Around Baseball 2023

[Terminator]

 

I respected his talent as a pitcher and he was also a great heel for the Jays. A guy I loved to hate.

 

As a Jays fan I can't help but bring up him and Bautista going at it. Bautista owned him pretty hard with 4 homers and a .368/.571/1.000 line in 19 ABs vs. O'Day.

 

This video has a lot of those highlights and the Orioles/O'Day action starts at about 1:30:

[Jimcanuck]

I don’t think there’s ever going to be an issue where Greinke gets on the ballot with 10 surefire HOFs at the same time for even a single ballot, let alone his entire cycle. He’ll get in easily within 2 or 3 if the idiotic BBWA writers don’t vote him in first time. Greinke is an extremely uncontroversial player off the field, quirky personality and all. His three closest (better) contemporaries are Kershaw, Max and Verlander and those guys will all get on their first ballot.

 

It's happened with others where guys that should have made HOF or at least come close didn't sniff it as votes went to others. Greinke is not a surefire HOF'er so it's going to depend on things lining up for him. That's all I'm saying.

[G-Snarls]

Red Sox got somwthibg for Barnes:

 

The Red Sox are trading right-handed reliever Matt Barnes to the Marlins, reports Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic. Left-handed reliever Richard Bleier is headed to Boston in return, according to Craig Mish of SportsGrid.

[Deadpool]

I respected his talent as a pitcher and he was also a great heel for the Jays. A guy I loved to hate.

 

As a Jays fan I can't help but bring up him and Bautista going at it. Bautista owned him pretty hard with 4 homers and a .368/.571/1.000 line in 19 ABs vs. O'Day.

 

This video has a lot of those highlights and the Orioles/O'Day action starts at about 1:30:

 

O'Day was a guy I HATED as a Jays fan, but would have no problem rooting for if he ever played for the Jays.

[Brownie19]

O'Day's finest strikeout. Right to the dick.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nD8vCz6LOjc

[Grant77]

Red Sox got somwthibg for Barnes:

 

The Red Sox are trading right-handed reliever Matt Barnes to the Marlins, reports Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic. Left-handed reliever Richard Bleier is headed to Boston in return, according to Craig Mish of SportsGrid.

 

Is Bleier that guy who had the same issue as Gausman and balked like 4 times in an inning?

[Grant77]

O'Day's finest strikeout. Right to the dick.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nD8vCz6LOjc

 

The scoreboard was a bit off. It was clearly a 2 ball count.

[Grant77]

Royals sign Ryan Goins

Mariners claim Tayler Saucedo

[Deadpool]

Royals sign Ryan Goins

Mariners claim Tayler Saucedo

 

When/why was Saucedo on waivers? I must have missed something...

[John_Havok]

When/why was Saucedo on waivers? I must have missed something...

 

Waived by Toronto in November along with Casey Lawrence. Lawrence went unclaimed, Suacedo was picked up by the Mets, who just tried to sneak him through waivers now, and he got claimed again.

[Pendleton]

[connorp]

 

He probably signed like a 12 year deal worth the same amount as 1yr for the average NBA player

[Stangstag]

He probably signed like a 12 year deal worth the same amount as 1yr for the average NBA player

 

Right…. This is baseball

[John_Havok]

Pretty much on par with Doc in terms of a comparable. Doc had more dominant seasons where he was the best in baseball, though Greinke was still one of the elite arms in the game and had longevity. Completely forgot about his gold gloves as well.

 

Not saying that Doc is, or should be the bar for the Hall, but his career was definitely more dominant.

 

Just using fWAR

 

Seasons at or above 5 FWAR: Greinke 3, Doc 8

Seasons at or above 6 fWAR: Greinke 1, Doc 6

Seasons at or above 7: Greinke 1, Doc 2

Seasons at or above 8: Greinke 1, Doc 1

 

Basically Greinke had 1 elite season and 2 great ones, Doc had 3 elite seasons and 5 great ones.

 

Greinke also had 3 seasons at 4.8 or 4.9, so one could probably give him some extra credit there.

 

Docs peak was basically 2001-2011, 62.9 fWAR over 11 seasons. Exactly 2300 IP, 319 starts and put up a 2.98 era, 3.08 fip, 3.16 xfip

Greinkes peak was 2008-2019, 54.2 fWAR over 12 seasons, 2416 IP, 376 starts 3.11 era, 3.19 fip, 3.34 xfip.

 

Greinke was pretty solid, #’s are pretty close. Halladay definitely better but not by a large margin.

 

Greinke easily has the longevity factor, he will have 7 seasons outside his peak, though none of them have been anything other than 2 fWAR or lower.

 

The way I see it, both have identical fWAR over their career as it stands right now Greinke 65.5 vs Doc 65.4. Doc did that in 15 seasons with the vast majority of it in that 11 year peak, it’s taken Greinke 19 seasons.

 

Halladay better, Greinke a tier below.

[jaysblue]

Not saying that Doc is, or should be the bar for the Hall, but his career was definitely more dominant.

 

Just using fWAR

 

Seasons at or above 5 FWAR: Greinke 3, Doc 8

Seasons at or above 6 fWAR: Greinke 1, Doc 6

Seasons at or above 7: Greinke 1, Doc 2

Seasons at or above 8: Greinke 1, Doc 1

 

Basically Greinke had 1 elite season and 2 great ones, Doc had 3 elite seasons and 5 great ones.

 

Greinke also had 3 seasons at 4.8 or 4.9, so one could probably give him some extra credit there.

 

Docs peak was basically 2001-2011, 62.9 fWAR over 11 seasons. Exactly 2300 IP, 319 starts and put up a 2.98 era, 3.08 fip, 3.16 xfip

Greinkes peak was 2008-2019, 54.2 fWAR over 12 seasons, 2416 IP, 376 starts 3.11 era, 3.19 fip, 3.34 xfip.

 

Greinke was pretty solid, #’s are pretty close. Halladay definitely better but not by a large margin.

 

Greinke easily has the longevity factor, he will have 7 seasons outside his peak, though none of them have been anything other than 2 fWAR or lower.

 

The way I see it, both have identical fWAR over their career as it stands right now Greinke 65.5 vs Doc 65.4. Doc did that in 15 seasons with the vast majority of it in that 11 year peak, it’s taken Greinke 19 seasons.

 

Halladay better, Greinke a tier below.

 

Yeah Halladay is the better arm, no denying that. Had a more dominant career and more dominant years than Greinke.

 

Also, Doc pitched in the AL East majority of his peak and then in the NL East, whereas Greinke pitched in the AL Central, NL Central and then NL West. Pitched in some favorable pitching parks during his peak.

[Laika]

Yes but Zack Greinke is not married to Brandy Halladay, that's worth something

[jaysblue]

Verlander, Scherzer and Kershaw make it on the first ballot. Greinke it will take a couple of years but I think he'll get in.

[John_Havok]

I think the more apt comparable to Greinke is Pettitte.

 

Much closer in career length, similar fWAR totals, very similar careers in that they had 1 elite season each, then a bunch of pretty good ones... I truly dont think Pettitte is a HoF guy, but very close. I probably put Greinke in the same tier as Pettitte.

[Laika]

I think the more apt comparable to Greinke is Pettitte.

 

Much closer in career length, similar fWAR totals, very similar careers in that they had 1 elite season each, then a bunch of pretty good ones... I truly dont think Pettitte is a HoF guy, but very close. I probably put Greinke in the same tier as Pettitte.

 

PED admission

3 time AS and no other hardware

 

vs.

 

Clean Zack

6 time AS

Cy Young

Gold Gloves

Silver Sluggers

[The Cats Ass]

He probably signed like a 12 year deal worth the same amount as 1yr for the average NBA player

 

Are you one of those people that feel WNBA players should get paid the same amount as NBA players?

[John_Havok]

PED admission

3 time AS and no other hardware

 

vs.

 

Clean Zack

6 time AS

Cy Young

Gold Gloves

Silver Sluggers

 

Sure, but lets not pretend gold gloves and silvera sluggers for pitchers matter... at all. Greinke was better than Pettitte definitely. I don't know that the margin of how much better he was than Pettitte is enough for me to vote in Greinke, but I bet he does get in.

[JaysAllMighty]

Are you one of those people that feel WNBA players should get paid the same amount as NBA players?

 

By his recent posts it appears to me that his wife took over this forum account.

[The Cats Ass]

By his recent posts it appears to me that his wife took over this forum account.

 

Maybe she got it in the divorce? Or maybe he thinks his posts get audited when he tries to order a new one?

[Jimcanuck]

i have the following in the same tier, and order them this way

 

grienke

sabathia

pettite

 

i think the first two get in, the 3rd no.... but they are all somewhat bubble guys

[Virgil_Hiltz]

Sure, but lets not pretend gold gloves and silvera sluggers for pitchers matter... at all. Greinke was better than Pettitte definitely. I don't know that the margin of how much better he was than Pettitte is enough for me to vote in Greinke, but I bet he does get in.

 

Pettitte has the NYY coefficient of 1.5 for HoF votes. Would he be in the discussion if he played for ummmm Minnesota? Maybe but not as widely discussed.

Granted, I could just be showing my Yankee hate!

[Laika]

Sure, but lets not pretend gold gloves and silvera sluggers for pitchers matter... at all. Greinke was better than Pettitte definitely. I don't know that the margin of how much better he was than Pettitte is enough for me to vote in Greinke, but I bet he does get in.

 

they do matter for some HoF voters

[wilko]

they do matter for some HoF voters

 

These guys care.

 

[John_Havok]

they do matter for some HoF voters

 

Probably the same idiots that voted for Dickey, Napoli and the other complete joke votes this year.

[connorp]

Are you one of those people that feel WNBA players should get paid the same amount as NBA players?

 

Come on, man. Really? I think it should be folded lol

[connorp]

Ortiz only kinda counts as PED. It’s murky

 

Petite is same as Clemens