Would you fire Atkins

[BTS]

Well, would you?

[Omar]

Tough day to put this poll up. Like asking someone how they enjoyed dinner last night after getting their stomach pumped for food poisoning.

 

edit: I vote to keep him. Yeah he blew chunks at the trade deadline, but he likely did what could given the resources he gave up. He improved the pen. Brought in Chapman. The only thing that sticks out to me is the perrenial bull pen issues.

Edited October 9, 2022 by Omar

[jaysblue]

Tough call.

 

After watching last night's dumpster fire, I would vote an easy yes, especially if it was the FO making those in-game calls pulling Gausman, bullpen management and substituting Tapia in for Merrifield etc. He's the one who hired and spent money on that department doing the analytics and it blew up in their face! If the FO was making the calls on the field yesterday, then there is no excuse! You need to go back to the fundamentals and assess the game situation at the time. In at 8-1 game, Gausman still needs to be pitching at 94 or 95 pitches.

 

In my opinion, and I've said this numerous times throughout the season, he failed to address areas on the end of the roster that needed upgrades such as the bullpen and roster depth. I don't really understand it. Like you have a solid young core, you made some big moves signing Gausman and bringing in Chapman last offseason. He never complimented those moves and this talented roster which is the frustrating part. Go out and add quality bullpen arms that you can rely heavily on in a close game. Heck these guys couldn't even close a 7 run lead from the 6th inning on. Go out and improve your roster depth by adding quality players who when are playing won't hurt your team more than help. We've seen two disappointing years in a row where the Blue Jays missed the Postseason by one game and where they got beat 2-0 after hosting the Wildcard series at home. It's inexcusable given the core and talent this team has. It's gone to waste because this FO seems too cheap to add an elite reliever or two or to actually add some solid roster depth. You can't neglect the end of a roster, and they've done that the past two years.

 

Is it Atkins fault that Vladdy, Bo, Berrios underachieved this season? No, blame has to be put on the players, not him. Is it Atkins fault that Montoya and Schnieder didn't have an elite pen to work with all season or a deep enough bench when injuries occurred and had to give close to 500 PA to Tapia? Yes.

[BTS]

Tough call.

 

After watching last night's dumpster fire, I would vote an easy yes, especially if it was the FO making those in-game calls pulling Gausman, bullpen management and substituting Tapia in for Merrifield etc.

 

In my opinion, and I've said this numerous times throughout the season, he failed to address areas on the end of the roster that needed upgrades such as the bullpen and roster depth. I don't really understand it. Like you have a solid young core, you made some big moves signing Gausman and bringing in Chapman last offseason. He never complimented those moves and this talented roster which is the frustrating part. Go out and add quality bullpen arms that you can rely heavily on in a close game. Heck these guys couldn't even close a 7 run lead from the 6th inning on. Go out and improve your roster depth by adding quality players who when are playing won't hurt your team more than help. We've seen two disappointing years in a row where the Blue Jays missed the Postseason by one game and where they got beat 2-0 after hosting the Wildcard series at home. It's inexcusable given the core and talent this team has. It's gone to waste because this FO seems too cheap to add an elite reliever or two or to actually add some solid roster depth.

 

Is it Atkins fault that Vladdy, Bo, Berrios underachieved this season? No, blame has to be put on the players, not him. Is it Atkins fault that Montoya and Schnieder didn't have an elite pen to work wAktith all season or a deep enough bench when injuries occurred? Yes.

 

Atkins just feels really replaceable. He's obviously built a pretty good team, and he's made some great acquisitions. But he's also been far from perfect at spending the considerable resources at his disposal, and the team feels a bit like they've opened a contention window instead of something completely sustainable. I think Shapiro could defend firing him or keeping him.

[BigCecil]

Too hot right now. Temper says yes, but feel like he needs another year or two. Shorter leash. He has played his fire the manager card already.

 

I'm a Shapiro fan for sure. Stays where he is.

 

Agree with BTS. Not seeing anything other than a window team yet. No sustainable winner like ATL and others are putting together. Lots of top picks went for Berrios and Chappy and aside from maybe Moreno and Ricky the farm is not overly inspiring.

[BlueJays]

Atkins? Yes. Shapiro? No. I doubt they will fire him. They will probably give him a year or two and see how the team will be before doing anything. 2023 would be crucial. I think.

[Skinny Wolf]

You can't blame the GM for underachieving players. The whole bullpen can't finish the job with 8-1 lead.

[Stangstag]

Atkins? Yes. Shapiro? No. I doubt they will fire him. They will probably give him a year or two and see how the team will be before doing anything. 2023 would be crucial. I think.

 

Yeah Shapiro is great, we should hold onto him as long as possible.

 

Atkins is easily replaceable IMO. Maybe give him one more year but I wouldn’t be mad to see him gone.

 

It will be interesting to see what decision they make with Schneider too. I think if Schneids is fired then clearly he went off the book in that wildcard game.

[BTS]

Yeah Shapiro is great, we should hold onto him as long as possible.

 

Atkins is easily replaceable IMO. Maybe give him one more year but I wouldn’t be mad to see him gone.

 

It will be interesting to see what decision they make with Schneider too. I think if Schneids is fired then clearly he went off the book in that wildcard game.

 

Yeah, Shapiro is basically irreplaceable. Consummate professional who has a deep understanding of the game, and has squeezed a ton of payroll out of Rogers. I think there's basically no chance you'd find another President as competent as him.

[TheHurl]

183 wins over 2 years (first time in 30 years 4th time in team history) wiped out by 2 losses (one filled with bad luck). Congrats BJMB you just became the Cleveland fanbase.

[jaysguy44]

Personally, I'd rather fire Schneider... They can both go though.

[TheHurl]

From everything I hear Shapiro has virtually zero to to with baseball decisions...to think that he could throw one of you in there and run the team is as stupid and delusional as the rest of your knee jerk reactions. If I wasn't collecting ad revenue from this board I would just shut it down

[BTS]

From everything I hear Shapiro has virtually zero to to with baseball decisions...to think that he could throw one of you in there and run the team is as stupid and delusional as the rest of your knee jerk reactions. If I wasn't collecting ad revenue from this board I would just shut it down

 

There are probably like 3 Ross Atkinses in Houston's front office alone looking for a promotion to GM.

[Grant77]

I would not fire Atkins or even Schneider for that matter, but serious changes need to be made to the team's leadership group.

 

Atkins has done a great job of collecting talent, but it's blatantly obvious that many of these players simply don't care about winning. The effort level and lack of focus was vomit inducing.

 

For me, Atkins gets a chance to identify and rid the team of these problem players and to add the correct pieces to shake up the clubhouse. If he rolls back the same group and this happens again then I'm on board with firing him.

[DigitalRock]

I’d keep him for next year but it’s make or break next season

[TheHurl]

There are probably like 3 Ross Atkinses in Houston's front office alone looking for a promotion to GM.

 

Is this a rally cry for Craig Biggio? Let's assume of of the three is Andrew Ball. I agree that he is a guy that deserves to get hired somewhere, I met him in Tampa and from one interaction, I'd say he's a really smart guy. However the Angels showed no improvement during his time there.

 

My point is that you have a GM who has put together a team with back to back 90 win teams and you want to fire him and replace him with someone who has never been a GM. I think the question would be, if you asked the Houston Astros front office (or any advanced front office) how much they would change about the Blue Jays Last year he lost his number 1 pitcher and won 90. This year their number 1 pitcher pitched like a number 5. As much as the pitching depth isn't quite there he has built some trading depth and he really doesn't have a roster crunch still. This is building a sustainable playoff team. Playoff success is not the mark of a GM IMO.

[Masterbather]

After the damage that the bullpen did to the team last year it's inexcusable to return with a mediocre to decent pen at best. The lack of depth at starting pitching was also something that everybody was aware of and not properly addressed.

 

You only have so many years with this core and you blew another one by not addressing things that everybody knew you needed to address.

 

I don't think that's excusable, I vote to fire him.

[Spanky99]

Well, would you?

 

Meh, wouldn't worry either way. But he won't be fired, he used the safety net on canning Montoyo.

[Spanky99]

183 wins over 2 years (first time in 30 years 4th time in team history) wiped out by 2 losses (one filled with bad luck). Congrats BJMB you just became the Cleveland fanbase.

 

Hahaha.

[Spanky99]

From everything I hear Shapiro has virtually zero to to with baseball decisions...to think that he could throw one of you in there and run the team is as stupid and delusional as the rest of your knee jerk reactions. If I wasn't collecting ad revenue from this board I would just shut it down

 

Wow!

[Carlos Danger]

I would put Ross on a Performance Improvement Plan (PIP).With one more year to show improvement.

 

There are strengths and weaknesses of the Atkins/Shapiro duo. However, I see no improvement on the weakness sides in a lot of respects.

 

Manoha is the only home grown stud pitcher since the 2015 off season. Romano was a hold over from the AA regime and they ended up rule 5ing the dude.

 

Most of the playoff teams have homegrown guys in their pen and high leverage roles. The Jays do not apart from Romano and he is an AA product. Mayza I don't consider a stud and he is an AA product also.

 

Depth- I find it egregious the lack of depth planning or depth itself for the Jays. It was plain as day to me that we did not have the SP depth going into this season. Ruy was always hurt, a year older and a high probability he would get hurt or suck. Kickuchi had half a season of decent pitching and it was the first half of 2021 not the second half. The second half should have been an indicator not an outlier. Right there you have 2/3 of your rotation questionable. An injury to either Gausman, Manoah or Berrios and you have only Stripling as a reasonable back up and no one thought he would exceed expectations. Even with 5 awesome SPs with no injury history, you need depth beyond one SP.

 

Our lack of SP depth and s***** outing from our SPs almost cost us big time and def why we were a WC and not division champs.

 

The BP- We were a single point of failure from being really screwed if we lost Romano for any amount of time or he went into a serious slump. Our eggs were all in one basket and that is a horrible strategy.

 

The trade deadline was risk averse, I blame that on Shapiro and goes back to him never winning a WS.

 

The trade deadline was insufficient to address what our needs were and when not considered in a vacuum. Our competition improved more significantly then we did. The game 1 loss was example A.

 

Bass lost his closer role in Miami because he is not a late inning guy. He is a 6-7 inning guy and just doesn't have the makeup for late inning stuff. It is in the splits and Saturday was a good example. Pop is a good future acquisition IMO but didn't do anything for putting us over the top in 2022.

 

White-- Well, we saw that you are not going to Ross Stripling the Dodgers more than once and did nothing to take us to the next level.

 

How nice would it have been to have a 1-2 punch of Romano and Iglesias or some the amount of high leverage options out of the Mariner's, Astros, Braves, Cleveland, Tampa or Yankees pens, even with their injuries.

 

I did like the Merrifield acquisition, but without upgrades in other areas and not being a left bat, his positives were mitigated.

 

You need to move your assets in area of strengths when at their highest value. We have three really good catchers and we have Chapman at 3b. Not sustainable and if you have to move one, why not when you have the best chance at the playoffs and making your team next level not just good enough to get in a wildcard. We can't be waiting for next year and the year after.

 

Boston will better next year, the Orioles will be better, the Rays are the Rays and the Yankees the Yankees. Seattle will continue to be good with their youth and I expect more out of the Twins and especially the White Sox next year. Houston is always good and is rich in pitching and Detroit is up and coming. No guarantees we even get a WC next year.

 

This was our year and we played it too safe, did not address needs and failed egregiously to plan for more depth in areas which were obvious risk factors.

 

We need better D from some of our stars also... That is more on coaching though IMO. We need consistency, too many highlight plays but then not making the routine play or plays that are reflecting on our run prevention.

 

Improved run prevention and optimizing our offense, left handed stud batters etc.

 

I will give you 1 more year on probation Ross. Produce or we need to take corrective actions,

Edited October 9, 2022 by Carlos Danger

[jaysblue]

I would put Ross on a Performance Improvement Plan (PIP).With one more year to show improvement.

 

There are strengths and weaknesses of the Atkins/Shapiro duo. However, I see no improvement on the weakness sides in a lot of respects.

 

Manoha is the only home grown stud pitcher since the 2015 off season. Romano was a hold over from the AA regime and they ended up rule 5ing the dude.

 

Most of the playoff teams have homegrown guys in their pen and high leverage roles. The Jays do not apart from Romano and he is an AA product. Mayza I don't consider a stud and he is an AA product also.

 

Depth- I find it egregious the lack of depth planning or depth itself for the Jays. It was plain as day to me that we did not have the SP depth going into this season. Ruy was always hurt, a year older and a high probability he would get hurt or suck. Kickuchi had half a season of decent pitching and it was the first half of 2021 not the second half. The second half should have been an indicator not an outlier. Right there you have 2/3 of your rotation questionable. An injury to either Gausman, Manoah or Berrios and you have only Stripling as a reasonable back up and no one thought he would exceed expectations. Even with 5 awesome SPs with no injury history, you need depth beyond one SP.

 

Our lack of SP depth and s***** outing from our SPs almost cost us big time and def why we were a WC and not division champs.

 

The BP- We were a single point of failure from being really screwed if we lost Romano for any amount of time or he went into a serious slump. Our eggs were all in one basket and that is a horrible strategy.

 

The trade deadline was risk averse, I blame that on Shapiro and goes back to him never winning a WS.

 

The trade deadline was insufficient to address what our needs were and when not considered in a vacuum. Our competition improved more significantly then we did. The game 1 loss was example A.

 

Bass lost his closer role in Miami because he is not a late inning guy. He is a 6-7 inning guy and just doesn't have the makeup for late inning stuff. It is in the splits and Saturday was a good example. Pop is a good future acquisition IMO but didn't do anything for putting us over the top in 2022.

 

White-- Well, we saw that you are not going to Ross Stripling the Dodgers more than once and did nothing to take us to the next level.

 

How nice would it have been to have a 1-2 punch of Romano and Iglesias or some the amount of high leverage options out of the Mariner's, Astros, Braves, Cleveland, Tampa or Yankees pens, even with their injuries.

 

I did like the Merrifield acquisition, but without upgrades in other areas and not being a left bat, his positives were mitigated.

 

You need to move your assets in area of strengths when at their highest value. We have three really good catchers and we have Chapman at 3b. Not sustainable and if you have to move one, why not when you have the best chance at the playoffs and making your team next level not just good enough to get in a wildcard. We can't be waiting for next year and the year after.

 

Boston will better next year, the Orioles will be better, the Rays are the Rays and the Yankees the Yankees. Seattle will continue to be good with their youth and I expect more out of the Twins and especially the White Sox next year. Hosution is always good and is rich in pitching and Detroit is up and coming. No guarantees we even get a WC next year.

 

This was our year and we played it too safe, did not address needs and failed egregiously to plan for more depth in areas which were obvious risk factors.

 

We need better D from some of our stars also... That is more on coaching though IMO. We need consistency, too many highlight plays but then not making the routine play or plays that are reflecting on our run prevention.

 

Improved run prevention and optimizing our offense.

 

I will give you 1 more year on probation Ross. Produce or we need to take corrective actions,

 

Yeah I think ideally Atkins gets one more shot and I think he deserves one more chance in 2023 all things considered. He has made some solid big signings/trades as I said previously like with Gausman, Chapman, Springer, Berrios, Ray, and Semien to complement the young pieces on this roster over the last several years.

 

Like you said about roster depth: his front office has done a very poor job at addressing roster depth the past two years and that has shown in 2021 and 2022. It's like he has ignored the rest of the roster. Over 162 game season, he's playing with thin ice. Give the rotation as an example: if Gausman or Manoah went down on the IL and missed a month or more, this team doesn't win a Wildcard spot. If the bullpen lost Romano, they likely don't win a Wildcard spot. We saw with the lineup this season when Springer, Hernandez and Lourdes all hit the IL at certain points, they were replaced by Tapia and Zimmer, which hurt the team more than anything when they were played too much.

 

I hope he better prepares the Jays over 162 games next season and puts a roster in place that can go deep into the Postseason.

[dineke]

The guy is coming off a 92 win season??????

 

I thought we had a consensus on this board that the playoffs are random. Has Reddit users taken over this forum these days?

[Carlos Danger]

183 wins over 2 years (first time in 30 years 4th time in team history) wiped out by 2 losses (one filled with bad luck). Congrats BJMB you just became the Cleveland fanbase.

 

When is the last time Cleveland won a world series? Losing an 8-1 lead is not just bad luck, to try and make it out as soley bad luck is being very obtuse.

 

The fact of the matter is you are competing against other teams in baseball and the object Goal is to win a WS, not just make the WC. One being a COVID year where we also lost in 2 games.

 

Who gives a s*** about how many wins if that doesn't translate into playoff success. With all those wins the Jays got, there were still a bunch of other teams with equal or more.

 

Ross has done some great moves, Chapman as an example, but if you look at the results in totality vs the object goal.. As I said, one more year.

 

2020 expanded playoffs out in 2.

 

2021 Did not make the playoffs

 

2022- Many red flags not addressed. Just a good enough team to make the WC but not enough done to adjust

the roster to be a dominant playoff team.

[Krylian]

I would.

But he's not going anywhere yet.

[Signal]

I remember coming to this site complaining that the Jays did not do enough in the offseason to improve the bullpen. I got shot down. Stayed for about another week and realized that the so-called experts on this site that go about arguing every point don't know s***.

[Terminator]

I wouldn't fire Atkins. He hasn't been perfect but the process has been pretty sound and I think the org is in good shape moving forward. Entering the year the projections had us a hair better than the Yankees and I think entering next year it will be about the same. Atkins seems to be as good of a bet moving forward as some no name within the industry.

 

That said, this is a tough and competitive business though so I would consider replacing him if a proven GM from a small market team wanted to make the jump to a team with a bigger payroll.

[Spanky99]

I remember coming to this site complaining that the Jays did not do enough in the offseason to improve the bullpen. I got shot down. Stayed for about another week and realized that the so-called experts on this site that go about arguing every point don't know s***.

 

Link... show us where?

 

ETA; Dude, you didn't even post in the offseason, lol???

Edited October 10, 2022 by Spanky99

[jaysguy44]

I remember coming to this site complaining that the Jays did not do enough in the offseason to improve the bullpen. I got shot down. Stayed for about another week and realized that the so-called experts on this site that go about arguing every point don't know s***.

Uh, who are you?

[Laika]

The bullpen was fine, lmao.

 

They blew it of course but it was good enough.

 

Max Scherzer gave up four homers in one playoff game this year you know