Team Strength 2022 vs 2023

[Grant77]

With the benefit of hindsight, certainly 2023. Without hindsight, I think 2022. Berrios was a legit ace and Vlad Jr. should have been MVP. Everyone was expecting them to replicate those numbers.

[Jonn]

Team appears to be better overall. Starting rotation should be slightly improved. Very improved if Berrios and or Kikuchi can rebound.

 

Lineup I don’t expect to be much worse. The bench is definitely deeper overall.

 

The Bullpen there’s still some question marks for me at the back end. But depth wise and options they should be very solid.

 

Outfield Defense has taken a massive step. It’s almost night and day. I don’t even think they will be much worse offensively either. People forget Gurriel wasn’t very good last year and Kiermaier could probably replicate those numbers. Teo’s production can be mostly replaced by Varsho. A hopefully healthy Springer would also be massive piece.

 

Its all going to come down to staying healthy. Its a 90+ win in my opinion.

[jaysblue]

Also, have to ask how much have the Yankees and other AL East teams improved?

 

For the Yankees, Rodon is going to be a huge upgrade to their rotation if he's healthy, though their lineup IMO is pretty much the same or even a bit worse than it will be in 2022. Judge will have some regression. Same with their bullpen.

 

Baltimore didn't do much to add to their young core, but they should still be decent. Though don't see them winning 90-95 games.

 

Tampa Bay will always be Tampa Bay and can be a thorn in the side, though I see their floor as 90 wins.

 

Boston is going to be a last place team.

 

Overall, Yankees will still be the No. 1 threat, but if the Jays don't dig themselves in a huge hole early and play more consistently, they have a chance to fend off the Yankees for the division.

[Terminator]

One of the good things about the 2022 Trade Deadline was that all of the moves also benefited the 2023 team. Mitch White (he should be fine he got unlucky with the Jays), Bass, Zach Pop and Whit Merrifield are now on the team in addition to Varsho, Bassit and KK.

[wilko]

Connorp can I PLEASE get that mail order bride website? I’ve been asking but you keep ignoring me. Do I need to send you 20 bucks or something?

 

Btw do they have Thai or Filipino women on there? Or are they all middle eastern?

 

Thanks

 

If he sends you the site plz send to me.

[Jimcanuck]

Also, have to ask how much have the Yankees and other AL East teams improved?

 

For the Yankees, Rodon is going to be a huge upgrade to their rotation if he's healthy, though their lineup IMO is pretty much the same or even a bit worse than it will be in 2022. Judge will have some regression. Same with their bullpen.

 

Baltimore didn't do much to add to their young core, but they should still be decent. Though don't see them winning 90-95 games.

 

Tampa Bay will always be Tampa Bay and can be a thorn in the side, though I see their floor as 90 wins.

 

Boston is going to be a last place team.

 

Overall, Yankees will still be the No. 1 threat, but if the Jays don't dig themselves in a huge hole early and play more consistently, they have a chance to fend off the Yankees for the division.

 

I see the TB floor as closer to 80 wins.

[jaysblue]

I see the TB floor as closer to 80 wins.

 

Yeah a lot rides on the health and performance of their starting rotation and bullpen.

 

They won 86 games in 2022. I see them falling in that range again with 90 being the high end if a lot of things go right for them. Their lineup though is ugh.

[connorp]

Holy f***, this is so shallow. And ******** to boot. Desperation is a bad look.

 

Let’s get back to baseball and your dumb opinion of the day

[Jimcanuck]

Yeah a lot rides on the health and performance of their starting rotation and bullpen.

 

They won 86 games in 2022. I see them falling in that range again with 90 being the high end if a lot of things go right for them. Their lineup though is ugh.

 

But as usual they have a very strong farm, and will probably get contributions from unexpected sources. Curtis Mead is a bonafide ROY candidate. The guy's a natural hitter, s***** in the field though.

[jaysblue]

But as usual they have a very strong farm, and will probably get contributions from unexpected sources. Curtis Mead is a bonafide ROY candidate. The guy's a natural hitter, s***** in the field though.

 

Yeah always have to account for that with them. They always get contributions from unexpected sources and do have a solid farm they could always call upon.

 

They'll also have Tyler Glasnow healthy in ST, and if Shane McClanahan stays healthy, that's an amazing #1-2 punch. Rest of the rotation is solid as well. Eflin was a very nice signing considering what other arms got and he's only 28. Rasmussen and Springs as their No. 4 and 5 is very good. Plus they have some depth with Patino, Chirinos and Josh Fleming.

[Jays24]

Honestly, most teams in playoff contention will feel they have improved their roster in comparison to the year before. Even though we have improved slightly from last year overall... we have to compare ourselves against other teams we're in competition with.

 

We were already behind the Yanks/Astros... have we improved enough to reach or surpass their level? Objectively no but we all knows games aren't won on paper because we would have won our division last year if that was the case.

[connorp]

Honestly, most teams in playoff contention will feel they have improved their roster in comparison to the year before. Even though we have improved slightly from last year overall... we have to compare ourselves against other teams we're in competition with.

 

We were already behind the Yanks/Astros... have we improved enough to reach or surpass their level? Objectively no but we all knows games aren't won on paper because we would have won our division last year if that was the case.

 

Well, sarcasm aside, the consensus here seems to be just get to the playoffs and it’s a crapshoot from there. I think the Jays are a playoff team. So there’s that.

[Carlos Danger]

Honestly, most teams in playoff contention will feel they have improved their roster in comparison to the year before. Even though we have improved slightly from last year overall... we have to compare ourselves against other teams we're in competition with.

 

We were already behind the Yanks/Astros... have we improved enough to reach or surpass their level? Objectively no but we all knows games aren't won on paper because we would have won our division last year if that was the case.

 

I think you are right. The question was have the Blue Jays improved. The Jays improving can be a YES, but the team might very well not make a playoff spot. It is all relative to our division and the rest of the AL.

[Eat My Shatkins]

One of the good things about the 2022 Trade Deadline was that all of the moves also benefited the 2023 team. Mitch White (he should be fine he got unlucky with the Jays), Bass, Zach Pop and Whit Merrifield are now on the team in addition to Varsho, Bassit and KK.

 

Plus there is a chance Ryu comes back and makes an impact mid season, and Pearson/Merryweather are also wild cards although they are no longer counted on to make an impact it will just strictly be a bonus if they do.

[jaysblue]

Honestly, most teams in playoff contention will feel they have improved their roster in comparison to the year before. Even though we have improved slightly from last year overall... we have to compare ourselves against other teams we're in competition with.

 

We were already behind the Yanks/Astros... have we improved enough to reach or surpass their level? Objectively no but we all knows games aren't won on paper because we would have won our division last year if that was the case.

 

On paper, you can probably say the Jays are the second or third best team in the AL. Houston is still No. 1 obviously. Second is between the Yankees and Blue Jays on paper IMO. Though anything can happen once games are played and you can't count out teams like the Mariners, Guardians, Rays, and maybe the Orioles. Could always add a surprise team in there, maybe the Rangers if deGrom makes 30 starts.

 

I think the Jays improved on their 2022 roster. Better defensive team overall which will definitely have a greater impact over 162 games and in the Postseason. They have a deep bullpen, but still would like to see one more elite high K arm who can act as a bridge to Romano. As for their rotation, if everyone is healthy, they will be fine. But one or two injuries to a significant arm could hurt them. Otherwise, on paper this is a top 2 or 3 team in the AL.

[ValiantJaysFan]

Still need an SP. I understand waiting for Tiedemann but there's no guarantees there and if there's one injury to our rotation, which there will be eventually, we're right back where we were.

[Jonn]

I don’t think another Starter is coming. They seem locked in on Kikuchi.

[jaysblue]

Still need an SP. I understand waiting for Tiedemann but there's no guarantees there and if there's one injury to our rotation, which there will be eventually, we're right back where we were.

 

In a perfect world, another starter would be nice though not sure they want to spend $10-12 million and go over the luxury tax.

[jaysblue]

I don’t think another Starter is coming. They seem locked in on Kikuchi.

 

Kikuchi making $10 million in 2023 and 2024 plays a big role. If he was only making $3-4M I'm sure they would look at bringing in another arm.

[jaysblue]

Some starting pitchers who I think could be had on a MiLB deal or a very cheap incentive laden contract before ST:

 

- Joe Ross (won't be available till second half of 2023)

- Chris Archer (he's not really an upgrade over Kikuchi or White but at least provides some depth)

- Danny Duffy (would be a really nice fit IMO. Likely will get guaranteed money though probably nothing more than $5 million. Either can use him as a No. 5 or in the pen).

- Daniel Mengden (on a MiLB deal, would be nice for some depth in AAA)

- Josh Lindblom (probably can give him a ST invite but would have to have an opt out if he doesn't make the active roster after ST).

- Mark Appel (interesting former top prospect. If he signed a MiLB contract, would be nice to have him as insurance in Buffalo).

 

Otherwise, not many guys on this list who I think are upgrades over what the Jays already have in Kikuchi and White. Pretty much just for depth purposes. Maybe Danny Duffy if he's healthy could be a nice fit since you could have him compete for the No. 5 spot or have him as a swing man/extra lefty in the pen to start the season.

[Laika]

Duffy is a good call.

 

Other than him and Wacha (who will get Kluber money, maybe for a couple years) I don't see a SP who would be better than Kikuchi or White, in my opinion. There are a few guys like Cueto/Grienke/Davies/Miley/Bundy who would maybe be sideways moves - they would not improve the team as projected but would push everyone down and add depth I guess. But if you add a boring SP5 and push Kikuchi to the pen, who gets optioned? Or do you just bet on at least one injury before camp breaks?

 

I agree with you though that focusing on MiLB possibilities makes more sense. If you can get Lindblom, Pineda, or someone like that on a MiLB deal it does just as much as signing some bum for the SP5 slot and it helps with roster construction.

[G-Snarls]

Planning on SP 5 being Kikuchi (or White if Kikuchi sucks) is manageable if the other 4 stay healthy and if Berrios pitches well

 

Obviously, if Berrios sucks or is one of the top 4 gets injured it looks a lot less pretty real fast

[jaysblue]

Duffy is a good call.

 

Other than him and Wacha (who will get Kluber money, maybe for a couple years) I don't see a SP who would be better than Kikuchi or White, in my opinion. There are a few guys like Cueto/Grienke/Davies/Miley/Bundy who would maybe be sideways moves - they would not improve the team as projected but would push everyone down and add depth I guess. But if you add a boring SP5 and push Kikuchi to the pen, who gets optioned? Or do you just bet on at least one injury before camp breaks?

 

I agree with you though that focusing on MiLB possibilities makes more sense. If you can get Lindblom, Pineda, or someone like that on a MiLB deal it does just as much as signing some bum for the SP5 slot and it helps with roster construction.

 

Yeah worst case Duffy can act as a bulk inning reliever at the beginning of the season and you would be able to stretch him out as a starter if someone goes down or if Kikuchi sucks. Kind of like how the Jays used Carlos Villanueva in 2011/2012 and Marco Estrada in 2015. I don't see him getting more than $5 million guaranteed. Depends really on his preferences if he wants to sign somewhere as a guaranteed SP. At least with Duffy, he can provide value out of the pen but I'm sure he'll get 10-15 starts over a full season.

 

I don't think many of the No. 5 starters left are worth bringing in at around $10 million when they aren't really upgrades over who the Jays already have.

 

As ST approaches, would look more at some MiLB possibilities. Forgot about Pineda, though he's a great example.

[Carlos Danger]

Duffy is a good call.

 

Other than him and Wacha (who will get Kluber money, maybe for a couple years) I don't see a SP who would be better than Kikuchi or White, in my opinion. There are a few guys like Cueto/Grienke/Davies/Miley/Bundy who would maybe be sideways moves - they would not improve the team as projected but would push everyone down and add depth I guess. But if you add a boring SP5 and push Kikuchi to the pen, who gets optioned? Or do you just bet on at least one injury before camp breaks?

 

I agree with you though that focusing on MiLB possibilities makes more sense. If you can get Lindblom, Pineda, or someone like that on a MiLB deal it does just as much as signing some bum for the SP5 slot and it helps with roster construction.

 

I think Wade Miley would be an improvement over the K/W combo as well as Duffy. The other ones... meh...

[BCZ]

I don’t think another Starter is coming. They seem locked in on Kikuchi.

 

f*** off. Here's a list of a few SP the Jays could go after that would be better than Kikuchi (hint: it's literally every other starter):

 

Aaron Nola

Carlos Rodon

Justin Verlander

Sandy Alcantara

Kevin Gausman

Shohei Ohtani

Max Fried

Shane Bieber

Corbin Burnes

Framber Valdez

Dylan Cease

Max Scherzer

Zac Gallen

Yu Darvish

Logan Webb

Spencer Strider

Zack Wheeler

Alek Manoah

Jose Quintana

Martin Perez

Clayton Kershaw

Patrick Sandoval

Tyler Anderson

Luis Castillo

Alex Cobb

Blake Snell

Nestor Cortes

Triston McKenzie

Shane McClanahan

Brandon Woodruff

Joe Musgrove

Merrill Kelly

Gerrit Cole

Julio Urias

Logan Gilbert

Ross Stripling

Cristian Javier

Corey Kluber

George Kirby

Drew Rasmussen

Kyle Wright

Tarik Skubal

Brady Singer

Pablo Lopez

Adam Wainwright

Miles Mikolas

Jordan Montgomery

Chris Bassitt

Tony Gonsolin

Jeffrey Springs

Justin Steele

Kyle Freeland

Taijuan Walker

Johnny Cueto

Carlos Carrasco

Sonny Gray

Ranger Suarez

Reid Detmers

Jameson Taillon

Jacob deGrom

Cal Quantrill

Jesus Luzardo

Noah Syndergaard

Tyler Mahle

Joe Ryan

Mitch Keller

Luis Garcia

Freddy Peralta

Marcus Stroman

Frankie Montas

JT Brubaker

Lance Lynn

Zack Greinke

Nick Lodolo

Kyle Gibson

Jon Gray

Lucas Giolito

Rich Hill

Robbie Ray

Alex Wood

Dean Kremer

David Peterson

Hunter Greene

Michael Wacha

Charlie Morton

Jose Suarez

Nick Pivetta

Braxton Garrett

Jordan Lyles

Antonio Senzatela

Cole Irvin

Bailey Ober

German Marquez

Luis Severino

Adrian Sampson

Graham Ashcraft

Aaron Civale

Jose Urquidy

Drew Smyly

Jake Odorizzi

Brayan Bello

Mitch White

Jose Berrios

Austin Voth

Zach Eflin

Eric Lauer

Matt Manning

Michael Kopech

Michael Lorenzen

Sean Manaea

Dakota Hudson

Nathan Eovaldi

Adrian Houser

Austin Gomber

Walker Buehler

Spenser Watkins

Ian Anderson

Tyler Wells

MacKenzie Gore

Jose Urena

Zach Plesac

Dane Dunning

Roansy Contreras

Patrick Corbin

Andrew Heaney

Paul Blackburn

Jakob Junis

Trevor Rogers

Bailey Falter

Bryce Elder

Kyle Bradish

Daniel Lynch

Dylan Bundy

Eduardo Rodriguez

Domingo German

Ryan Feltner

Brad Keller

Kris Bubic

Andre Pallante

Zach Davies

Chad Kuhl

Chris Archer

Madison Bumgarner

Aaron Ashby

Chris Flexen

Kutter Crawford

Erick Fedde

Mike Clevinger

Josh Winder

JP Sears

Kyle Hendricks

James Kaprielian

Alex Faedo

Edward Cabrera

Konnor Pilkington

Taylor Hearn

Joan Adon

Beau Brieske

Keegan Thompson

Drew Hutchison

Marco Gonzales

Nick Martinez

Zach Thompson

Glenn Otto

Josh Winckowski

Jason Alexander

Bryse Wilson

Anibal Sanchez

Devin Smeltzer

Adrian Martinez

Tyler Alexander

Dallas Keuchel

Paolo Espino

Mike Minor

Bruce Zimmermann

Jon Heasley

Josiah Gray

[Eat My Shatkins]

Still wouldn't mind Cueto on a 1 year deal

[jaysblue]

f*** off. Here's a list of a few SP the Jays could go after that would be better than Kikuchi (hint: it's literally every other starter):

 

Aaron Nola

Carlos Rodon

Justin Verlander

Sandy Alcantara

Kevin Gausman

Shohei Ohtani

Max Fried

Shane Bieber

Corbin Burnes

Framber Valdez

Dylan Cease

Max Scherzer

Zac Gallen

Yu Darvish

Logan Webb

Spencer Strider

Zack Wheeler

Alek Manoah

Jose Quintana

Martin Perez

Clayton Kershaw

Patrick Sandoval

Tyler Anderson

Luis Castillo

Alex Cobb

Blake Snell

Nestor Cortes

Triston McKenzie

Shane McClanahan

Brandon Woodruff

Joe Musgrove

Merrill Kelly

Gerrit Cole

Julio Urias

Logan Gilbert

Ross Stripling

Cristian Javier

Corey Kluber

George Kirby

Drew Rasmussen

Kyle Wright

Tarik Skubal

Brady Singer

Pablo Lopez

Adam Wainwright

Miles Mikolas

Jordan Montgomery

Chris Bassitt

Tony Gonsolin

Jeffrey Springs

Justin Steele

Kyle Freeland

Taijuan Walker

Johnny Cueto

Carlos Carrasco

Sonny Gray

Ranger Suarez

Reid Detmers

Jameson Taillon

Jacob deGrom

Cal Quantrill

Jesus Luzardo

Noah Syndergaard

Tyler Mahle

Joe Ryan

Mitch Keller

Luis Garcia

Freddy Peralta

Marcus Stroman

Frankie Montas

JT Brubaker

Lance Lynn

Zack Greinke

Nick Lodolo

Kyle Gibson

Jon Gray

Lucas Giolito

Rich Hill

Robbie Ray

Alex Wood

Dean Kremer

David Peterson

Hunter Greene

Michael Wacha

Charlie Morton

Jose Suarez

Nick Pivetta

Braxton Garrett

Jordan Lyles

Antonio Senzatela

Cole Irvin

Bailey Ober

German Marquez

Luis Severino

Adrian Sampson

Graham Ashcraft

Aaron Civale

Jose Urquidy

Drew Smyly

Jake Odorizzi

Brayan Bello

Mitch White

Jose Berrios

Austin Voth

Zach Eflin

Eric Lauer

Matt Manning

Michael Kopech

Michael Lorenzen

Sean Manaea

Dakota Hudson

Nathan Eovaldi

Adrian Houser

Austin Gomber

Walker Buehler

Spenser Watkins

Ian Anderson

Tyler Wells

MacKenzie Gore

Jose Urena

Zach Plesac

Dane Dunning

Roansy Contreras

Patrick Corbin

Andrew Heaney

Paul Blackburn

Jakob Junis

Trevor Rogers

Bailey Falter

Bryce Elder

Kyle Bradish

Daniel Lynch

Dylan Bundy

Eduardo Rodriguez

Domingo German

Ryan Feltner

Brad Keller

Kris Bubic

Andre Pallante

Zach Davies

Chad Kuhl

Chris Archer

Madison Bumgarner

Aaron Ashby

Chris Flexen

Kutter Crawford

Erick Fedde

Mike Clevinger

Josh Winder

JP Sears

Kyle Hendricks

James Kaprielian

Alex Faedo

Edward Cabrera

Konnor Pilkington

Taylor Hearn

Joan Adon

Beau Brieske

Keegan Thompson

Drew Hutchison

Marco Gonzales

Nick Martinez

Zach Thompson

Glenn Otto

Josh Winckowski

Jason Alexander

Bryse Wilson

Anibal Sanchez

Devin Smeltzer

Adrian Martinez

Tyler Alexander

Dallas Keuchel

Paolo Espino

Mike Minor

Bruce Zimmermann

Jon Heasley

Josiah Gray

 

Thanks for the list!

[jaysblue]

Still wouldn't mind Cueto on a 1 year deal

 

I wouldn't mind him either but he'll likely cost Kluber money and is he much of an upgrade or does he just push Kikuchi/White back a spot? He has to be guaranteed to put together a 2.4 WAR season again for him to be an upgrade. Any regression likely doesn't make him any better than Mitch White or Kikuchi. Plus Jays likely would have to drop or trade someone from the roster.

 

Maybe the Jays could sign an arm like Pineda, Lindblom etc. to a MiLB deal before ST starts and let them fight for the No. 5 spot in ST or keep them for depth in Buffalo.

 

The more I think about it, Danny Duffy makes the perfect sense. Likely gets a deal around $4-5 million with incentives. He can be useful out of the bullpen as an extra lefty or long man if he isn't in the rotation and you can always stretch him out as a starter if the situation during the season arises.

[Dick_Pole]

Just remembered that the Jays will be facing AL East opponents six less times this year. That should be good for another 2-3 more wins than if facing the 2022 schedule.

[Dick_Pole]

Imagine multiple pages dedicated to an argument of hitting versus defense when the last game the Jays played they scored 9 runs, lost and blew an 8-1 lead with the final blow being a bloop defensive gaffe.