General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2022)

[Grant77]

https://www.bluejaysmessageboard.com/threads/10277-Toronto-Blue-Jays-Roster-Discussion-(2022)/page2?highlight=roster+2022

 

Starts post #22

 

Deadpool says “nonsense” . Not surprised by the fake Deadpool since he exists on post count, not post quality. Stanstag- LOL What!! Grant being Grant, the rest is self evident.

 

Almost like Deje vu…..

 

Then again questioning the pen in post # 51….

 

Sorry for saying Manoah is really good and not predicting that a player that has never had an arm injury would get TJS. I'm not sure what I was thinking.

 

You didn't say anything in that thread that was particularly noteworthy or out of line with what others thought. That's kind of abnormal as your takes are often particularly foolish in hindsight.

[Spanky99]

https://www.bluejaysmessageboard.com/threads/10277-Toronto-Blue-Jays-Roster-Discussion-(2022)/page2?highlight=roster+2022

 

Starts post #22

 

Deadpool says “nonsense” . Not surprised by the fake Deadpool since he exists on post count, not post quality. Stanstag- LOL What!! Grant being Grant, the rest is self evident.

 

Almost like Deje vu…..

 

Then again questioning the pen in post # 51….

 

lmao

[Carlos Danger]

Sorry for saying Manoah is really good and not predicting that a player that has never had an arm injury would get TJS. I'm not sure what I was thinking.

 

You didn't say anything in that thread that was particularly noteworthy or out of line with what others thought. That's kind of abnormal as your takes are often particularly foolish in hindsight.

 

I didn’t say one negative thing about Manoah Grant. I even said that in my posts. Recent suck, injury history and age are trends/factors that should not be ignored for Ryu and I said that.

 

Just take the loss on this one and own it. All I said in my OP was I don’t think we have enough depth starting the 2022 season. At the end if the day it was a spot on assertion.

 

Maybe I will be proven wrong this year, which will be a good thing for the Team and the fans.

[Spanky99]

I didn’t say one negative thing about Manoah Grant. I even said that in my posts. Recent suck, injury history and age are trends/factors that should not be ignored for Ryu and I said that.

 

Just take the loss on this one and own it. All I said in my OP was I don’t think we have enough depth starting the 2022 season. At the end if the day it was a spot on assertion.

 

Maybe I will be proven wrong this year, which will be a good thing for the Team and the fans.

 

It wasn't all bad, Stripling was a boss. It's hardly a feather in your cap, lets wait till the offseason is over before you stress out, bro.

[Deadpool]

https://www.bluejaysmessageboard.com/threads/10277-Toronto-Blue-Jays-Roster-Discussion-(2022)/page2?highlight=roster+2022

 

Starts post #22

 

Deadpool says “nonsense” . Not surprised by the fake Deadpool since he exists on post count, not post quality. Stanstag- LOL What!! Grant being Grant, the rest is self evident.

 

Almost like Deje vu…..

 

Then again questioning the pen in post # 51….

 

I make more insightful posts when I'm literally passed out than you make on your best day, chump.

[Deadpool]

Kikuchi is #5. History will tell you the #6 starter starts roughly 20 games in a season, and 4 other depth pitchers start another 10-15.

 

White's numbers and projections reflect usage out of the bullpen. Numbers as a reliever tend to > numbers as a starter. We saw how Mitch White did as a starter last season.

 

Maybe he will do a mini-breakout as an SP, but a contending team shouldn't bank on it. He basically has two pitches, that can work as a reliever, generally does not as a starter.

 

White's Steamer projection is based on 8 starts, and 34 appearances out of the bullpen. 8 starts is what a #7 SP typically gets in a season.

 

Honestly, I think it's more likely that Zulu or Tiedemann get 20 starts than White does. White will start if a pitcher has a minor injury that doesn't require an IL stint, but does need a start skipped. If someone gets hurt and will be out for a while they'll bring up one of the prospects.

[Jimcanuck]

Honestly, I think it's more likely that Zulu or Tiedemann get 20 starts than White does. White will start if a pitcher has a minor injury that doesn't require an IL stint, but does need a start skipped. If someone gets hurt and will be out for a while they'll bring up one of the prospects.

 

Maybe, but that's not something any contender should be relying on going into the season.

 

If Zulu and Tiedemann are not ready for MLB hitters (quite likely in fact), as things stand now we have Kikuchi and White getting approximately 50 starts. I don't know about you, but I'm not comfortable with that at all. They need to add one more experienced SP. Adding a 3rd SP increases the probability one of the 3 performs like 2022 Stripling. If 2 of them do, Jays get a bye.

 

Pitching depth is a good thing.

[glory]

The front office seems pretty confident that they are adding a LH bat. Interesting to see which direction they go as the options are dwindling with Conforto gone. Profar, Peralta, and Kepler are out there in free agency and trade, while Reynolds is out there for a potential mega trade, which I don’t think the Jays should be doing right now. They are likely going to be a tax team this season and that’s without extensions to Vlad/Bo. They can’t really afford to trade high end prospects anymore. They need those prospects to perform cheaply in the Majors, especially in the rotation where they already have 3 $20m AAV players, another on a long term deal (Berrios), and then Kikuchi’s deal.

 

Profar is not a middle of the order hitter but otherwise he seems to fit what the Jays are looking for, and his numbers with/without the shift as a LHB are dramatic from what I’ve read. Peralta seems like a vetrin stopgap type. Trade options other than Reynolds and Kepler seem scarce as well unless there’s a name out there that no one has discussed before, which is possible.

[Jimcanuck]

Remember, Tiedemann has pitched 11 innings above A ball.

[L54]

Agreed Jim. Can’t count on Ricky or Zulu as depth to start the season. If they force their way up then you’re in a great spot. If not and you brought in a #5 you’ve at least insulated yourself to some degree.

[Carlos Danger]

I make more insightful posts when I'm literally passed out than you make on your best day, chump.

 

Trust me, I know you 100% think that. That is what makes it so funny. Just thousands of bad, bad baseball takes living in cyber history is your legacy.

Spoiling the name of the best MCU character of them all.

[Deadpool]

Trust me, I know you 100% think that. That is what makes it so funny. Just thousands of bad, bad baseball takes living in cyber history is your legacy.

Spoiling the name of the best MCU character of them all.

 

Here's the problem with this post: It's wrong.

 

Even the MCU thing, Deadpool hasn't yet appeared in the MCU. Deadpool has only appeared in movies for Fox, which are not part of the MCU. The NEXT Deadpool movie will be in the MCU.

[Brownie19]

Maybe, but that's not something any contender should be relying on going into the season.

 

If Zulu and Tiedemann are not ready for MLB hitters (quite likely in fact), as things stand now we have Kikuchi and White getting approximately 50 starts. I don't know about you, but I'm not comfortable with that at all. They need to add one more experienced SP. Adding a 3rd SP increases the probability one of the 3 performs like 2022 Stripling. If 2 of them do, Jays get a bye.

 

Pitching depth is a good thing.

 

Holy f*** - of course we'd all love them to sign a couple more FA starters as depth. Nobody is arguing that adding SP depth would be a BAD thing. The big question is how much more money can they spend and how do we spend it wisely. If the Jays are content spending another $40M then f*** - go wild and sign shitbags like Wacha and Cueto as "depth". Of course that would benefit the team. However, if we only have $10M left to spend, then we need to spend that wisely and adding a $10M s*** baller might not be the best approach. Maybe we land a MLB ready starter in a trade for Jansen, or maybe we add a starter with MLB experience who's been injured and we stash them in AAA as depth. There should be little doubt in anyone's mind that the FO is exploring all the options. There are other ways to add depth besides paying the leftovers the remaining budget we have. And f*** - of course if 2 of our top 4 starters go down with injury we're in big trouble - said every team in major league baseball. Newsflash, if Springer and KK get hurt, our OF is f***ed too.

 

Do you and CD keep going on about this so you can point back in August and say "I told you so" or some s***? Is that what gets you off? How are we still talking about this?

Edited December 23, 2022 by Brownie19

[Carlos Danger]

Here's the problem with this post: It's wrong.

 

Even the MCU thing, Deadpool hasn't yet appeared in the MCU. Deadpool has only appeared in movies for Fox, which are not part of the MCU. The NEXT Deadpool movie will be in the MCU.

 

Deadpool officially entered the Marvel Cinematic Universe in July 2021 when he did a promo for Free Guy. Deadpool has always been part of the Marvel Comic Universe.

 

https://ew.com/movies/ryan-reynolds-deadpool-enters-mcu-korg-free-guy/

[Deadpool]

Deadpool officially entered the Marvel Cinematic Universe in July 2021 when he did a promo for Free Guy. Deadpool has always been part of the Marvel Comic Universe.

 

https://ew.com/movies/ryan-reynolds-deadpool-enters-mcu-korg-free-guy/

 

[Grant77]

I didn’t say one negative thing about Manoah Grant. I even said that in my posts. Recent suck, injury history and age are trends/factors that should not be ignored for Ryu and I said that.

 

Just take the loss on this one and own it. All I said in my OP was I don’t think we have enough depth starting the 2022 season. At the end if the day it was a spot on assertion.

 

Maybe I will be proven wrong this year, which will be a good thing for the Team and the fans.

 

Haha WTF is this? Saying that the team could use more pitching depth is something that was said on many occasions. I'm not 'taking an L' because I said Manoah was good or didn't predict a mostly inconsequential injury.

 

This team was not a backend starter away from winning a championship. I would argue that it would have made zero difference in the standings or the playoff performance.

[Dick_Pole]

interesting that Gurriel made his way into this graphic

 

The chances of Gurriel being on the team on opening day is extremely high. I mean, they can't trade him. Both for the fact that they desperately need outfielders and that he hasn't got a lot of value. Him making it over others might say more about the guys not pictured.

 

Epic win for me. Time to change up the marketing material.

[Grant77]

Anthony Kay to the Cubs

[Laika]

Epic win for me. Time to change up the marketing material.

 

Lmao

[Ehjays]

Anthony Kay to the Cubs

 

[Spanky99]

Blue Jays make win-now move, getting Daulton Varsho for Gabriel Moreno, Lourdes Gurriel Jr.

 

 

 

By Kaitlyn McGrath

 

Months ago, the Blue Jays’ offseason began with a series of questions. Every team always faces them. Some of the big ones for Toronto included:

 

1. Will this offseason be transformative?

 

2. Could the team address its lineup imbalance by acquiring left-handed hitters?

 

3. Would the Blue Jays have to trade from their healthy stock of MLB-calibre catchers to address a need? And if so, which of the three?

 

About six weeks ago, the Blue Jays answered the first question with a resounding yes with their first major move of the offseason, trading fan favourite Teoscar Hernández to the Seattle Mariners for reliever Erik Swanson.

 

And now, with the club’s latest trade, the other two questions have been answered and the first has been underlined again. The Blue Jays traded Gabriel Moreno, their 22-year-old catcher and No. 1 prospect, along with left fielder and another fan favourite, Lourdes Gurriel Jr., to the Arizona Diamondbacks for left-handed outfielder Daulton Varsho. The two-for-one swap, announced Friday, saw both clubs deal from their areas of depth to complete the significant trade.

 

 

The Blue Jays landed the best player in the deal as of this moment, but the steep price was sending the Diamondbacks a consensus top-tier prospect, the kind rarely dealt these days as teams increasingly cherish their young talent. However, with Toronto’s depth at catcher, moving on from Moreno was likely made easier. Danny Jansen and Alejandro Kirk can stop checking the trade rumours. They’ll form Toronto’s catching tandem next season.

 

Gurriel has been with the Blue Jays since he signed as an amateur free agent in 2016, and he developed into a solid contact hitter while converting from an infielder to an outfielder. Gurriel has been well-liked among players and coaches. The Blue Jays weren’t looking to trade him. But according to a person familiar with the negotiations, he had to be included to get the deal across the finish line. He gives Arizona an experienced, right-handed outfielder who can make up for some of the loss of Varsho before he becomes a free agent after the season. Meanwhile, Diamondbacks general manager Mike Hazen said parting with Varsho was “very difficult.”

 

“We drafted him, developed him through our system. One of the players that, I think, we’re very proud to have on our team and in our organization,” Hazen said on a videoconference with reporters. “(He) does it the right way, plays hard. I think fans appreciated the way he played both offensively and defensively. So, that was a challenge.”

 

In all trades, teams are looking to match up in value and circumstance. With this deal, the Blue Jays have paid the hefty cost for a win-now move that fills a desperate need. The Diamondbacks, on the other hand, might take a step back in the short term but will hope to reap the benefits of acquiring a prospect with All-Star potential.

 

In Varsho, the Blue Jays acquire a young, elite defensive outfielder who hits for power from the left side, giving much-needed balance to their predominantly right-handed lineup. Even after the club signed Kevin Kiermaier to a one-year deal, general manager Ross Atkins said Toronto was still seeking more offence from the left-hand side. Varsho can provide that for at least the next four seasons; he’s scheduled to become a free agent after the 2026 season.

 

Varsho, 26, had his best season to date in 2022, hitting .235/.302/.443 with a career-high 27 home runs in 151 games. During his three years in the majors, he’s struck out at a slightly higher-than-average clip (24 percent) while walking at an average rate (8.6 percent). What he lacks in average, he makes up for in his slugging ability, with a 10.2 percent barrel rate, which ranked in the 70th percentile leaguewide, per Statcast. His 106 wRC+ in 2022 suggests he was a slightly above-average hitter, and he projects to be around the same in 2023, per FanGraphs’ Steamer system. He’s traditionally performed better against right-handed pitchers (112 wRC+) than left-handers (66 wRC+).

 

Steamer’s fWAR projections suggest the Blue Jays have effectively replaced Hernández and Gurriel (3.6 fWAR) with Kiermaier and Varsho (4.2 fWAR). The latter two outfielders pack more of their impact defensively compared with the former two, although if there was an area from which the Blue Jays could spare some effectiveness, it was the offence. Their position player group still projects to be worth 33.5 fWAR, per FanGraphs Depth Charts, a number that’s tied for first in the American League with the New York Yankees.

 

A sizable portion of Varsho’s overall value comes from his defence, and he’ll go a long way toward addressing the Blue Jays’ emphasis on better run prevention. While playing centre and right field for Arizona, he recorded 18 outs above average in 2022, which ranked first among all outfielders. His aptitude in the outfield is largely thanks to his sneaky speed and first step. His 4.6 fWAR ranked eighth among all qualified outfielders last season. His speed serves him on the bases, too, leading to 16 stolen bases a year ago.

 

By dealing Hernández and now Gurriel, both scheduled to be free agents after the 2023 season, the Blue Jays have remodelled their outfield into one that could be among the best in the majors defensively. Varsho and Kiermaier are plus centre fielders, and their presence will allow George Springer to spend more time playing right field. Varsho can play all three outfield spots, but with Kiermaier expected to get the first crack at centre field, Varsho projects as the team’s left fielder. He hasn’t played there much in his MLB career (17 games), but his instincts should make him a quick study. Cavan Biggio and Whit Merrifield can cover the outfield, too.

 

Although this deal serves to remix Toronto’s outfield, it also solidifies the outlook behind the plate, with Jansen and Kirk projected to be the primary catchers next season. Varsho, who was drafted and developed as a catcher, can function as an extra backup, which will be useful in instances when the Blue Jays use one of their catchers as DH. Even with Moreno off their depth chart, the Blue Jays project to have the majors’ best catching tandem — with Varsho as a third — with a 5.9 fWAR, according to FanGraphs Depth Charts.

 

Moreno had topped the Blue Jays’ prospect list, per The Athletic’s Keith Law, and made his MLB debut in June, playing 25 games with Toronto. In a small sample, he flashed his athleticism, especially his powerful arm. He put the ball in play a lot at the plate, although there were questions about his power after he hit four home runs in 87 combined games in Triple A and MLB.

 

Moreno still needs development time, perhaps especially from a game-calling perspective. A win-now club like the Blue Jays might not have had that luxury, especially with two other MLB-calibre catchers. Although Atkins maintained that the team would have been comfortable rostering all three next season, the ideal path for the club was using that valuable depth to bolster an area of weakness, especially if the player coming back had years of control, as Varsho does.

 

The Blue Jays may not yet be done this offseason. The club is still open to continuing to add on the pitching front, especially if there is an opportunity to enhance the bullpen. With Gurriel gone, the Blue Jays could look to still add on the position player side as well, most likely again in the outfield. But in trading for Varsho, the Blue Jays have landed the lefty power bat they need while cashing in their best trade chip.

Edited December 24, 2022 by Spanky99

[PhillyBlueJay]

Do you think the Jays Brass are holding out hopes for Nate Person nailing down a bullpen spot for a 7th-8th inning guy.

 

I read somewhere that coming into 2023 spring training he is being groomed as a 1 inning relief guy and his Dominican Winter Leagues showing looked good!

 

I don’t see the Jays getting another bullpen guy with Pearson waiting to claim a spot!

 

That being said, I can see the Jays signing Corey Kluber, Jonny Cueto, or Michael Wacha.

 

Would be interesting to see based on Jays new outfield defense which pitcher would benefit most with fly ball outs if signed by the Blue Jays???

[Ehjays]

[Jays24]

Do you think the Jays Brass are holding out hopes for Nate Person nailing down a bullpen spot for a 7th-8th inning guy.

 

I read somewhere that coming into 2023 spring training he is being groomed as a 1 inning relief guy and his Dominican Winter Leagues showing looked good!

 

I don’t see the Jays getting another bullpen guy with Pearson waiting to claim a spot!

 

That being said, I can see the Jays signing Corey Kluber, Jonny Cueto, or Michael Wacha.

 

Would be interesting to see based on Jays new outfield defense which pitcher would benefit most with fly ball outs if signed by the Blue Jays???

 

Honestly... the Jays have been holding out hope for like 4 years. Planning anything around him or Merryweather is foolish when your payrolls in the top 5 range in baseball. They should be seen as "bonuses" at this point.

[Terminator]

Where did the Merry Christmas thread go? I had some more thoughts I wanted to share.

[Carlos Danger]

Where did the Merry Christmas thread go?

 

Good question!???

[Jimcanuck]

Where did the Merry Christmas thread go? I had some more thoughts I wanted to share.

 

The one with the nudes?

[Terminator]

Did the mods declare War on Christmas?

[Terminator]

The one with the nudes?

 

Yes but I thought they were pretty tasteful.

[Carlos Danger]

The one with the nudes?

 

It was just a silhouette..