General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2022)

[jaysblue]

interesting that Gurriel made his way into this graphic

 

Shocked no Chapman or Kirk haha.

[Stangstag]

Shocked no Chapman or Kirk haha.

 

Kirk aint safe

[Laika]

The chances of Gurriel being on the team on opening day is extremely high. I mean, they can't trade him. Both for the fact that they desperately need outfielders and that he hasn't got a lot of value. Him making it over others might say more about the guys not pictured.

 

Okay but Chapman is better and the same applies

Heck even Espinal is a better player and certain to be here

 

I think Gurriel was out WAR-d by Biggio and Berrios!

[wilko]

Okay but Chapman is better and the same applies

Heck even Espinal is a better player and certain to be here

 

I think Gurriel was out WAR-d by Biggio and Berrios!

 

Gurriel's the glue to keeping the Barrio alive!

[G-Snarls]

Kirk aint safe

 

Also un-sexy? LOL sorry

[G-Snarls]

They went with

 

Romano

Springer

Manoah

Bo

Gausman

Vladdy

Gurriel

 

No Chapman, no Berrios, no Kirk, No Jansen.

 

I dunno You can't fit 'em all... Not sure I'd read too much into it.

[Brownie19]

So we face a lefty who are we sitting? Kiermaier who says he’s not platooning either, Springer, Gurriel, or Kirk? Whit also available as it’d probably be a good idea to get Espinal in vs. a lefty.

 

I don't know - who's injured in this scenario? Someone is always injured. You can always sit one of Conforto or KK and simply call it a rest day - there can't be an expectation they will play all 162 games. Springer, Gurriel, Kirk, Jansen don't hit lefties significantly better than righties (like Espinal does) so they could also have a rest day....that's if Jansen's even on the team - if not, you could sit 1 of the catchers.

 

I don't see this as an issue myself. The only guy I'm probably trying to get in there v. a LH starter is Espinal and maybe Merrifield. I would probably try to find an excuse to get either Conforto or KK on the bench if I can.

 

LF - Conforto

CF/RF - Merrifield

RF/CF - Springer

2nd - Espinal

C - Kirk/Jansen

DH - Kirk/Jansen or Gurriel

 

Next time we face a LH starter, you put KK in there and Conforto sits - assuming everyone is healthy (which is unlikely)

[Jimcanuck]

Also un-sexy? LOL sorry

 

It's in the eye of the beholder. There are some that find a pig sexy. A good looking friend of mine has a 300 lb pig living in the house with her, and posts pics all over FB with heart emojis.

[Laika]

Gurriel's the glue to keeping the Barrio alive!

 

facts

[Stangstag]

Okay but Chapman is better and the same applies

Heck even Espinal is a better player and certain to be here

 

I think Gurriel was out WAR-d by Biggio and Berrios!

 

Gurriel has been here for years. He’s gotta be the longest-tenured player on the team at this point I think?

[The Cats Ass]

Gurriel has been here for years. He’s gotta be the longest-tenured player on the team at this point I think?

 

Tied with Danny Jansen. I figure that's why he's on the ad.

[Laika]

Gurriel has been here for years. He’s gotta be the longest-tenured player on the team at this point I think?

 

Gotta be close

 

Mayza debuted in 2017. I think Gurriel and Jansen both the next year.

 

If we are talking about being in the org then I guess Romano the 2014 draftee might be the oldest?

[The Cats Ass]

Gotta be close

 

Mayza debuted in 2017. I think Gurriel and Jansen both the next year.

 

If we are talking about being in the org then I guess Romano the 2014 draftee might be the oldest?

 

Forgot about Mayza. He also tops Romano there, Mayza was 2013. Danny Jansen is also 2013.

[Grant77]

Casey Lawrence has been around since 2010 if he is still with the organization.

[Terminator]

I don't know - who's injured in this scenario? Someone is always injured. You can always sit one of Conforto or KK and simply call it a rest day - there can't be an expectation they will play all 162 games. Springer, Gurriel, Kirk, Jansen don't hit lefties significantly better than righties (like Espinal does) so they could also have a rest day....that's if Jansen's even on the team - if not, you could sit 1 of the catchers.

 

I don't see this as an issue myself. The only guy I'm probably trying to get in there v. a LH starter is Espinal and maybe Merrifield. I would probably try to find an excuse to get either Conforto or KK on the bench if I can.

 

LF - Conforto

CF/RF - Merrifield

RF/CF - Springer

2nd - Espinal

C - Kirk/Jansen

DH - Kirk/Jansen or Gurriel

 

Next time we face a LH starter, you put KK in there and Conforto sits - assuming everyone is healthy (which is unlikely)

 

Ok thanks

[L54]

Kevin should sit against tough lefties in this scenario. Problem solved

[Laika]

Casey Lawrence has been around since 2010 if he is still with the organization.

 

Free agent at the moment

[John_Havok]

Free agent at the moment

 

Also left in 2017 for the Seattle org before not even playing pro ball from 2019-2020

[Krylian]

[Laika]

Pre 2022 blurb on that guy:

 

36. Julian Fernández, SIRP

Signed: July 2nd Period, 2012 from Dominican Republic (COL)

Age 26.1 Height 6′ 6″ Weight 233 Bat / Thr R / R FV 35+

Tool Grades (Present/Future)

Fastball Changeup Command Sits/Tops

70/70 45/45 20/20 98-101 / 103

You might remember Julian Fernández from the 2017 Rule 5 Draft. He’s still kicking around the upper levels of the minors with rookie eligibility after being passed back and forth by the Giants, Marlins and Rockies amid an unfortunately timed Tommy John and the pandemic. Before 2021, he had last pitched in games in ’17 and while he’s technically been part of those three orgs, he’s only ever actually pitched for the Rockies, finally reaching the big leagues in 2021. Fernández sits 97-101 mph and has a relatively new changeup. He is likely to continue to be very wild, limiting him to an up/down projection.

[Jonn]

 

Cool sign him up.

[Terminator]

Get that poor bastard out of the Rockies system and maybe he can do something with that 99 mph fastball.

[Ehjays]

 

This has probably already happened, I cant see them leaking info like this to BNS unless its already done. A non-roster signing is a no brainer. Great move if true.

[Carlos Danger]

Gausman

Manoah

Bassitt

Berrios

Kikuchi

White

Zulueta

Tiedimann

Ryu

 

That's not what I would call "thin" How many teams, even playoff teams, have the luxury of a guy like Berrios as their #4? There are questions about #5, sure, but there are 5 options there who all have the potential to be mid rotation or better, so more than likely one of the four healthy guys wins the job in spring training and we're good. We also have Francis who I still haven't given up on, and while I think most people have given up on Pearson as a starting option (myself, finally, included) he's still technically on that list.

 

The Sheriff is 100% right.

 

If this was a business plan I would kick it back and cancel your bonus.

 

This is a great starting 4. That does not equal depth. The Blue Jays have made the team and SPs better than last year. Great starting four!

 

Let's take a look after that:

 

Why are people considering Kikuchi and White as depth. What changed from last season? What metric are you using to show that there will be a difference from the 2022 season? Kikuchi has 1 and 1/2 seasons of suck vs 1/2 a season of being good.

 

That is not a strategic plan built on substance, it is a hope and prey. Hope and pray maybe one of the two will be better. Hope and prayer is not an acceptable strategy.

 

Ryu is older, not shown a propensity to stay healthy and good, need both the past few years. Again, this is a hope and pray strategy based on zero metrics saying he will be available, healthy and good.

 

Relying on spec SPs that have never pitched an inning of MLB is not a strategy, again, it is hoping that one of those spec SPs can come up and translate their milb numbers to MLB hitters. The track record on milb pitchers doing this is very small compared to the rankings pre first MLB appearance. Then, you have pitch count restrictions etc.

 

The usual suspects were saying our pitching depth was fine last year prior to the season. I said it was not, it was not.

 

Again, great starting 4.. Good job FO. After that 4, off a cliff.... based on any tangible MLB performance metrics.

Edited December 22, 2022 by Carlos Danger

[Laika]

The Sheriff is 100% right.

 

If this was a business plan I would kick it back and cancel your bonus.

 

This is a great starting 4. That does not equal depth. The Blue Jays have made the team and SPs better than last year. Great starting four!

 

Let's take a look after that:

 

Why are people considering Kikuchi and White as depth. What changed from least season? What metric are you using to show that there will be a difference from the 2022 season? Kikuchi has 1 and 1/2 seasons of suck vs 1/2 a season of being good.

 

That is not a strategic plan built on substance, it is a hope and prey. Hope and pray maybe one of the two will be better. Hope and prayer is not an acceptable strategy.

 

Ryu is older, not shown a propensity to stay healthy and good, need both the past few years. Again, this is a hope and pray strategy based on zero metrics saying he will be available, healthy and good.

 

Relying on spec SPs that have never pitched an inning of MLB is not a strategy, again, it is hoping that one of those spec SPs can come up and translate their milb numbers to MLB hitters. The track record on milb pitchers doing this is very small compared to the rankings pre first MLB appearance. Then, you have pitch count restrictions etc.

 

The usual suspects were saying our pitching depth was fine last year prior to the season. I said it was not, it was not.

 

Again, great starting 4.. Good job FO. After that 4, off a cliff.... based on any tangible MLB performance metrics.

 

literally just projections

 

it's not that complicated

 

it's not just wish casting

[The Iceman]

Wonder what speed a guy that throws 101 MPH throws his change-up?

[Carlos Danger]

literally just projections

 

it's not that complicated

 

it's not just wish casting

 

What metrics are they using to forecast improvements as SP for Kickuchi and White???

 

Kickuchi pitched in the pen to end the year. White didn't finish the season strong..

 

If you had a pitcher who's over all numbers sucked but they finished strong or were a BABIP victim it is one thing. I don't see any of that with these two.. You are literally relying on some voodoo magic to project an improvement..

 

I agree with Jim and others.. We should bring in another SP.. Wade Miley, Wacha etc... Someone that has a more consistent track record then anything else I have seen.. Which is just throwing s*** (with some of them) against the wall and hope it sticks.

[John_Havok]

What metrics are they using to forecast improvements as SP for Kickuchi and White???

 

Kickuchi pitched in the pen to end the year. White didn't finish the season strong..

 

If you had a pitcher who's over all numbers sucked but they finished strong or were a BABIP victim it is one thing. I don't see any of that with these two.. You are literally relying on some voodoo magic to project an improvement..

 

I agree with Jim and others.. We should bring in another SP.. Wade Miley, Wacha etc... Someone that has a more consistent track record then anything else I have seen.. Which is just throwing s*** (with some of them) against the wall and hope it sticks.

 

Largely, they'll be using in-house proprietary systems for their projections that we have 0 access to. You make it sound like they just grab guys and hope they are good. They're using the same systems that told them Ray was a great gamble at the right price, Matz was a good proespective option, etc etc.

 

No, that doesnt mean that every pitcher they grab will live up to their projections. No, it's not perfect, nobody claims it is. No, just because it's not perfect doesnt mean it's useless.

[Ehjays]

[connorp]

 

That’s what I’m saying. It’ll be nice to spell Springer during the regular season in CF to keep him healthy, but come playoff time, optionally he’s in CF where you won’t miss a beat defensively. And you have corner OF that can hit too