General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2023)

[BigCecil]

When he got injured? For like the season?

 

Spank, JD was a 5 WAR player in 2017 when we weren't really contending, and in no window. They could have chosen to move that big asset then for more value than Merryweather in '18. Calculated risk that failed. Would have made them less barren.

[Jonn]

No. After 2016 when many thought the Jays window had closed.

 

It wasn't just closed. A giant cement boulder blocked the entrance being opened forever.

[BigCecil]

Barker's ripping JS, VGJ... lmao

 

Rekt!!!

 

Oh man; you folks need to listen to this fun.

 

On Blair and Barker? I actually like Barker now. I think he has grown in that role. When he first showed up he was just goofy.

[glory]

No. After 2016 when many thought the Jays window had closed.

 

The time to trade everyone was July 2017. That team had proven it was old and had no gas left in the tank, but they let it ride for another year and got 30 cents on the dollar for everyone. That decision probably cost them either additional young pieces they could have paired with this core or more trade bait they could have turned into vets. Just an awful decision in hindsight.

[Masterbather]

The time to trade everyone was July 2017. That team had proven it was old and had no gas left in the tank, but they let it ride for another year and got 30 cents on the dollar for everyone. That decision probably cost them either additional young pieces they could have paired with this core or more trade bait they could have turned into vets. Just an awful decision in hindsight.

 

No hindsight required. Everyone with a brain knew it at the time.

[BigCecil]

The time to trade everyone was July 2017. That team had proven it was old and had no gas left in the tank, but they let it ride for another year and got 30 cents on the dollar for everyone. That decision probably cost them either additional young pieces they could have paired with this core or more trade bait they could have turned into vets. Just an awful decision in hindsight.

 

It was obvious to most of us at the time. They hung on to Stro too long too and that also turned into a shitshow. We ended up getting SWR and LHP X. SWR + top prospect at the time plus $120M became Berrios through ‘28. Berrios has given us 3.7 WAR first couple seasons for $37M worth about $31M.

Edited September 16, 2023 by BigCecil

[jaysblue]

Mon: The playoffs will be easy to make

Tues: The playoffs might not be easy to make

Wed: We better win tomorrow or the playoffs won't be easy to make

Thurs: The season is officially over

Fri: The playoffs might just be easy to make after all

 

Blue Jays are winning the World Series!

[Dick_Pole]

Whining about a 5 year old trade again. Confirmed we have reached maximum Krylian-level negativity on the board and Jays are about to get hot. I assume we are not going to hear the end of the Donaldson whining until this generation of posters die out.

 

Like I said a bunch of times before, pretend it was Donaldson and Liriano for Merryweather and Hernandez if your mental health is still suffering over it. While they were busy botching Donaldson they equally played Liriano like a fiddle. Hernandez for Donaldson would be a pretty good outcome. But no no no, gotta harp on the one bad while overlooking to equally good in hindsight moves. Because the other 29 FOs in the league always do everything 100% perfect.

 

In another universe, the genius armchair QBs here would have seen Guerrero and Bichette on their second years of combined $800 million contracts. Now I can only imagine how many levels of f***ed this team would be in that universe. Under the current more or less stand pat iteration, this team has a lot of options moving forward, even if the on field product scheduled for its third 90+ win season in a row has been kind of disappointing.

 

Also, I was one of the first ones to call out Atkins as a beta weenie. Now that the roster is looking at a second career as guests on My 600 Pound Life, people are finally catching on. No question a drill sergeant is needed more than a computer geek to run this team but if we are going to do an analysis on his tenure here, it might as well be a fair and balanced take. Moves wise he's okay. Money wise he's okay. Dork stats wise he's okay. Leadership wise he's s***. The three kind of balance out the one to the point where the Jays are a consistent above average team but World Series longshot. Can we live with that? Who knows. Phillies were a longshot last year and they at least played bridesmaid.

[jaysblue]

The time to trade everyone was July 2017. That team had proven it was old and had no gas left in the tank, but they let it ride for another year and got 30 cents on the dollar for everyone. That decision probably cost them either additional young pieces they could have paired with this core or more trade bait they could have turned into vets. Just an awful decision in hindsight.

 

Exactly. The Atkins supporters will never bring this up though because it doesn't fit their narrative.

[jaysblue]

It was obvious to most of us at the time. They hung on to Stro too long too and that also turned into a shitshow. We ended up getting SWR and LHP X. SWR + top prospect at the time plus $120M became Berrios through ‘28. Berrios has given us 3.7 WAR first couple seasons for $37M worth about $31M.

 

Yeah why doesn't get Atkins get criticized for that? Honest question.

[BigCecil]

Whining about a 5 year old trade again. Confirmed we have reached maximum Krylian-level negativity on the board and Jays are about to get hot. I assume we are not going to hear the end of the Donaldson whining until this generation of posters die out.

 

Like I said a bunch of times before, pretend it was Donaldson and Liriano for Merryweather and Hernandez if your mental health is still suffering over it. While they were busy botching Donaldson they equally played Liriano like a fiddle. Hernandez for Donaldson would be a pretty good outcome. But no no no, gotta harp on the one bad while overlooking to equally good in hindsight moves. Because the other 29 FOs in the league always do everything 100% perfect.

 

In another universe, the genius armchair QBs here would have seen Guerrero and Bichette on their second years of combined $800 million contracts. Now I can only imagine how many levels of f***ed this team would be in that universe. Under the current more or less stand pat iteration, this team has a lot of options moving forward, even if the on field product scheduled for its third 90+ win season in a row has been kind of disappointing.

 

Also, I was one of the first ones to call out Atkins as a beta weenie. Now that the roster is looking at a second career as guests on My 600 Pound Life, people are finally catching on. No question a drill sergeant is needed more than a computer geek to run this team but if we are going to do an analysis on his tenure here, it might as well be a fair and balanced take. Moves wise he's okay. Money wise he's okay. Dork stats wise he's okay. Leadership wise he's s***. The three kind of balance out the one to the point where the Jays are a consistent above average team but World Series longshot. Can we live with that? Who knows. Phillies were a longshot last year and they at least played bridesmaid.

 

People still talk about Cito, AA and Thor. RA Dickey. Even Dave Steib a time or two...its a message board. Thats what happens. You wanna fap Ross....go for it. Fill yer boots as they say on the Rock.

[Dick_Pole]

Re: Cito, by people you mean that lunatic Olerud363 who has resorted to talking to himself. He doesn't count. Rest of the guys you mentioned seldom get talked about and if they do it's in varying contexts. It's always the damn Donaldson trade here.

[Masterbather]

Are there still Atkins supporters on here? There can't possibly be.

 

I know there are still Shapiro supporters on here, I don't get that either.

[BCZ]

Are there still Atkins supporters on here? There can't possibly be.

 

I know there are still Shapiro supporters on here, I don't get that either.

 

Why not? It's not their fault guys like Varsho, Guerrero, Chapman underdelivered.

[Masterbather]

Why not? It's not their fault guys like Varsho, Guerrero, Chapman underdelivered.

 

Get the f*** out of here with that s***. 8 years of ********.

 

Guerrero had been trending downward since the first half of 2021. He's having a worse season than anticipated but not by much, at least not relative to what I expected and what anyone else should expected based on how he's been trending.

 

Varsho has always carried a limp noodle for a bat.

 

Chapman isn't even that far off from what he's been for the past couple of years overall.

 

How about the incredible luck we got in our rotation considering that our backup plan to start the season was f***ing Mitch White? We weren't punished nearly as much as we should have been for that horrible planning. Our season should have been over before the all-star break.

 

The bottom line is we sit here with one elite pitcher on our major league roster. Zero elite hitters. No homegrown starting pitchers, except for the fat one in the minors who's being a bitch.

 

Speaking of which, how about the incredibly low bar set by the leadership of this organization? The one that allows fat players to continue being fat and the one that allows players to repeat the same mistakes without consequence? The one that's allowing the fat pitcher to walk all over them right now. Entitlement all over the place. That starts at the top.

 

AA could have and should have still been here. He smelled the horseshit from a mile away.

[Olerud363]

Re: Cito, by people you mean that lunatic Olerud363 who has resorted to talking to himself. He doesn't count. Rest of the guys you mentioned seldom get talked about and if they do it's in varying contexts. It's always the damn Donaldson trade here.

 

Cito is mentioned all the time by people other than myself. I rarely bring him up out of the blue and mostly just react to who-ever is claiming Cito was a great manager.

 

I also think Cito is a fascinating guy, even though I don't like him much. He truly believes he, Cito Gaston, can massively affect the career arc and performance of his players. Even as manager he was constantly talking about hitting and his hitting coach's were always an extension of himself.

 

I remember he took credit for Kelly Gruber's 1990 season, claiming he guided Kelly every at bat while essentially stealing signs for him.

Edited September 16, 2023 by Olerud363

[Spanky99]

They failed to sell Donaldson at the height of his trade value.

 

He got hurt. lol at height of his trade value, blame Rogers.

[Spanky99]

No. After 2016 when many thought the Jays window had closed.

 

Rogers wouldn't let them sell, meat.

[Spanky99]

Spank, JD was a 5 WAR player in 2017 when we weren't really contending, and in no window. They could have chosen to move that big asset then for more value than Merryweather in '18. Calculated risk that failed. Would have made them less barren.

 

Need a dance partner, and he got hurt. Again, Rogers tied their hands.

[Jimcanuck]

Spank, JD was a 5 WAR player in 2017 when we weren't really contending, and in no window. They could have chosen to move that big asset then for more value than Merryweather in '18. Calculated risk that failed. Would have made them less barren.

 

Correct. The entire off season after 2017 I was advocating a JD trade in here. Not trading him is not quite on the Ohtani scale, but still pretty bad.

[jaysblue]

Whining about a 5 year old trade again. Confirmed we have reached maximum Krylian-level negativity on the board and Jays are about to get hot. I assume we are not going to hear the end of the Donaldson whining until this generation of posters die out.

 

Like I said a bunch of times before, pretend it was Donaldson and Liriano for Merryweather and Hernandez if your mental health is still suffering over it. While they were busy botching Donaldson they equally played Liriano like a fiddle. Hernandez for Donaldson would be a pretty good outcome. But no no no, gotta harp on the one bad while overlooking to equally good in hindsight moves. Because the other 29 FOs in the league always do everything 100% perfect.

 

In another universe, the genius armchair QBs here would have seen Guerrero and Bichette on their second years of combined $800 million contracts. Now I can only imagine how many levels of f***ed this team would be in that universe. Under the current more or less stand pat iteration, this team has a lot of options moving forward, even if the on field product scheduled for its third 90+ win season in a row has been kind of disappointing.

 

Also, I was one of the first ones to call out Atkins as a beta weenie. Now that the roster is looking at a second career as guests on My 600 Pound Life, people are finally catching on. No question a drill sergeant is needed more than a computer geek to run this team but if we are going to do an analysis on his tenure here, it might as well be a fair and balanced take. Moves wise he's okay. Money wise he's okay. Dork stats wise he's okay. Leadership wise he's s***. The three kind of balance out the one to the point where the Jays are a consistent above average team but World Series longshot. Can we live with that? Who knows. Phillies were a longshot last year and they at least played bridesmaid.

 

I don't think anyone is whining about a 5-year-old trade again. Just was pointing out some missed opportunities by the Atkins FO earlier on. A lot of posters were blaming AA for leaving this organization in awful shape which isn't true. This current FO believed the Jays still had a small window after the 2016 season and was evident since they didn't trade off anyone until 2018, which yes was a year too late. Atkins still had a former MVP he could have traded, an All-Star closer, a solid No. 2 starter and others who he could have moved at the deadline in 2017 or offseason.

 

Atkins has made a lot of great deals as we all know, but yes some indecision earlier on and some trades have been meh. You can say that with most GMs, and there is nothing wrong with that. When AA is brought up on here, a lot of posters harp on the Marlins and Mets trade to define his tenure in Toronto. They were awful trades yes, but AA also made a lot of excellent moves here as well and brought the Jays within striking distance of a World Series which often gets overlooked.

 

Atkins isn't and hasn't been perfect here. He's made a lot of great baseball moves and has put together competitive teams over the last 3-4 years. In the big scheme of things, this team still hasn't won a Postseason game but lets hope that could change if the Jays can sneak into the Postseason this year!

[jaysblue]

Re: Cito, by people you mean that lunatic Olerud363 who has resorted to talking to himself. He doesn't count. Rest of the guys you mentioned seldom get talked about and if they do it's in varying contexts. It's always the damn Donaldson trade here.

 

When it's AA, everyone brings up the Marlins and Mets trade to define his tenure here in Toronto. No different.

[jaysblue]

He got hurt. lol at height of his trade value, blame Rogers.

 

He was healthy for the most part in 2017 playing in 131 games and posting a 5 WAR season. He did miss time earlier in the season from April to the end of May. Could have been traded at the 2017 deadline or following offseason.

 

We obviously don't know if Rogers pressured this management group to keep a contending team on the field. It's possible after the 2015 and 2016 runs, but you're making an assumption. I don't think anyone on here was advocating Atkins should have started trading away guys before the 2017 season, but after several key injuries and aging players breaking down earlier on, they could have started moving some pieces that summer or following offseason.

[jaysblue]

Are there still Atkins supporters on here? There can't possibly be.

 

I know there are still Shapiro supporters on here, I don't get that either.

 

I am an Atkins supporter but occasionally will get tarred and feathered by some on here for criticizing him on certain things. His tenure here has been subpar to date, but I hope he still gets another chance at it in 2024. This season is also far from over as well, so we'll see what happens if the Jays can sneak into the Playoffs.

[Laika]

The only thing more annoying than the Blue Jays playing poorly is all the narcissistic I-told-you-so cynics who now feel simultaneously vindicated yet still curiously indignant.

 

You're not special because you were a fence sitter preseason and the team decided to perform at their 10th percentile projection.

[jaysblue]

The only thing more annoying than the Blue Jays playing poorly is all the narcissistic I-told-you-so cynics who now feel simultaneously vindicated yet still curiously indignant.

 

You're not special because you were a fence sitter preseason and the team decided to perform at their 10th percentile projection.

 

You're probably the most narcissistic poster on this board.

 

There is nothing wrong in criticizing Atkins and the FO. There is nothing wrong in criticizing AA while he was here as well. It's a baseball forum.

[The Iceman]

The time to trade everyone was July 2017. That team had proven it was old and had no gas left in the tank, but they let it ride for another year and got 30 cents on the dollar for everyone. That decision probably cost them either additional young pieces they could have paired with this core or more trade bait they could have turned into vets. Just an awful decision in hindsight.

 

Barker is a classic case of being brought along by a really good vet announcer Blair.

 

 

Blair had him predicting the German soccer league results a couple years ago to listen to him try to pronounce the names.

He is a humble guy and very entertaining.

[Omar]

The only thing more annoying than the Blue Jays playing poorly is all the narcissistic I-told-you-so cynics who now feel simultaneously vindicated yet still curiously indignant.

 

You're not special because you were a fence sitter preseason and the team decided to perform at their 10th percentile projection.

 

[Krylian]

He got hurt. lol at height of his trade value, blame Rogers.

 

This is true. Rogers wouldn't allow a rebuild. they were pandering to the casuals knowing they'd lap up the lies that the Jays were still a contender.

[BigCecil]

Barker's ripping JS, VGJ... lmao

 

Rekt!!!

 

Oh man; you folks need to listen to this fun.

 

Listened to that this morning on B & B. Made a lot of sense to me. Barker has gotten solid. He doesnt just rip the team but he does call it as he sees it.