General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2023)

[Spanky99]

Isn't he more extra starter/long-man depth though? I'd like to see them target more of a fireballer/swing and miss guy for when runners are on base and we need outs. Between Ryu/Manoah/Richards our post season long men are covered.

 

Yes, it would be depth/insurance, just responding to L54's comment on him and thought of him as well. I'm not going to try and pretend to know what this FO does, I don't expect much at the deadline, likely an arm and a complimentary bat.

[Laika]

A - Keep Jansen for 2024, then let him walk and spend the resource elsewhere. Sign an old veteran to help Kirk.

B - Extend Jansen. Jansen + Kirk tandem for the next 3+ years.

C - Extend Jansen. Trade Kirk. Sign an old veteran to help Jansen.

 

Eh?

[The Cats Ass]

Something has to happen in the OF though either through self improvement or roster changes

 

Can't have Varsho and Springer both underperform offensively for years while both getting full playing time

 

I think Springer will be fine. Since the middle of May he has a wRC+ of 124.

[Terminator]

Having them both made more sense when both of them were hitting like studs because you could just DH the other one. But with Kirk's bat taking a dip it doesn't make as much sense to tie up so many resources into them. I would say option A.

[The Cats Ass]

A - Keep Jansen for 2024, then let him walk and spend the resource elsewhere. Sign an old veteran to help Kirk.

B - Extend Jansen. Jansen + Kirk tandem for the next 3+ years.

C - Extend Jansen. Trade Kirk. Sign an old veteran to help Jansen.

 

Eh?

 

I vote B. Helps protect against injury.

[Brownie19]

I don't think Varsho ever catches again.

 

But as a fulltime CF he's fine. Even without improvement it's kind of like controlling prime Kiermaier. That type of hitter/fielder. D is probably a notch below, but offensive POTENTIAL might be higher. I dunno.

 

Ugh Varsho is tough to watch. Hit, I mean.

 

It would certainly seem that Varsho will become a CFer in the mold of a Harrison Bader and Trent Grisham. Obviously we'd all like to see more (and the minor league numbers give you hope), but if not, that's still a valuable piece in CF.

[L54]

The time to extend Jansen was last offseason. He has less incentive to now a year closer to free agency

 

Pumped to have the bowling ball and his pool noodle arm throwing balls that tail to right field leading the charge behind the plate

[Spanky99]

The time to extend Jansen was last offseason. He has less incentive to now a year closer to free agency

 

Pumped to have the bowling ball and his pool noodle arm throwing balls that tail to right field leading the charge behind the plate

 

Nah, you're overreacting bruh, we can still get him for about the same extension you proposed, I believe.

[John_Havok]

It's disappointing that Rogers is somehow grasping the purse strings right now.

 

I know it would have been a million to one chance to even land Ohtani if he was on the trade block... but there is every reason in the world aside from the on field product to do it. Imagine the thousands and thousands of Ohtani jerseys and related Jays gear that would fly off the shelves immediately across the entire country. He's a marketing dream for Rogers who really only care about the Jays as a marketing tool in the first place. Slapping his face on the marketing push for a the stretch drive would be incredible from that perspective. Ohtani would pay for himself and then some for the rest of the season.

[Spanky99]

A - Keep Jansen for 2024, then let him walk and spend the resource elsewhere. Sign an old veteran to help Kirk.

B - Extend Jansen. Jansen + Kirk tandem for the next 3+ years.

C - Extend Jansen. Trade Kirk. Sign an old veteran to help Jansen.

 

Eh?

 

Easy B.

[hanton]

It's disappointing that Rogers is somehow grasping the purse strings right now.

 

I know it would have been a million to one chance to even land Ohtani if he was on the trade block... but there is every reason in the world aside from the on field product to do it. Imagine the thousands and thousands of Ohtani jerseys and related Jays gear that would fly off the shelves immediately across the entire country. He's a marketing dream for Rogers who really only care about the Jays as a marketing tool in the first place. Slapping his face on the marketing push for a the stretch drive would be incredible from that perspective. Ohtani would pay for himself and then some for the rest of the season.

 

and not to mention the value - for years to come - of a deep postseason run

[John_Havok]

and not to mention the value - for years to come - of a deep postseason run

 

For sure, it would linger for the next 2-3 seasons easily.

[Sorrow]

Kirk has been a below league average bat for over a year (93 wRC+ in his last 550ish PA) with zero power. He's a good framer but has a s*** arm, can't run and if he's not a 115+ wRC+ bat I hesitate to give him more playing time. If the FO can move him for decent value I'd rather sign an older catcher to back up Jano.

 

Varsho is under performing this season but his xwOBA is basically the same it was in 2022. He's still going to project as a below average bat with elite D and great base running in CF. I'd be fine with that everyday in 2024 but he shouldn't be starting in LF.

[Spanky99]

Kirk has been a below league average bat for over a year (93 wRC+ in his last 550ish PA) with zero power. He's a good framer but has a s*** arm, can't run and if he's not a 115+ wRC+ bat I hesitate to give him more playing time. If the FO can move him for decent value I'd rather sign an older catcher to back up Jano.

 

Varsho is under performing this season but his xwOBA is basically the same it was in 2022. He's still going to project as a below average bat with elite D and great base running in CF. I'd be fine with that everyday in 2024 but he shouldn't be starting in LF.

 

Silly wabbit... we have 2 top 15 catchers in MLB, man. This isn't a problem. Varsho at CF, will be suffice moving forward as will our C's. Jano at 10 and Kirky at 14, a LF upgrade is obvious, we'll see what they do here shortly.

[John_Havok]

Kirk has been a below league average bat for over a year (93 wRC+ in his last 550ish PA) with zero power. He's a good framer but has a s*** arm, can't run and if he's not a 115+ wRC+ bat I hesitate to give him more playing time. If the FO can move him for decent value I'd rather sign an older catcher to back up Jano.

 

Varsho is under performing this season but his xwOBA is basically the same it was in 2022. He's still going to project as a below average bat with elite D and great base running in CF. I'd be fine with that everyday in 2024 but he shouldn't be starting in LF.

 

sadly, all Kirk really needs to do to be a useful asset around 2 WAR is have a wRC+ around 90. His defense more than makes up for his other deficiencies. Of course, a dip in defense makes him replacement level. On the flip side, an uptick in the bat pushes him back up to 3+ WAR, which is completely fine. A lot of the frustration around Kirk is the same as it is with Vlad. We've seen the upside and now he's not there just 1 season later.

[Terminator]

sadly, all Kirk really needs to do to be a useful asset around 2 WAR is have a wRC+ around 90. His defense more than makes up for his other deficiencies. Of course, a dip in defense makes him replacement level. On the flip side, an uptick in the bat pushes him back up to 3+ WAR, which is completely fine. A lot of the frustration around Kirk is the same as it is with Vlad. We've seen the upside and now he's not there just 1 season later.

 

Yeah he's very good at blocking balls too. So add it all up, even with a 93 wRC+ bat, and he's still a pretty good player.

[Spanky99]

Yeah he's very good at blocking balls too. So add it all up, even with a 93 wRC+ bat, and he's still a pretty good player.

 

Well, above replacement.

[Dick_Pole]

It's disappointing that Rogers is somehow grasping the purse strings right now.

 

I know it would have been a million to one chance to even land Ohtani if he was on the trade block... but there is every reason in the world aside from the on field product to do it. Imagine the thousands and thousands of Ohtani jerseys and related Jays gear that would fly off the shelves immediately across the entire country. He's a marketing dream for Rogers who really only care about the Jays as a marketing tool in the first place. Slapping his face on the marketing push for a the stretch drive would be incredible from that perspective. Ohtani would pay for himself and then some for the rest of the season.

 

???

 

I don't get this rant. First, the Angels are going to keep him after trading for Giolito so he isn't going to any team at the deadline. Second, the Jays would be outbid in terms of prospect capital if Ohtani was on the block. The only way they win the Ohtani sweepstakes is if they do something crazy like offer Bichette in the deal. Third, Ohtani as a FA next year likely stays on the West coast and if not, the Yankees would be the only team to court him eastward.

 

I don't see how any of this stuff is related to Rogers grasping the purse strings.

[Spanky99]

???

 

I don't get this rant. First, the Angels are going to keep him after trading for Giolito so he isn't going to any team at the deadline. Second, the Jays would be outbid in terms of prospect capital if Ohtani was on the block. The only way they win the Ohtani sweepstakes is if they do something crazy like offer Bichette in the deal. Third, Ohtani as a FA next year likely stays on the West coast and if not, the Yankees would be the only team to court him eastward.

 

I don't see how any of this stuff is related to Rogers grasping the purse strings.

 

Yer dumn

[John_Havok]

???

 

I don't get this rant. First, the Angels are going to keep him after trading for Giolito so he isn't going to any team at the deadline. Second, the Jays would be outbid in terms of prospect capital if Ohtani was on the block. The only way they win the Ohtani sweepstakes is if they do something crazy like offer Bichette in the deal. Third, Ohtani as a FA next year likely stays on the West coast and if not, the Yankees would be the only team to court him eastward.

 

I don't see how any of this stuff is related to Rogers grasping the purse strings.

 

Simple, why would they worry about spending a few more million this season, when it would easily result in bringing in far more than they spent? Whether they spend that money on a hypothetical Ohtani trade or two or three other far lesser guys. The team has clear needs that should be addressed.

 

I know trading for Ohtani, even if he was on the block wouldn’t happen, but why would ownership put out the feeling that they don’t want to add more money, when a postseason run would pay for itself and then some?

[Stangstag]

Simple, why would they worry about spending a few more million this season, when it would easily result in bringing in far more than they spent? Whether they spend that money on a hypothetical Ohtani trade or two or three other far lesser guys. The team has clear needs that should be addressed.

 

I know trading for Ohtani, even if he was on the block wouldn’t happen, but why would ownership put out the feeling that they don’t want to add more money, when a postseason run would pay for itself and then some?

 

Because a postseason run is not guaranteed. Could have no homefield advantage for rd1 and get bounced again like last year.

 

And they spent like 500 million on renovations this past offseason + next year.

 

Not hard to understand

[jaysblue]

It’s possible. But I’m not sure extending Jansen or bringing in another quality Catcher is a “must.”

 

Aren’t you constantly complaining about the bullpen, pitching depth, etc. anyway?

 

The team doesn’t have infinite resources. Two quality catchers is a luxury and Kirk should be good enough to hold the position down for the remainder of his contract. We’ve got Jansen for another year and that’s fine to keep him but any possible extension money could be used to fill other needs.

 

Kirk has been awful for over a year offensively let's not forget. This isn't just a two or three month slump this season only. He looks like he's in awful shape and not physically capable of catching 120-130 games over a full season. Huge concern moving forward.

 

Right now I would rather have Jansen catching during this short window of the Jays to contend. if Kirk starts hitting again, then even better. But would rather have that insurance of both Jansen/Kirk instead of solely relying on Kirk who's bat has been nonexistent since last June/July.

[John_Havok]

Because a postseason run is not guaranteed. Could have no homefield advantage for rd1 and get bounced again like last year.

 

And they spent like 500 million on renovations this past offseason + next year.

 

Not hard to understand

 

Okay. But nothing guaranteed in sports. Why spend up to and past the luxury tax threshold if there was no guarantee?

 

They’ve spent 500 million on the renovations and projected at 250+ for payroll after the taxes, but are now afraid to add a few million more because a post season run isn’t guaranteed?

 

Even taking on 5 million more is less than a drop in the bucket of what they’ve spent so far.

[jaysblue]

Simple, why would they worry about spending a few more million this season, when it would easily result in bringing in far more than they spent? Whether they spend that money on a hypothetical Ohtani trade or two or three other far lesser guys. The team has clear needs that should be addressed.

 

I know trading for Ohtani, even if he was on the block wouldn’t happen, but why would ownership put out the feeling that they don’t want to add more money, when a postseason run would pay for itself and then some?

 

Rogers and many other owners just care about making money. Shapiro has done his job as President filling up the ballpark every night, while even increasing ticket prices close to 3x the cost.

 

Whether the Jays make some trades at the deadline and get knocked in the WC round, or whether they stand pat and still get knocked out in the WC round, they're still selling seats and making money for next season.

[jaysblue]

Okay. But nothing guaranteed in sports. Why spend up to and past the luxury tax threshold if there was no guarantee?

 

They’ve spent 500 million on the renovations and projected at 250+ for payroll after the taxes, but are now afraid to add a few million more because a post season run isn’t guaranteed?

 

Even taking on 5 million more is less than a drop in the bucket of what they’ve spent so far.

 

Rogers also owns the dome, so for them, spending that 500 million on renovations benefits them long term as well.

 

In terms of the renovations, it's bringing more fans into the ballpark especially the casuals, they get to raise ticket prices, food and drink prices. Rogers is raking regardless if this team wins a World Series or not over the next decade. Shapiro did his job!

[metafour]

Kirk has been awful for over a year offensively let's not forget.

 

He's 19th among catchers with 200+ plate appearances this season at 89 wRC+. Let's not exaggerate. Even while disappointing he is a few hits away from being basically mid-tier at his position from an offensive standpoint.

[jaysblue]

He's 19th among catchers with 200+ plate appearances this season at 89 wRC+. Let's not exaggerate. Even while disappointing he is a few hits away from being basically mid-tier at his position from an offensive standpoint.

 

Yeah we can say that about any player. Add a couple more hits, home runs, and their numbers look a lot better lol. His power outage has gone on for over a year now. He's just become a slap/single hitter who isn't even hitting for a high average. He's still getting on-base at a decent clip and I've praised him on that even months ago when he was struggling. I just find it appalling that so many posters on here have a lovefest with Kirk and think he's a top tier player. He's been a huge disappointment this season with the bat. And to be honest I'm concerned moving forward.

 

Offensively, if Kirk can be like Gregg Zaun with the bat, would take that in a heartbeat. Right now Kirk is just looking like a .250/.330/.330 guy which isn't good enough.

[Stangstag]

Yeah we can say that about any player. Add a couple more hits, home runs, and their numbers look a lot better lol. His power outage has gone on for over a year now. He's just become a slap/single hitter who isn't even hitting for a high average. He's still getting on-base at a decent clip and I've praised him on that even months ago when he was struggling. I just find it appalling that so many posters on here have a lovefest with Kirk and think he's a top tier player. He's been a huge disappointment this season with the bat. And to be honest I'm concerned moving forward.

 

 

Offensively, if Kirk can be like Gregg Zaun with the bat, would take that in a heartbeat. Right now Kirk is just looking like a .250/.330/.330 guy which isn't good enough.

 

It’s mostly the projections I think. Same reason we have Vladdy knob jockeys. Kirk’s preseason projections were lofty and he hasn’t even come close.

 

He’ll probably have similar projections next year too, deserving or not

[Daniel Labude]

Springer hitting 5th

[Jonn]

Springer hitting 5th

 

Good about time.