players show up 30 lbs overweight and you want to send a message by optioning them to AAA - that's going to have a major impact on your ability to have success and will have a huge impact on your relationship with that player. You can't just option Vlad, Manoah and Kirk to AAA and expect to replace them on the big league roster. Even if you did - it will take a long time for them to get back in shape and get recalled (I guess if we're talking 5-10 lbs, maybe that's easier to drop quickly?).

 

You can suggest the organization should set the tone that they won't stand for players coming to camp overweight and pound their chests like they have so much power - but she's a lot harder to do when it actually happens with some of your best players that you were counting on to be stars in a year you're chasing a championship...

 

I'm not sure anyone was ready for the Jays to 'throw' 2023 to prove a point to the 3 chubbies.