General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2022)

[wamco]

Every year the names for the BP get posted and pimped. At least you kept it a little reserved. It could be solid, or really bad. Of course you say that about other BPs, many are in the same boat. Not a lot of scary stuff in the list though. Hopefully Swanson proves legit

 

Not scary but no crap either. When ur 8th reliever is pop, that is a solid pen.

[Jonn]

Jays need a minimum of 2 more relievers this off-season. This pen still sucks.

 

Pop is absolutely nothing.

 

If its true the Cardinals were really offer Ryan Helsley for Jansen and the Jays passed I'm major league pissed.

[glory]

Jays have signed Kiermaier according to Davidi.

[max silver]

Jays need a minimum of 2 more relievers this off-season. This pen still sucks.

 

Pop is absolutely nothing.

 

If its true the Cardinals were really offer Ryan Helsley for Jansen and the Jays passed I'm major league pissed.

 

You sound as though the only thing that will satisfy you is having baseball's best bullpen. The presently assembled group comes with question marks, however they were basically a middle of the pack pen to end the season and just added a reliever who produced a 1.7 win season. There are finally potential reinforcements on the way from the minor leagues so they should have some depth available.

 

Zach Pop managed to produce 0.5 WAR in only 40 innings of work. If a team is able to run out guys like this in low leverage situations then maybe they aren't quite as bad as you think.

[Jonn]

You sound as though the only thing that will satisfy you is having baseball's best bullpen. The presently assembled group comes with question marks, however they were basically a middle of the pack pen to end the season and just added a reliever who produced a 1.7 win season. There are finally potential reinforcements on the way from the minor leagues so they should have some depth available.

 

Zach Pop managed to produce 0.5 WAR in only 40 innings of work. If a team is able to run out guys like this in low leverage situations then maybe they aren't quite as bad as you think.

 

I don’t care where our bullpen ranked in the league. We need guys who can come in and get no contact in tight situations. Its the difference between stranding runners with no advancement and having them come in on a ground ball up the middle or a sacrifice fly. Jays have tons of middle relievers. Very little weapons.

[Stangstag]

I don’t care where our bullpen ranked in the league. We need guys who can come in and get no contact in tight situations. Its the difference between stranding runners with no advancement and having them come in on a ground ball up the middle or a sacrifice fly. Jays have tons of middle relievers. Very little weapons.

 

Ah ok, so facts don’t matter then

[Deadpool]

If its true the Cardinals were really offer Ryan Helsley for Jansen and the Jays passed I'm major league pissed.

 

This board is just awesome for s*** like this. "Jays/Cards discussed Jansen deal, Helsley mentioned as possible piece" becomes "THE CARDINALS OFFERED HELSLEY TO THE JAYS FOR JANSEN AND ATKINS JUST LAUGHED IN THEIR FACES AND CALLED THEM DUMMIES!"

[wamco]

Ya I noticed that leap as well

[wamco]

So no more trading for a cf. opens up options

[Jonn]

Ah ok, so facts don’t matter then

 

Well those particular facts quickly become irrelevant when they don’t get the outs when they actually matter.

 

This board is just awesome for s*** like this. "Jays/Cards discussed Jansen deal, Helsley mentioned as possible piece" becomes "THE CARDINALS OFFERED HELSLEY TO THE JAYS FOR JANSEN AND ATKINS JUST LAUGHED IN THEIR FACES AND CALLED THEM DUMMIES!"

 

I wasn’t suggesting it was a straight up swap of those 2. But if that trade was even in a framework form and the Jays were unwilling to add or make it apart of a larger trade I’m disappointed.

[wamco]

We need to replace the guys that choked in game 2 with swing and miss guys

 

Mayza- brought in to face a righty

Bass

Romano

 

You need replaced!

[Jonn]

Mayza was brought in to face a switch-hitter but still a bad move. The move there was to stick with Gausman or bring in a swing and miss reliever.

 

Bass pitched extremely well for the Marlins last year. Probably well above his head. I don’t even think he was healthy down the strech. But his lack of missing bats and being extremely homerun prone doesn’t make him ideal for late game situations.

 

Romano was brought into an almost impossible situation because the bullpen couldn’t get outs ahead of him. He gave up 3 runs due to Bichette nearly killing Springer on a pop up. Not overly worried about him. But I wouldn’t say he’s exactly lockdown or anything. He’s mostly very good.

[Iggy]

Well those particular facts quickly become irrelevant when they don’t get the outs when they actually matter.

 

 

 

I wasn’t suggesting it was a straight up swap of those 2. But if that trade was even in a framework form and the Jays were unwilling to add or make it apart of a larger trade I’m disappointed.

 

I think any potential deal with the Cards was contingent on the Cards not signing Contreras. When the Cards did sign Contreras I think it's not realistic to blame the Jays for not making a deal. We will never know what the framework of the deal was

[Jonn]

I think any potential deal with the Cards was contingent on the Cards not signing Contreras. When the Cards did sign Contreras I think it's not realistic to blame the Jays for not making a deal. We will never know what the framework of the deal was

 

It’s irrelevant now for sure.

[Ehjays]

Jays need a minimum of 2 more relievers this off-season. This pen still sucks.

 

Pop is absolutely nothing.

 

If its true the Cardinals were really offer Ryan Helsley for Jansen and the Jays passed I'm major league pissed.

 

Where is the link for the Jays saying no to Helsley.

[wamco]

Mayza was brought in to face a switch-hitter but still a bad move. The move there was to stick with Gausman or bring in a swing and miss reliever.

 

Bass pitched extremely well for the Marlins last year. Probably well above his head. I don’t even think he was healthy down the strech. But his lack of missing bats and being extremely homerun prone doesn’t make him ideal for late game situations.

 

Romano was brought into an almost impossible situation because the bullpen couldn’t get outs ahead of him. He gave up 3 runs due to Bichette nearly killing Springer on a pop up. Not overly worried about him. But I wouldn’t say he’s exactly lockdown or anything. He’s mostly very good.

 

Ya I realize Santana was a switch hitter who immediately would bat righty when mayza came in. I wish Schneider would have seen that coming as well.

Bullpen is fine. Ross needs to actually sign studs instead of fat chicks (rp)

 

Eovaldi/bassit and conforto/Kepler and trade Jansen for the best Of Prospect you can get

[wamco]

Where is the link for the Jays saying no to Helsley.

 

No link as it’s not even rumored to have taken place

[Captain_Obvious]

No link as it’s not even rumored to have taken place

 

Here it is

https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/as-winter-meetings-come-to-a-close-blue-jays-opt-to-wait-out-other-opportunities/sn-amp/

[wamco]

And the part where jays refused to trade for stl closed?

[Captain_Obvious]

And the part where jays refused to trade for stl closed?

 

Do I have to read for you as well?

 

One industry source believes the Cardinals never engaged on outfielders Lars Nootbar and Dylan Carlson and tried to make a deal with closer Ryan Helsley instead.

[max silver]

Do I have to read for you as well?

 

One industry source believes the Cardinals never engaged on outfielders Lars Nootbar and Dylan Carlson and tried to make a deal with closer Ryan Helsley instead.

 

That's pure speculation on the part of an unnamed source. It would hard for this to be any less concrete than it is presently so this provides essentially zero proof that Helsley was ever on the table.

[Jimcanuck]

I can see Helsley in a deal for Murphy, but not Jansen. In fact, reports after the Cards signed Contreras is that the A's were asking for the moon, and the players named included Helsley.

 

If you read the report, it lumps Oakland and Toronto together.

 

Murphy has much more value than Jansen.

[max silver]

I can see Helsley in a deal for Murphy, but not Jansen. In fact, reports after the Cards signed Contreras is that the A's were asking for the moon, and the players named included Helsley.

 

If you read the report, it lumps Oakland and Toronto together.

 

Murphy has much more value than Jansen.

 

That's a really important point in this discussion. Murphy essentially represents a 99th percentile outcome (or maybe even higher) for Danny Jansen where he maintained his previous level of production while somehow finally managing to avoid injury for an entire season. Jansen simply hasn't shown the ability to avoid a steady stream of soft tissue injuries up to this point. Add in the extra year of control that comes along with Murphy and it's no surprise that one of these two players is a dramatically more valuable trade commodity.

[Captain_Obvious]

That's a really important point in this discussion. Murphy essentially represents a 99th percentile outcome (or maybe even higher) for Danny Jansen where he maintained his previous level of production while somehow finally managing to avoid injury for an entire season. Jansen simply hasn't shown the ability to avoid a steady stream of soft tissue injuries up to this point. Add in the extra year of control that comes along with Murphy and it's no surprise that one of these two players is a dramatically more valuable trade commodity.

 

Nobody is questioning that Murphy will bring more than Jansen.

 

The report is that the A's asked for Nootbaar + Donovan + Graceffo. The Jays asked for Nootbaar or Helsley only.

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/12/sean-murphy-trade-rumors-athletics-asking-price-nootbaar-donovan-cardinals.html

[Jimcanuck]

Nobody is questioning that Murphy will bring more than Jansen.

 

The report is that the A's asked for Nootbaar + Donovan + Graceffo. The Jays asked for Nootbaar or Helsley only.

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/12/sean-murphy-trade-rumors-athletics-asking-price-nootbaar-donovan-cardinals.html

 

All rumours and speculation of course (its f***ing mlbtraderumours after all), but the Jays asking for Helsley is much different that what Jonn said.

[FantasyNewb]

There's no way in hell they would've traded Helsley for Jansen. If so, the Jays would've made that deal immediately.

 

But it simply didn't happen that way. This is another case of misrepresentation of the facts. Don't trust everything you read.

[FantasyNewb]

Seriously though. As a GM why would you trade Teoscar for a reliever and a prospect, when you could trade Jansen for one of the best young relievers in the game? Helsley is more valuable than Swanson and Macko. Jansen would be trading from a strong point. Holding onto Teoscar, getting Helsley, having Moreno and Kirk man C, then signing KK for CF would be a MUCH stronger move. The front office aren't as dumb as we think. They knew that move wasn't going to happen.

[InsideThePark]

What did Helsley change between 2021 and last year that he suddenly became so good? From what I can tell he wasn't a great prospect. Was pretty terrible in his first 3 years, suddenly his K/9 increases from 9 to 13, and he cut his BB/9 in half. Swanson has had 1 good year too. This time last year one might have rather have Jordan Hicks than Helsley, what changed?

[John_Havok]

What did Helsley change between 2021 and last year that he suddenly became so good? From what I can tell he wasn't a great prospect. Was pretty terrible in his first 3 years, suddenly his K/9 increases from 9 to 13, and he cut his BB/9 in half. Swanson has had 1 good year too. This time last year one might have rather have Jordan Hicks than Helsley, what changed?

 

The only thing I could find on any real changes in Helsey from last years to 2022 is his extension. The last seasons he was around 6.4 to 6.5 feet of extension on his fastball, in 2022 it was 6.7 feet. The slider also saw a similar increase in extension from 6.4 to 6.6 feet.

 

He also threw his fastball harder on average. Couple the real increase in velo along with a perceived increase in velo from the extension increase and…there ya go. He was also healthy for the first time.

[TheHurl]

With the KK signing the Jays are back at 40. So who is next on the chopping block with the next signing?

 

Merryweather, Gage. Capra?