General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2022)

[max silver]

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/2022-trade-value-21-to-30/

 

Kirk is 27 and Bo is 21 on Fangraphs Top Trade Value list.

 

I think they are unfairly knocking Kirk for his defense though, which they admit drops him for around the 15th spot overall to 27th. His defense seems fine to me but it plays up because of elite pitch framing. I don't see his defense falling off a cliff by the time his team control runs out at age 27 either.

 

I've dug into the various catcher statistics and metrics and Kirk is better than average at every measurable aspect of defense behind the plate. He ranks very well in blocking, throwing, framing and pitch calling.

[Terminator]

[Daniel Labude]

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/2022-trade-value-21-to-30/

 

Kirk is 27 and Bo is 21 on Fangraphs Top Trade Value list.

 

I think they are unfairly knocking Kirk for his defense though, which they admit drops him for around the 15th spot overall to 27th. His defense seems fine to me but it plays up because of elite pitch framing. I don't see his defense falling off a cliff by the time his team control runs out at age 27 either.

 

Ohtani was 26th. So Kirk or Bo straight up for 1.5 years of Ohtani...would you do it?

[L54]

Ohtani was 26th. So Kirk or Bo straight up for 1.5 years of Ohtani...would you do it?

 

No way

[Terminator]

Ohtani was 26th. So Kirk or Bo straight up for 1.5 years of Ohtani...would you do it?

 

Well, with Jansen and Moreno around you'd have to consider moving Kirk for Ohtani straight up I would think. The lineup/Catching situation wouldn't take too much of a hit (lineup could be even better) and the rotation would add a frontline starter.

[John_Havok]

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/2022-trade-value-21-to-30/

 

Kirk is 27 and Bo is 21 on Fangraphs Top Trade Value list.

 

I think they are unfairly knocking Kirk for his defense though, which they admit drops him for around the 15th spot overall to 27th. His defense seems fine to me but it plays up because of elite pitch framing. I don't see his defense falling off a cliff by the time his team control runs out at age 27 either.

 

I breifed that article, but I would suspect it's because they dont know how long he can stay at catcher with the D he has. With his body shape, the spiral of physical limitations as a catcher will be real.

[max silver]

I breifed that article, but I would suspect it's because they dont know how long he can stay at catcher with the D he has. With his body shape, the spiral of physical limitations as a catcher will be real.

 

The article definitely throws plenty of shade at Kirk's defensive contributions. That portion of the breakdown is very poorly researched.

 

He’s built like a bowling ball, and small-sample framing numbers aside, he definitely appears stretched defensively. It’s no accident that Toronto’s favored defensive alignment has Kirk at DH.

 

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/2022-trade-value-21-to-30/

[Terminator]

I breifed that article, but I would suspect it's because they dont know how long he can stay at catcher with the D he has. With his body shape, the spiral of physical limitations as a catcher will be real.

 

But the list is based solely upon the value each player provides while under team control. So impending FAs take huge hits and basically don't appear on the list at all.

 

With Kirk, he is under team control through his age 27 season. Surely he can remain at C until then.

[JFD]

Lourdes benched tonight for his terrible base running mistake? Does this team actually have accountability now?

[Krylian]

Lourdes benched tonight for his terrible base running mistake? Does this team actually have accountability now?

 

Doubt it

[Solaxys]

[Terminator]

Smart move to start Kikuchi. Let's see if he looks like he can contribute down the stretch. If he looks ok, he and Castillo can probably hold down the fort the rest of the way through the season. (Might want to add a swingman anyway, but someone on the cheaper side.)

 

If he looks like ass again, then we probably need to add a bon a fide #5.

[JFD]

Smart move to start Kikuchi. Let's see if he looks like he can contribute down the stretch. If he looks ok, he and Castillo can probably hold down the fort the rest of the way through the season. (Might want to add a swingman anyway, but someone on the cheaper side.)

 

If he looks like ass again, then we probably need to add a bon a fide #5.

 

Pitching against the worst offence in MLB probably isn't the best gauge to see if he can contribute down the stretch

[JFD]

 

[John_Havok]

Pitching against the worst offence in MLB probably isn't the best gauge to see if he can contribute down the stretch

 

With Kikuchi it doesnt really matter who he's facing if he cant put his fastball in the zone.

[max silver]

Pitching against the worst offence in MLB probably isn't the best gauge to see if he can contribute down the stretch

 

Inability to place his pitches in or even near the strike zone has been Kikuchi's primary issue. If he's properly commanding his fastball the stuff should play just fine at the back of the rotation.

[max silver]

No kidding. He already struggled against the Royals, Athletics, and the Reds.

 

And conversely he's had pretty good starts against really good offences including twice against the Yankees and once against the Red Sox.

[Sammy225]

With Kikuchi it doesnt really matter who he's facing if he cant put his fastball in the zone.

 

Thats the f***ing frustrating thing watching him is when he has one of the few games where he can hit the strike zone (not necessarily command the strike zone) guys have a hard time squaring him up because he does have good stuff. But teams are going up there being really patient against him because they know he can't throw strikes. If he can throw strikes he is can be a solid #4,

[max silver]

Thats the f***ing frustrating thing watching him is when he has one of the few games where he can hit the strike zone (not necessarily command the strike zone) guys have a hard time squaring him up because he does have good stuff. But teams are going up there being really patient against him because they know he can't throw strikes. If he can throw strikes he is can be a solid #4,

 

He has the raw stuff to pitch mid rotation but even when he's on he's so inefficient that he typically hits his pitch limit after 5 innings.

[Solaxys]

We are facing Chi Chi Gonzalez, for the 3rd time in a 3rd uniform, on Friday.

We lost both games; is third time the charm?!

[G-Snarls]

Smart move to start Kikuchi. Let's see if he looks like he can contribute down the stretch. If he looks ok, he and Castillo can probably hold down the fort the rest of the way through the season. (Might want to add a swingman anyway, but someone on the cheaper side.)

 

If he looks like ass again, then we probably need to add a bon a fide #5.

 

Yeah. We can possibly manage the regular season with the starters we have.

 

In playoffs we would really mostly use

 

Manoah

Gausman

Berrios

 

In a 3 game WC series that's all you use, maybe with Stripling on speed dial if Berrios doesn't look right early.

 

In a 7 game series your probably use Stripling exactly once

 

I feel more strongly about acquiring a high leverage BP arm or two than a SP unless it's a low cost rental

Edited July 27, 2022 by G-Snarls

[max silver]

Yeah. We can possibly manage the regular season.

 

In the playoffs we would really only use

 

Manoah

Gausman

Berrios

 

I feel more strongly about acquiring a high meveral BP arm or two that a SP unless it's a low cost rental

 

If Kikuchi can throw strikes the team could certainly piggyback him with Stripling in the playoffs when a 4th starter is required.

[Jonn]

Letting Kikuchi get another start just feels like a big mistake to me. He better be on a short leash.

[max silver]

Letting Kikuchi get another start just feels like a big mistake to me. He better be on a short leash.

 

Whether Kikuchi pitches or not he's still getting paid. The team's coaching staff expended a ton of time and effort attempting to straighten him out. If he isn't given a chance to start the money, time and effort are all a complete waste. The team doesn't have a proper depth starter to take his place either at the moment, and the last few games started by the depth options were pretty terrible and the pen was burned out anyway. There's not much to lose by giving Kikuchi a start against a weak Tigers team.

[jaysblue]

Yeah. We can possibly manage the regular season with the starters we have.

 

In playoffs we would really mostly use

 

Manoah

Gausman

Berrios

 

In a 3 game WC series that's all you use, maybe with Stripling on speed dial if Berrios doesn't look right early.

 

In a 7 game series your probably use Stripling exactly once

 

I feel more strongly about acquiring a high leverage BP arm or two than a SP unless it's a low cost rental

 

Yeah if Berrios turns it around which it looks like he has recently, that Top 3 is good enough. In a 7 game series anyways, you would maybe use your No. 4 starter just once. Though you can never have enough pitching. Jays still need to get to the Postseason which is two months away. If an injury happens to Manoah or Gausman, Jays would be screwed. I still think it would be a good idea to add another starter, whether its a Castillo or Montas or Quintana or Kelly and/or go after an innings eater like Kuhl. One or the other. Won't hurt and at least if anything happens to Manoah or Gasuman, Blue Jays can still roll out a solid rotation the rest of the season and in the Postseason.

[Grant77]

I was just glancing and fangraphs top trade value players and we have 4 in the top 30. That's certainly pretty special.

 

Would you trade Gabriel Moreno for Ty France? Forget about the fit. It just seems odd to see him on the list.

 

Another interesting one. Would you trade Manoah for McClanahan?

[Terminator]

I think Gausman should have at least been HM on that list. He's expensive but so is Mookie Betts who is signed for far longer and is ranked in the 20s.

[RustyTrombone]

I was just glancing and fangraphs top trade value players and we have 4 in the top 30. That's certainly pretty special.

 

Would you trade Gabriel Moreno for Ty France? Forget about the fit. It just seems odd to see him on the list.

 

Another interesting one. Would you trade Manoah for McClanahan?

 

Rays would want more. Would be an insta yes if the Rays offered straight up.

[jaysblue]

Rays will trade McClanahan either during the offseason or next offseason before he becomes eligible for ARB.

[Orgfiller]

I was just glancing and fangraphs top trade value players and we have 4 in the top 30. That's certainly pretty special.

 

Would you trade Gabriel Moreno for Ty France? Forget about the fit. It just seems odd to see him on the list.

 

Another interesting one. Would you trade Manoah for McClanahan?

 

In a heartbeat. Manoah is excellent, McClanahan is better.