Poll: Which catcher would you move in the off-season?

[wilko]

Sure but the Cards would not do that

 

They'd definitely ask for Moreno and maybe be willing to do Kirk. Gross.

 

Are you fat shaming Kirk?

[Brownie19]

Sure but the Cards would not do that

 

They'd definitely ask for Moreno and maybe be willing to do Kirk. Gross.

 

I guess. I'm just saying I like the idea of Carlson for the right price. Young, switch hitting CFer with a great pedigree and 4 years of control? Sign me up. I have to think Kirk has more value than Carlson at this point. If you could sweeten the pot and use Jansen as the prime asset in the deal, that would be really solid.

[Olerud363]

I guess. I'm just saying I like the idea of Carlson for the right price. Young, switch hitting CFer with a great pedigree and 4 years of control? Sign me up. I have to think Kirk has more value than Carlson at this point. If you could sweeten the pot and use Jansen as the prime asset in the deal, that would be really solid.

 

I asked before what Kirk's value would be if he looked like Buster Posey.

 

Someone said 'That's a stupid question moron, it's like asking what my girlfriends value would be if she was 120 not 300"

 

Well not a stupid question depending what someone wants your girlfriend for. Like if they want to hire her as a chef it might not be a stupid question. Maybe she is so fat she'll eat all the food and can't fit into the walk in freezer to get the frozen tomato sauce. Or maybe she can, and it would be dumb not to value her highly as chef.

 

If Kirk looked like Buster Posey or Joe Mauer everyone would want Julio Rodriquez for him as they'd assume batting titles and the hall of fame is coming.

 

We don't assume that because he is obese and we assume he'll be tired, may have peaked at 23 and in the future will hit .270 with 11 homers and a 2.5 WAR. Well that's kind of what it sounds like reading this thread, and the way people value the catchers.

[Terminator]

Cannot wait for Danny Jansen to get traded this offseason. All the Kirk haters on this board can kiss my ass.

[wilko]

Cannot wait for Danny Jansen to get traded this offseason. All the Kirk haters on this board can kiss my ass.

 

You want the latest guest of Gabbin' with Gibby to get traded!?

[Solaxys]

idc who goes - can we get Zac Gallen from DBacks tho? They need a catcher.

[wilko]

idc who goes - can we get Zac Gallen from DBacks tho? They need a catcher.

 

Would take a bit to get him. They had to trade Jizz Chisholm.

[Brownie19]

idc who goes - can we get Zac Gallen from DBacks tho? They need a catcher.

 

They are also really close to being a very solid team. They are loaded with great young prospects. Not sure why they would trade their 27 year old ace who's under control for 3 more years.

[Jonn]

Cannot wait for Danny Jansen to get traded this offseason. All the Kirk haters on this board can kiss my ass.

 

Danny hit 15 Homeruns in 215 AB’s

 

Kirk hit 14 in 470.

 

You better get a really good f***ing return.

[Krylian]

Cannot wait for Danny Jansen to get traded this offseason. All the Kirk haters on this board can kiss my ass.

 

I don't get the impression that there are a lot of Kirk haters. I do get the feeling that people are concerned about his long term dependability. I think it's a fair concern.

[Laika]

Would take a bit to get him. They had to trade Jizz Chisholm.

 

*Jizz Chazholm

[Laika]

I don't get the impression that there are a lot of Kirk haters. I do get the feeling that people are concerned about his long term dependability. I think it's a fair concern.

 

reads like something an Alejandro Kirk hater would say

[Terminator]

reads like something an Alejandro Kirk hater would say

 

Exactly

[Solaxys]

The only real thing I have against trading Moreno is that he is (considering his poptime/arm accuracy) perhaps the best CS% catcher we have.

Steal-game very important next year and having someone who can reliably throw out runners would be huge.

 

The other two - someone has to go - we need that damn DH spot to be leveraged for a good LHB.

[Stangstag]

I don't get the impression that there are a lot of Kirk haters. I do get the feeling that people are concerned about his long term dependability. I think it's a fair concern.

 

He also likely has the highest trade value. It doesn’t take a genius to understand why people would be in favor of trading him

[Stangstag]

The only real thing I have against trading Moreno is that he is (considering his poptime/arm accuracy) perhaps the best CS% catcher we have.

Steal-game very important next year and having someone who can reliably throw out runners would be huge.

 

The other two - someone has to go - we need that damn DH spot to be leveraged for a good LHB.

 

Yes exactly. Kirk is just not a great fit on the team with the way the roster is currently constructed. He’s like 50% DH, but we already have 3-4 guys rotating through the DH spot with Springer/Teo/Gurriel/Vladdy.

[Laika]

I think Moreno's value is > or = Kirk

 

even if on paper Kirk should be worth more

 

because the game is not played on paper. it is played by human bodies. and kirk's is revolting.

[wilko]

I think Moreno's value is > or = Kirk

 

even if on paper Kirk should be worth more

 

because the game is not played on paper. it is played by human bodies. and kirk's is revolting.

 

[Stangstag]

I think Moreno's value is > or = Kirk

 

even if on paper Kirk should be worth more

 

because the game is not played on paper. it is played by human bodies. and kirk's is revolting.

 

If you can get more value out of a Moreno trade, then you go ahead and do it. Jansen/Kirk is still a great combo and veteran catchers are very easy to sign via free agency if needed once/if Jansen leaves. Vet catcher + Kirk still works. This team/lineup can survive with a defense-first catcher if needed.

[Terminator]

Trading Jansen makes the most sense and anyone here who doesn't see that is just plain DUMN.

 

-Jansen is the most expensive and the team is getting pricey. But he's not so expensive that it would prohibit any teams from trading for him.

-He has the least amount of control left and members of the the core are getting closer to FA. If we trade him and he balls out for two years it's not the end of the world when we have more than capable replacements. Trading 4 years of Kirk or 6 years of the #1 prospect in baseball could definitely sting. But he's also not a rental, again making him an attractive option for the acquiring team.

-He's also the most injury prone, but he's coming off a pretty damn good year despite the injuries and finished the season healthy. Perfect time to sell high on him.

 

The only reasons I've seen for trading Kirk over Jansen are DUMN. All anyone says is (1) Kirk is fat and (2) Kirk has more trade value. 1 is just stupid because Kirk is under control through his age 27 season. His fat butt will be just fine until then and he's proven to be more durable than Jansen has anyway. 2 is DUMN because you're just admitting that Kirk is the better asset than Jansen! It's not going to kill the team to keep the better asset you dipshits. We need a couple of backend starters and a reliever and possibly a left handed bat. That's it.

[Terminator]

Yes exactly. Kirk is just not a great fit on the team with the way the roster is currently constructed. He’s like 50% DH, but we already have 3-4 guys rotating through the DH spot with Springer/Teo/Gurriel/Vladdy.

 

LOL. Kirk is an elite framer and overall good defensive C. The fact that his bat is so damn good that he can also serve as a primary DH for a team stacked at Catcher isn't the knock on Kirk that you think it is.

[Brownie19]

Trading Jansen makes the most sense and anyone here who doesn't see that is just plain DUMN.

 

-Jansen is the most expensive and the team is getting pricey. But he's not so expensive that it would prohibit any teams from trading for him.

-He has the least amount of control left and members of the the core are getting closer to FA. If we trade him and he balls out for two years it's not the end of the world when we have more than capable replacements. Trading 4 years of Kirk or 6 years of the #1 prospect in baseball could definitely sting. But he's also not a rental, again making him an attractive option for the acquiring team.

-He's also the most injury prone, but he's coming off a pretty damn good year despite the injuries and finished the season healthy. Perfect time to sell high on him.

 

The only reasons I've seen for trading Kirk over Jansen are DUMN. All anyone says is (1) Kirk is fat and (2) Kirk has more trade value. 1 is just stupid because Kirk is under control through his age 27 season. His fat butt will be just fine until then and he's proven to be more durable than Jansen has anyway. 2 is DUMN because you're just admitting that Kirk is the better asset than Jansen! It's not going to kill the team to keep the better asset you dipshits. We need a couple of backend starters and a reliever and possibly a left handed bat. That's it.

 

I would disagree with that. We need a long term CFer. If Kirk is worth more and he is able to land you a young stud CFer (but Jansen won't) then that's something you'd have to consider.

[Brownie19]

Yes exactly. Kirk is just not a great fit on the team with the way the roster is currently constructed. He’s like 50% DH, but we already have 3-4 guys rotating through the DH spot with Springer/Teo/Gurriel/Vladdy.

 

I hope that Jansen and Moreno both hit enough that we want them both to use up a decent % of the DH role. If not, then we should probably trade them instead.

[Terminator]

I would disagree with that. We need a long term CFer. If Kirk is worth more and he is able to land you a young stud CFer (but Jansen won't) then that's something you'd have to consider.

 

Hard disagree with this sentiment. George Springer was 5th in WAR among CFers this year. He's fine there next year too but a good backup wouldn't be a bad idea. If something falls into our laps I'd consider it but it is not a major need nor does it rank very high on the list of our offseason priorities.

[wilko]

Hard disagree with this sentiment. George Springer was 5th in WAR among CFers this year. He's fine there next year too but a good backup wouldn't be a bad idea. If something falls into our laps I'd consider it but it is not a major need nor does it rank very high on the list of our offseason priorities.

 

[Jimcanuck]

Trading Jansen makes the most sense and anyone here who doesn't see that is just plain DUMN.

 

-Jansen is the most expensive and the team is getting pricey. But he's not so expensive that it would prohibit any teams from trading for him.

-He has the least amount of control left and members of the the core are getting closer to FA. If we trade him and he balls out for two years it's not the end of the world when we have more than capable replacements. Trading 4 years of Kirk or 6 years of the #1 prospect in baseball could definitely sting. But he's also not a rental, again making him an attractive option for the acquiring team.

-He's also the most injury prone, but he's coming off a pretty damn good year despite the injuries and finished the season healthy. Perfect time to sell high on him.

 

The only reasons I've seen for trading Kirk over Jansen are DUMN. All anyone says is (1) Kirk is fat and (2) Kirk has more trade value. 1 is just stupid because Kirk is under control through his age 27 season. His fat butt will be just fine until then and he's proven to be more durable than Jansen has anyway. 2 is DUMN because you're just admitting that Kirk is the better asset than Jansen! It's not going to kill the team to keep the better asset you dipshits. We need a couple of backend starters and a reliever and possibly a left handed bat. That's it.

 

Jansen wouldn't be that expensive to extend. If Jansen agrees to a reasonable extension, Kirk is most likely to be traded. It has nothing to do with Kirk having more trade value, but because his current trade value is close to (or actually exceeding) his true value, compared to Jansen and Moreno. i.e., sell high vs. sell low.

 

I honestly don't give a f*** which one they trade, all are MLB starting calibre catchers. I do trust in Shatkins to make the right move.

[Terminator]

 

I did say that a good backup would be a good idea. But frankly we might have that guy in Whit Merrifield anyway.

 

And Rocket's bizarre usage was mostly a product of him playing in the corners (685.2 innings) vs. centerfield (249.2) but hopefully he's non-tendered and Whit replaces him anyway.

[Brownie19]

Hard disagree with this sentiment. George Springer was 5th in WAR among CFers this year. He's fine there next year too but a good backup wouldn't be a bad idea. If something falls into our laps I'd consider it but it is not a major need nor does it rank very high on the list of our offseason priorities.

 

That's all fair. Is there an argument that by moving him to RF (and letting him DH more) that we could actually get more production out of him? Would that move give him a high probability of staying healthier and thus in the lineup more? Will his defense continue to decline to the point he's a liability in CF?

 

Perhaps it's not a dire need in 2023 and perhaps that should be the only focus because of the impending FA's after that - but I have a hard time not looking past that as I want a sustainable winner. We don't really have any obvious candidates in the minors who we can rely on, nor a plethora of top prospect depth we can use to trade for a CFer. The catcher position seemingly gives us our best chance to fill a hole on this team. I don't think you want to use one of our catchers to add a back end starter, reliever or a lefty bat (who isn't an impact starter). IMO, we're moving a catcher to add an impact core player to this team and for me - CF seems like a great target for that player (with a young, top of the rotation type starter being the other).

[Jimcanuck]

That's all fair. Is there an argument that by moving him to RF (and letting him DH more) that we could actually get more production out of him? Would that move give him a high probability of staying healthier and thus in the lineup more? Will his defense continue to decline to the point he's a liability in CF?

 

Perhaps it's not a dire need in 2023 and perhaps that should be the only focus because of the impending FA's after that - but I have a hard time not looking past that as I want a sustainable winner. We don't really have any obvious candidates in the minors who we can rely on, nor a plethora of top prospect depth we can use to trade for a CFer. The catcher position seemingly gives us our best chance to fill a hole on this team. I don't think you want to use one of our catchers to add a back end starter, reliever or a lefty bat (who isn't an impact starter). IMO, we're moving a catcher to add an impact core player to this team and for me - CF seems like a great target for that player (with a young, top of the rotation type starter being the other).

 

Agree 100%. CF has to be a priority. I don't think its a case of choosing SP/RP over CF either. If a fair trade for SP/RP improvements isn't available (and Jays have to rely on in-house prospects and depth signings), a fair trade for a young CF with elite defense is a great alternative.

[Solaxys]

tangent but https Lee Jung Ho might be the guy we need to man the OF; LF lead-off OF with excellent approach - even with regression to MLB from Korean players, he would still be an impact bat.

 

Scouting report: https://prospectsworldwide.com/2020/06/08/scouting-report-kiwoom-heroes-of-lee-jung-hoo-1/

 

Might be posted this year though most are saying posted next year

 

Being compared to Nick Markakis