General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2023)

[jaysblue]

Hahaha... I told him this earlier today, start being an Alpha and not a Beta... true talk. Poor Sil getting dunked on here lately.

 

Haha I'm Public Enemy No. 1 now on this message board for some reason because Brownie and Stangstag love raising their pitch forks when you're critical of this team. They're on Mike Wilner level x1000000000.

 

Regardless, I'm not a complainer or troll who bombards the GDT's with negative or glooming outlooks. I'm actually pretty rational and yes give this team props when deserved but also critical on some of their mistakes or failures. Overall this Blue Jays team can be playing better, there are no excuses. I'm sure if the Jays were in first place right now, Brownie and Stangstag would be on cloud nine and there wouldn't be as much to criticize, so everyone for the most part would get along haha.

[jaysblue]

Okay but if the team sucks and isn't good enough what will your excuse be THEN!?

 

WILL YOU APOLOGIZE TO THE LEVEL HEADED POSTERS WHO PLAYED BOTH SIDES AND NEVER HAD A STRONG OPINION AND WERE UNFAIRLY CRITIQUED AND THEN UNJUSTLY BANNED FOR TWENTY FOUR HOURS WITH NO EXPLANATION!?!?!?

 

Lmao look whose talking.

 

One day you were calling the Varsho trade a possible mistake, and the next day you were saying it's actually looking good. Talk about playing both sides.

[Stangstag]

I don't know what's got into you lately. I think you are salty about getting banned for 24 hours perhaps. Every single post since then is you disagreeing hard with strawmen.

 

But the answer to your question is simple, if we fail to capitalize on the remaining schedule then there is no excuse. It means we suck and the team isn't good enough.

 

Yep this

[Spanky99]

Haha I'm Public Enemy No. 1 now on this message board for some reason because Brownie and Stangstag love raising their pitch forks when you're critical of this team. They're on Mike Wilner level x1000000000.

 

Regardless, I'm not a complainer or troll who bombards the GDT's with negative or glooming outlooks. I'm actually pretty rational and yes give this team props when deserved but also critical on some of their mistakes or failures. Overall this Blue Jays team can be playing better, there are no excuses. I'm sure if the Jays were in first place right now, Brownie and Stangstag would be on cloud nine and there wouldn't be as much to criticize, so everyone for the most part would get along haha.

 

lol... I guess. I ain't sweating s*** yet, Birds legit are going through there hardest part of the Skeddy, Jays have it easier and we know as sure as f*** think we\re much better, to not to be in the dance, is a big fat fail.

[Spanky99]

Lmao look whose talking.

 

One day you were calling the Varsho trade a possible mistake, and the next day you were saying it's actually looking good. Talk about playing both sides.

 

You do this all the time? And yes I called Laika on that with tickets, lol.

[Stangstag]

Haha I'm Public Enemy No. 1 now on this message board for some reason because Brownie and Stangstag love raising their pitch forks when you're critical of this team. They're on Mike Wilner level x1000000000.

 

Regardless, I'm not a complainer or troll who bombards the GDT's with negative or glooming outlooks. I'm actually pretty rational and yes give this team props when deserved but also critical on some of their mistakes or failures. Overall this Blue Jays team can be playing better, there are no excuses. I'm sure if the Jays were in first place right now, Brownie and Stangstag would be on cloud nine and there wouldn't be as much to criticize, so everyone for the most part would get along haha.

 

Im not as much of a homer as you think I am but ok whatever.

 

If you’re gonna go around claiming Sportsnet was overhyping the team and they shouldn’t have been expecting them to actually be that great im going to call you out on your nonsense.

[Masterbather]

What does everybody think of the idea of slowly ramping up Pearson later in the season. Even if we can just get him to 5 innings.

 

I know people won't like messing with something that looks like it's working, but if we're not going to rebuild this thing and a championship is the goal, we can't just be content squeaking in to the playoffs just to get booted right out again.

 

This rotation is not good enough, we need another stud and there's virtually no chance we will land one via trade. Manoah's likely not the solution. It's easier to replace a bullpen piece than to land a stud starter. It's a move that could give us a higher potential ceiling at least.

[DigitalRock]

What’s wrong with Vladdy? He doesn’t look anything like the superstar he was projected to be.

[gruber92]

What does everybody think of the idea of slowly ramping up Pearson later in the season. Even if we can just get him to 5 innings.

 

I know people won't like messing with something that looks like it's working, but if we're not going to rebuild this thing and a championship is the goal, we can't just be content squeaking in to the playoffs just to get booted right out again.

 

This rotation is not good enough, we need another stud and there's virtually no chance we will land one via trade. Manoah's likely not the solution. It's easier to replace a bullpen piece than to land a stud starter. It's a move that could give us a higher potential ceiling at least.

 

Nah, leave him where he is. If he's stretched out, he'll only end up on the IL again. Let him just be a two inning monster, that has a lot of value also.

[gruber92]

lol... I guess. I ain't sweating s*** yet, Birds legit are going through there hardest part of the Skeddy, Jays have it easier and we know as sure as f*** think we\re much better, to not to be in the dance, is a big fat fail.

 

Yeah it's way too early to be frowning on the whole season. One thing is certain though, Atkins is not very good at his job.

[max silver]

Nah, leave him where he is. If he's stretched out, he'll only end up on the IL again. Let him just be a two inning monster, that has a lot of value also.

 

Stretching out Pearson is something to work on in the offseason/spring training if they decide to go that route. If he manages to escape the season injury free this is something I would give serious thought to as he has a starters arsenal of pitches. If they decide to keep him in the pen I'm perfectly cool with that as well as the reliever version of Nate Pearson is really damn good.

[connorp]

Haha I'm Public Enemy No. 1 now on this message board for some reason because Brownie and Stangstag love raising their pitch forks when you're critical of this team. They're on Mike Wilner level x1000000000.

 

Regardless, I'm not a complainer or troll who bombards the GDT's with negative or glooming outlooks. I'm actually pretty rational and yes give this team props when deserved but also critical on some of their mistakes or failures. Overall this Blue Jays team can be playing better, there are no excuses. I'm sure if the Jays were in first place right now, Brownie and Stangstag would be on cloud nine and there wouldn't be as much to criticize, so everyone for the most part would get along haha.

 

Public Enemy #2 maybe.

 

If you want to burn these guys, make an uneven trade with me for Gunnar in BORED. Not only will I regularly pimp him, but once my team is good there I won’t stfu and I’ll drive ppl insane. The long game

AG gifted him to you anyway really

[max silver]

Yeah it's way too early to be frowning on the whole season. One thing is certain though, Atkins is not very good at his job.

 

He's assembled a 90+ win team (although admittedly underperforming this season) that plays in baseball's hardest division. He can't be THAT bad at his job, surely you can admit that much at least.

[Spanky99]

Public Enemy #2 maybe.

 

If you want to burn these guys, make an uneven trade with me for Gunnar in BORED. Not only will I regularly pimp him, but once my team is good there I won’t stfu and I’ll drive ppl insane. The long game

AG gifted him to you anyway really

 

You're a weirdo.

[Laika]

You do this all the time? And yes I called Laika on that with tickets, lol.

 

I'm ashamed of you. You've known me long enough to get it.

[Laika]

What does everybody think of the idea of slowly ramping up Pearson later in the season. Even if we can just get him to 5 innings.

 

I know people won't like messing with something that looks like it's working, but if we're not going to rebuild this thing and a championship is the goal, we can't just be content squeaking in to the playoffs just to get booted right out again.

 

This rotation is not good enough, we need another stud and there's virtually no chance we will land one via trade. Manoah's likely not the solution. It's easier to replace a bullpen piece than to land a stud starter. It's a move that could give us a higher potential ceiling at least.

 

I think they plan on it. They've pushed him to 2 innings for half of his appearances in the last month. If they get some opportunities I think we might soon see them ask him for 3 innings here and there. Then maybe a 4 IP start. Sort of like what Boston did recently with Kutter Crawford.

 

Then at the end of this year they can go either way with him. He could be a starter the close the season, or back to the pen if that makes sense for the team. But in 2024 they'd try him as a SP one last time.

 

What the current state of SP depth in the organization they kind of have to do this. It might be a different story if there were multiple good SP prospects in AAA and AA.

Edited June 16, 2023 by Laika

[Spanky99]

I'm ashamed of you. You've known me long enough to get it.

 

lol

[Masterbather]

Stretching out Pearson is something to work on in the offseason/spring training if they decide to go that route. If he manages to escape the season injury free this is something I would give serious thought to as he has a starters arsenal of pitches. If they decide to keep him in the pen I'm perfectly cool with that as well as the reliever version of Nate Pearson is really damn good.

 

I prefer to have that patience as well but we have a window here and we have to do things to win now.

[Masterbather]

I think they plan on it. They've pushed him to 2 innings for half of his appearances in the last month. If they get some opportunities I think we might soon see them ask him for 3 innings here and there. Then maybe a 4 IP start. Sort of like what Boston did recently with Kutter Crawford.

 

Then at the end of this year they can go either way with him. He could be a starter the close the season, or back to the pen if that makes sense for the team. But in 2024 they'd try him as a SP one last time.

 

What the current state of SP depth in the organization they kind of have to do this. It might be a different story if there were multiple good SP prospects in AAA and AA.

 

Your last point is the key, we don't have many options when it comes to this rotation. Pushing him to around 75 pitches I don't think is an extreme ask especially given the potential benefits. We can't be nonchalant in the middle of a competitive window.

[Sorrow]

I'm wondering if Vladdy is nursing a wrist injury. I know he had wrist issues in 2022 and then missed time around May 6th-8th with another one and since then he's been horrendous, 86 wRC+ with a .101 ISO. Prior to that he had a 157 wRC+ and a .212 ISO. His BABIP is close enough, BB (IIRC) is the same but his K-Rate has spiked by 8% and his power has completely disappeared.

[Brownie19]

https://www.mlb.com/news/kevin-kiermaier-rates-among-all-time-best-outfield-defenders

 

Pretty awesome article on how great Kevin Kiermaier is defensively. Worth reading.

[Jonn]

Kiermaier has definitely been all we could have hoped for and more. And hes been banged up more than once. He's someone I would definitely explore an extension with if hes not moved at the deadline.

[xposbrad]

He's assembled a 90+ win team (although admittedly underperforming this season) that plays in baseball's hardest division. He can't be THAT bad at his job, surely you can admit that much at least.

 

Bal/TB are doing that with 1/3 the payroll. Both have better prospect pools than the Jays. When your payroll is 200m+ and in the top 1/4 of the league, you BETTER be at 90 wins. So now, let's look at prospects since that's going to gauge how well the Blue Jays manage their future considering they still have to dish out a couple of massive long term contracts. So let's go, where are the Jays at for top 100 prospects?

[M.E.]

I'm wondering if Vladdy is nursing a wrist injury. I know he had wrist issues in 2022 and then missed time around May 6th-8th with another one and since then he's been horrendous, 86 wRC+ with a .101 ISO. Prior to that he had a 157 wRC+ and a .212 ISO. His BABIP is close enough, BB (IIRC) is the same but his K-Rate has spiked by 8% and his power has completely disappeared.

 

That would make sense to me, however I think his exit velocity is still high so if there is an issue I would assume that would be impacted.

[Sorrow]

That would make sense to me, however I think his exit velocity is still high so if there is an issue I would assume that would be impacted.

 

I had thought that as well but as far as I can recall even when he was having wrist issues in July-October of last year he still hit the ball really hard.

[max silver]

I had thought that as well but as far as I can recall even when he was having wrist issues in July-October of last year he still hit the ball really hard.

 

I think Vlad's issues are more a result of poor swing decisions. Chris Black posted an excellent twitter thread in the offseason that concluded that Vlad largely hits the ball on the ground when he starts chasing out of the zone, particularly on low pitches. When he is more selective and forces pitchers into the zone he hits the ball in the air far more frequently and his number take off accordingly.

[Governator]

Bal/TB are doing that with 1/3 the payroll. Both have better prospect pools than the Jays. When your payroll is 200m+ and in the top 1/4 of the league, you BETTER be at 90 wins. So now, let's look at prospects since that's going to gauge how well the Blue Jays manage their future considering they still have to dish out a couple of massive long term contracts. So let's go, where are the Jays at for top 100 prospects?

 

 

I mean... If you want the Jays to be like the O's or Rays, you can kiss your massive long term contracts goodbye, live off of prospects and prepare to risk suffering for 5-8 year windows to be competitive for a couple of years at a time unless you get a bit lucky, and rinse repeat. You don't get to keep your stars longer than their window of opportunity, which in turn brings in the fans, merch and sales. TB can win every year and they'll still never sell out or have any money. The best player they've probably kept around 8-10 years was Longoria but that's not putting fans in the stands. They had to give up the David Prices, Crawfords, etc. at their peaks. We probably had more Price jerseys purchased here for half a year than they did 5 years.

[wilko]

I mean... If you want the Jays to be like the O's or Rays, you can kiss your massive long term contracts goodbye, live off of prospects and prepare to risk suffering for 5-8 year windows to be competitive for a couple of years at a time unless you get a bit lucky, and rinse repeat. You don't get to keep your stars longer than their window of opportunity, which in turn brings in the fans, merch and sales. TB can win every year and they'll still never sell out or have any money. The best player they've probably kept around 8-10 years was Longoria but that's not putting fans in the stands. They had to give up the David Prices, Crawfords, etc. at their peaks. We probably had more Price jerseys purchased here for half a year than they did 5 years.

 

I doubt many 85 year olds in Florida are buying jerseys. Maybe a few for warmth during the game.

[Governator]

I doubt many 85 year olds in Florida are buying jerseys. Maybe a few for warmth during the game.

 

Badum pssh

[xposbrad]

I mean... If you want the Jays to be like the O's or Rays, you can kiss your massive long term contracts goodbye, live off of prospects and prepare to risk suffering for 5-8 year windows to be competitive for a couple of years at a time unless you get a bit lucky, and rinse repeat. You don't get to keep your stars longer than their window of opportunity, which in turn brings in the fans, merch and sales. TB can win every year and they'll still never sell out or have any money. The best player they've probably kept around 8-10 years was Longoria but that's not putting fans in the stands. They had to give up the David Prices, Crawfords, etc. at their peaks. We probably had more Price jerseys purchased here for half a year than they did 5 years.

 

The bottom line is results. The jays are underperforming given their payroll. I was talking about prospects because every team needs them. The jays are in a worse position because they are probably maxed out for payroll, still need to sign long term guys and don't have the prospects to improve in certain areas.