General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2022)

[BigCecil]

Thats what I was thinking. Even though last years team was horribly unlucky from a run differential perspective, just seems like they were more explosive last year and were getting much better pitching on a consistent basis.

 

We pissed last year away mostly because of the pen. Sound familiar? I think the team last year had so many positive surprises it surprised the FO we were as competitive so soon. With some LH thump and a couple of better pen arms the '21 team could have done some damage in the playoffs.

 

So far this season many of the assets we counted on to do even more in '22 have regressed. Berrios, Vlad, Bo, Teo etc.

[Krylian]

We pissed last year away mostly because of the pen. Sound familiar? I think the team last year had so many positive surprises it surprised the FO we were as competitive so soon. With some LH thump and a couple of better pen arms the '21 team could have done some damage in the playoffs. So far this season many of the assets we counted on to do even more in '22 have regressed. Berrios, Vlad, Bo, Teo etc.

The growth and development of a team is often not linear. This season seems to be one of those where there are bumps in the road and s*** that we thought would go our way, hasn't. I still feel confident that over the next couple of years we're gonna see an elite team on the field over the course of a calendar season and have a great shot at doing post-season damage....as long as that god damn bullpen is addressed properly. Edited July 5, 2022 by Krylian

[RustyTrombone]

We pissed last year away mostly because of the pen. Sound familiar? I think the team last year had so many positive surprises it surprised the FO we were as competitive so soon. With some LH thump and a couple of better pen arms the '21 team could have done some damage in the playoffs.

 

So far this season many of the assets we counted on to do even more in '22 have regressed. Berrios, Vlad, Bo, Teo etc.

 

Its just sad right? You always wanna see your team take a step forward and its so clear that the team has stagnated or even gotten worse from where they were at the end of last year. Hopefully some guys on the team wake the f*** up in the second half. (looking at you Bo and Berrios)

[BigCecil]

The growth and development of a team is often not linear. This season seems to be one of those where there are bumps in the road and s*** that we thought would go our way, hasn't. I till feel confident that over the next couple of years we're gonna see an elite team on the field over the course of a calendar season and have a great shot at doing post-season damage.

 

...as long as that god damn bullpen is addressed properly.

 

Exactly. Totally not linear. Thats why I was so pissed we blew last season IMO. I saw it as a failed season not a building block. There is 0 guarantee players get better and/or stay healthy the next year. The list of Bellingers and Yelichs is a mile long. You can't bank great individual performances and assume they just get better each year in a league of adjustments. Carpe Diem. I hope you are right but its shocks me we have pens like this back to back and so little to show in pitching development.

[Laika]

Definitely this has been a pretty awful year as far as fan enjoyment goes. Which is a bit weird I guess because the record is fine. It's just expectations not being met.

 

Bullpen - awful

Romano - declined

Merryweather and Pearson - disappointing and dead

Almost everyone else - either sucks or is boring and not showing much potential

 

Rotation - annoying

Kikuchi - worse than awful

Ryu - awful now done

Berrios - awful, mysteriously awful

Stripling - nice performance but not a huge factor

Gausman - awesome but he is f***in 6 and 6 so his games have had a lot of annoying losses

Manoah - awesome

 

Bats - annoying

Chapman - underperforming expectations and projections

Bichette - underperforming expectations and projections

Vlad - underperforming expectations and projections

Teoscar - underperforming expectations and projections

Jansen - missed entire season basically

Tapia and Zimmer - just horrendous to watch

Springer - treading water, playing time and DH stuff is constantly annoying though.

Gurriel - whatever. decent performance but annoying lack of pop.

Espinal - nice performance, but not an impact player

Biggio - nice bounce back, but not an impact player

Moreno - swings a pool noodle

Kirk - awesome

[Solaxys]

Thats what I was thinking. Even though last years team was horribly unlucky from a run differential perspective, just seems like they were more explosive last year and were getting much better pitching on a consistent basis.

 

First half, 81 games --- all the stats below are from these first 81 games:

43 - 38 record in 2021; RDiff of 57

44 - 37 record in 2022; RDiff of 20

 

Starting Pitching

Starter 1:

Ray 2021 had 3.36 ERA, 3.22 FIP, 1.3 WAR across 16 games (93.2 IP)

Gausman 2022 has 2.86 ERA, 1.68 FIP, 3.7 WAR across 16 games (88 IP - the 2nd inning exit against the Rays didn't help; would be closer to Ray otherwise)

Like without a doubt, Gausman has completely earned his contract and then some.

 

Starter 2:

Ryu 2021 had 3.65 ERA, 4.21 FIP, 1.1 WAR across 16 games (93.2 IP)

Manoah 2022 has 2.33 ERA, 3.83 FIP, 2.1 WAR across 16 games (100.1 IP)

Manoah has been infinitely better

 

Starter 3:

Matz 2021 had 4.60 ERA, 3.89 FIP, 1.2 WAR across 14 games (72.1 IP)

Berrios 2022 has 5.72 ERA, 5.16 FIP, -0.1 WAR across 16 games (83.1 IP)

Matz wins here and this is the most surprising thing considering what Berrios has done over multiple years before coming to Toronto.

 

Starter 4:

Stripling 2021 had 4.50 ERA, 4.69 FIP, 0.6 WAR across 13 games (64 IP)

Stripling 2022 has 3.16 ERA, 3.05 FIP, 1.2 WAR across 11 games (51.1 IP)

He has gotten much better this year

 

Starter 5:

Manoah + Kay + Zeuch 2021 had 4.01 ERA, 5.13 FIP, 0.5 WAR across 15 games (67.3 IP)

Kikuchi 2022 has 4.74 ERA, 5.57 FIP, -0.4 WAR across 15 games (62.2 IP)

Eh. Meh. If we removed Manoah from the equation and added all the spot starts we gave like 5 other people (including 3 to Thornton), Kikuchi would look better lol

 

Relief Pitching

2021: 3.92 ERA, 4.12 FIP, 1.9 WAR in the first half (310 IP); ranked 14th in MLB

2022: 4.34 ERA, 4.17 FIP, 0.6 WAR in the first 81 games (302.2 IP); ranked 23rd in MLB

Thornton has the most IP in both years and posted similar numbers (mid 4 ERA, FIP, -0.1 WAR) - I am 100% sure he's done after this year.

Romano has seriously regressed and we are using Richards instead of Payamps (and that's where the majority of issue lies)

Mayza doing better this year

Garcia/Cimber/Phelps doing better than Chatwood/Dolis/Castro

 

Offense

OF:

Hernandez 2021: 115 wRC+, 11 HR, 47 RBI

Hernandez 2022: 108 wRC+, 8 HR, 31 RBI

Pretty close considering the time missed (40 PA difference + timing issues once coming back from injury); walking the same but striking out 3% more

 

Gurriel 2021: 81 wRC+, 9 HR, 33 RBI, 2.7% Walk, 20.5% K Rate

Gurriel 2022: 122 wRC+, 5 HR, 34 RBI, 6.3% Walk, 17.5% K Rate

Most developed player; the stance change led to HR power going down a bit but his peripherals shot way up and his SLG got slightly better (more doubles)

Whether this is his hot streak or whether its a stable change for the better, we'll find out

 

Grichuk 2021: 95 wRC+, 15 HR, 55 RBI

Springer 2022: 129 wRC+, 15 HR, 47 RBI

Springer has been an upgrade; his BB/K ratio significantly better than Grichuk even though Springer has been pretty meh of late

 

C:

Jansen + McGuire 2021: 72 wRC+, 4 HR, 14 RBI

Kirk 2022: 159 wRC+, 10 HR, 33 RBI

I mean... lol

 

SS:

Bo 2021: 119 wRC+, 15 HR, 54 RBI, 6.3% BB, 21.6% K, 0.819 OPS

Bo 2022: 102 wRC+, 12 HR, 43 RBI, 5.8% BB, 24.2% K, 0.722 OPS - his OBP dropped nearly 40 points and SLG down 50 points.

Bo has not been the same, maybe because of the tough April but after a torrid May, he basically is back at these values since June to now.

 

3B/2B:

Espinal + Biggio 2021: 100 wRC+, 7 HR, 30 RBI, 11% Walk rate, 25% K rate

Espinal + Biggio 2022: 116 wRC+, 8 HR, 49 RBI, 12% Walk Rate, 22.4% K rate

Much better!

 

Semien 2021: 137 wRC+, 21 HR, 54 RBI, 9% Walk rate, 24% K rate, 0.891 OPS (349/542)

Chapman 2022: 90 wRC+, 11 HR, 37 RBI, 9% Walk rate, 25% K Rate, 0.677 OPS (287/390)

Yup.

 

1B:

Vlad 2021 had a 192 wRC+ through the first 81 games played (lol) - 27 HR, 69 RBI, 14.4% Walk, 17.2% K Rate, literally doing what JRam has been doing this year

He hasn't come close to posting that but still having a decent year of 137 wRC+, 19 HR, 53 RBI, 10.7% Walk, 18.2% K Rate

He is basically Semien's numbers from last year.

 

---

TL;DR

 

Pitching

We have improved our starting pitching dramatically by adding Gausman. If we had Ray this year, it wouldn't come close to what Gausman has been giving us.

Atkins should not be blamed really for Berrios being worse than Matz, considering who woulda thunk Berrios would forget how to pitch.

Kikuchi is basically all your random starters from last year put together into one package, with an upside. He is obviously more expensive though and has posted less IP cause of the three egregious starts.

I think if Verlander signed, Kikuchi would not have been signed. I think they would've gotten Verlander for the 25M and Gaus for 20M (which might have been why they wanted to save 5M from Grichuk).

 

Our relief corps actually got better statistically on paper pre-season but again Romano regressing and Richards posting the worst pitching of his career with us... shrugs.

Atkins should've gotten elite pitching, sure, but Garcia signing was the best he could do given what was available. Payamps 2.70 ERA v. Richards 6.30 ERA is literally the difference maker lol.

 

Offense

Teo is the same, Gurriel got better, Springer > Grichuk

Kirk >>>>> Jansen + McGuire combo of last year

Espinal + Biggio combo got better, with Biggio having a better year than any of his previous years.

 

If we say Vlad is having Semien's first half, the offensive output difference is basically Chapman not having a Vlad 2021 first half and Bo being ~17% worse than he was last first-half.

This is being somewhat compensated by Kirk having an offensive outburst but def not enough.

 

---

We basically added 6M in payroll from last year (so 3M for the first half) while

- Losing the first half of a MVP-caliber player season

- Losing consistent table-setting from Bo (for the first half)

- Getting regression from Romano and Richards

- Getting the weirdest performance issues from Berrios (like how do you forget to pitch after doing it for 6 yrs straight?!)

- Doing this weird DH rotation where we are giving two negative WAR players playtime, one of whom getting a LOT of playtime

- Going against even a stronger AL East cause of the horseshoe-up-their-arse Yankees

and yet we are 1-game up with only 37 Run Differential difference between the two first-halfs in a f***ing deadball year

 

This year has definitely been BY LARGE much better because we are finding stability in a lot of players + improving players that aren't your superstars.

Like I said before, we were just setup with some dumb expectations from the media and Vegas-projections, that we are basically getting disappointed by the way baseball should roll.

This is not a roster you go all-in with but come on, it has been the best since 2016.

 

We need to clean up our coaching staff, get two elite relief arms, develop some pipeline for starters/depth relief, flip some of our streaky hitters who love those non-competitive ABs with players who are smart (LHH por favor), and BOOM. We're there.

It'll take a year, maybe two - and we'll be contenders in both, but will be also be frustrating af.

Edited July 5, 2022 by Solaxys

[Olerud363]

Definitely this has been a pretty awful year as far as fan enjoyment goes. Which is a bit weird I guess because the record is fine. It's just expectations not being met.

 

 

It's been awful because it's just the same story since 1993. Many generations of teams that I thought should be best in division for a year or two just disappeared into nothing while Yankees and Red Sox brought Joy to their fan bases. 98, 2003, 2006, 2013, generation of teams all were promising in different ways but never able to compete at the top level.

 

There's really been 2 awesome months in the last 30 years (August/September 2015). While the Yankees and Red Sox have supplied their fans 100 or so awesome months.

 

2016 wasn't awesome, until first week of October it was as annoying as this season and Jays were out of playoff second last day of season, but pulled off a pretty incredible 6 game win streak (last 2 games in Fenway, Wild-card, ALDS) to make that season seem fun, but in-season it was just like this most of the way.

[Dagagad]

I find this team frustrating because I tend to look at baseball from a GM pov and we obviously have a good front office but probably the third best front office in our division. Jury is out on Boston and Baltimore.

 

We can’t construct a bullpen for s***, even though other teams are able to do so. Smarter teams. We spend a s*** ton on pitching and don’t have any depth there somehow after 7 years. Our front office talked this big talk about sustainable success and being the dodgers and have not lived up to that at all in the types of moves they make.

 

These are dumb things to be angry about. 85% of mlb teams would love these problems. It’s just tough when two of the smartest teams in baseball are in your division.

[wilko]

Definitely this has been a pretty awful year as far as fan enjoyment goes. Which is a bit weird I guess because the record is fine. It's just expectations not being met.

 

Bullpen - awful

Romano - declined

Merryweather and Pearson - disappointing and dead

Almost everyone else - either sucks or is boring and not showing much potential

 

Rotation - annoying

Kikuchi - worse than awful

Ryu - awful now done

Berrios - awful, mysteriously awful

Stripling - nice performance but not a huge factor

Gausman - awesome but he is f***in 6 and 6 so his games have had a lot of annoying losses

Manoah - awesome

 

Bats - annoying

Chapman - underperforming expectations and projections

Bichette - underperforming expectations and projections

Vlad - underperforming expectations and projections

Teoscar - underperforming expectations and projections

Jansen - missed entire season basically

Tapia and Zimmer - just horrendous to watch

Springer - treading water, playing time and DH stuff is constantly annoying though.

Gurriel - whatever. decent performance but annoying lack of pop.

Espinal - nice performance, but not an impact player

Biggio - nice bounce back, but not an impact player

Moreno - swings a pool noodle

Kirk - awesome

 

Nailed it.

[Deadpool]

Happened to check the Transaction page, and this is from today:

 

07/05/22 Toronto Blue Jays traded 2B Leonel Callez to Atlanta Braves.

 

There's no corresponding move, nor does it say "for cash" like it does for Banda. Anyone have any idea what this is? I'd suggest part of a larger move, but it's odd that they'd only put one part of a trade up on the transaction page.

[AMS528]

I posted this at some point during the offseason, but there were a decent number of things that were just not replicable from last years team. You had four guys (Vlad, Semien, Bo, Teo) put up 4+ WAR seasons. Two of them played like actual MVP candidates.

 

I had a feeling Vlad wouldn't repeat. Guys don't necessarily put up peak numbers year after year even if they still perform well. The Semien to Chapman performance is a huge downgrade (I also thought Semien was having a much worse season this year, but after a horrific April, he's actually pretty easily outperforming Chapman).

 

It's hard to replicate those kinds of performances, so it sucks when you have a season like last year and miss out on the playoffs.

 

Now we get OK performances from a bunch of guys, but a decent amount of disappointment relative to expectation. Jays best hope for the rest of the year is really Berrios, Bichette and Teo performing like they did last year. If that happens, there's a some winning streaks in there, otherwise it'll be more of this.

[Laika]

Happened to check the Transaction page, and this is from today:

 

07/05/22 Toronto Blue Jays traded 2B Leonel Callez to Atlanta Braves.

 

There's no corresponding move, nor does it say "for cash" like it does for Banda. Anyone have any idea what this is? I'd suggest part of a larger move, but it's odd that they'd only put one part of a trade up on the transaction page.

 

I bet they just gave him away. He is 21 and was in the complex league, doing poorly.

 

Maybe Atlanta wanted an organizational guy just to fill a position for complex games.

 

"hey, do you guys have any infielders down here who you are about the cut? we need a guy who to stand in for the rest of the year..."

[Laika]

Watching Winckowski nuke AAA and hold his own in a Red Sox uniform hurts a lot.

 

This is a guy that must of us identified as a legit sleeper back in 2018...

[Solaxys]

I think Baltimore has a better FO. We're lucky their ownership is a travesty. They have actually conjured up pitching from completely thin air and have a lot more on the way. Our pitching WAR is basically signing Gausman and lol.

 

Boston just got 3 straight emergency outings from Winckowski, Seabold and Crawford. We're just way behind every other team in terms of organizational pitching. I don't see how you can have any realistic window when you're the worst in your division with pitching depth.

 

Considering we started rebuilding in 2018-2019 off-season, our pitching depth is as expected

We were still trying to make playoffs in 2017/2018 and so didn't really go after prospect depth

Then for w.e reason, we held on to Stroman & JD in 2019 instead of trading for prospect capital (maybe we didn't get anything good, so held on to them for one more year)

 

We have interesting pitching prospects in A/A+/AA, just not in AAA (aside from Hernandez who was injured).

We are doing exactly the same things Rays have been doing by signing risk pitchers to MilB (Lawrence, Gage) and you can see some semblance of depth in Castillo (who was an international signing in 2016).

 

I am not sure if there is an organization that completely developed robust organizational depth after their previous FO zeroed it with trades for postseason pushes, within 3-4 yrs.

What was it, we traded like 11 arms from minors for the 2015 push?

Our farm was also lacking after we promoted Vlad/Bo/Teo/Gurriel (it was ranked 21st I believe).

 

---

There also seems to be players in/from our organization (minors) that have signed elsewhere during/after 2020 season if they didn't play.

Wonder how much the pandemic rules forced Atkins to give up assets.

[BigCecil]

It's been awful because it's just the same story since 1993. Many generations of teams that I thought should be best in division for a year or two just disappeared into nothing while Yankees and Red Sox brought Joy to their fan bases. 98, 2003, 2006, 2013, generation of teams all were promising in different ways but never able to compete at the top level.

 

There's really been 2 awesome months in the last 30 years (August/September 2015). While the Yankees and Red Sox have supplied their fans 100 or so awesome months.

 

2016 wasn't awesome, until first week of October it was as annoying as this season and Jays were out of playoff second last day of season, but pulled off a pretty incredible 6 game win streak (last 2 games in Fenway, Wild-card, ALDS) to make that season seem fun, but in-season it was just like this most of the way.

 

Depressing but accurate. 2016 was a pretty lame year after '15. But hey Edwin bashed a HR to walk off the Orioles in the wildcard while Britton sat in the pen, and then Odor threw a ball away at 1B on a DP so JD could sprint home and score vs TEX.

 

All of a sudden we are playing CLE and reverting back to getting reamed by Andrew Miller and struggling against their SP. Mostly '16 felt like '22 so far.

[Solaxys]

In any case, this better be the last god damn year we use Trent as a high-leverage reliever.

Tried it for two years, while he isn't as bad this year, he still doesn't have the command to not offer up meatballs.

 

Stripling's contract is done after this year and Trent will basically take his spot as a long-man relief and/or low-leverage inning eater.

[BigCecil]

Definitely this has been a pretty awful year as far as fan enjoyment goes. Which is a bit weird I guess because the record is fine. It's just expectations not being met.

 

Bullpen - awful

Romano - declined

Merryweather and Pearson - disappointing and dead

Almost everyone else - either sucks or is boring and not showing much potential

 

Rotation - annoying

Kikuchi - worse than awful

Ryu - awful now done

Berrios - awful, mysteriously awful

Stripling - nice performance but not a huge factor

Gausman - awesome but he is f***in 6 and 6 so his games have had a lot of annoying losses

Manoah - awesome

 

Bats - annoying

Chapman - underperforming expectations and projections

Bichette - underperforming expectations and projections

Vlad - underperforming expectations and projections

Teoscar - underperforming expectations and projections

Jansen - missed entire season basically

Tapia and Zimmer - just horrendous to watch

Springer - treading water, playing time and DH stuff is constantly annoying though.

Gurriel - whatever. decent performance but annoying lack of pop.

Espinal - nice performance, but not an impact player

Biggio - nice bounce back, but not an impact player

Moreno - swings a pool noodle

Kirk - awesome

 

This is excellent and accurate, but the opposite of Wilner ish. He is much more Baghdad Bob like.

[Laika]

I think Baltimore has a better FO. We're lucky their ownership is a travesty. They have actually conjured up pitching from completely thin air and have a lot more on the way. Our pitching WAR is basically signing Gausman and lol.

 

Boston just got 3 straight emergency outings from Winckowski, Seabold and Crawford. We're just way behind every other team in terms of organizational pitching. I don't see how you can have any realistic window when you're the worst in your division with pitching depth.

 

Baltimore does not have a better FO, that's nuts.

 

1) it's much easier to pull pitching out of a hat when you have nothing on the line at the MLB level. You can just run shitbags out there with complete disregard for their projections or likely outcomes, just because you like one specific thing they do.

 

2) their park factors are dramatic this year for suppressing runs; some of their pitching is a mirage right now.

[Stangstag]

Depressing but accurate. 2016 was a pretty lame year after '15. But hey Edwin bashed a HR to walk off the Orioles in the wildcard while Britton sat in the pen, and then Odor threw a ball away at 1B on a DP so JD could sprint home and score vs TEX.

 

All of a sudden we are playing CLE and reverting back to getting reamed by Andrew Miller and struggling against their SP. Mostly '16 felt like '22 so far.

 

IDK if you recall, but the Jays actually had better hitting stats in the ALCS than Cleveland did. Ran into the Miller buzzsaw, but that series was totally winnable. A couple timely hits by Cleveland were the difference. That's baseball.

 

If this years team is comparable to 2016, i'll take that any day.

[BigCecil]

IDK if you recall, but the Jays actually had better hitting stats in the ALCS than Cleveland did. Ran into the Miller buzzsaw, but that series was totally winnable. A couple timely hits by Cleveland were the difference. That's baseball.

 

If this years team is comparable to 2016, i'll take that any day.

 

funny. i don't remember it that way but i believe you. I remember Bauer and that soft tosser Tomlin also killing us. I do remember it that way against KC in '15 for sure. And Alcides raking etc. JD and Martin smashing balls right at people. Ump show in GM 6. etc.

 

If you have those '16 series stats handy please post or PM them. Glutton for punishment here.

 

Im not comparing the teams & talent...just how the seasons felt, to me anyway.

[Stangstag]

funny. i don't remember it that way but i believe you. I remember Bauer and that soft tosser Tomlin also killing us. I do remember it that way against KC in '15 for sure. And Alcides raking etc. IF you have those '16 series stats handy please post or PM them. Glutton for punishment here.

 

2016 ALCS team offensive stats:

 

Cleveland: .168 AVG/ .215 OBP/ .329 SLG/ .554 OPS (39 Ks)

 

Toronto: .201 AVG/ .251 OBP/ .283 SLG/ .534 OPS (50 Ks)

 

Can't find the advanced stats. Its not exactly as I remembered, but an extremely close and well-pitched series. Could have gone either way.

[Dagagad]

Baltimore does not have a better FO, that's nuts.

 

1) it's much easier to pull pitching out of a hat when you have nothing on the line at the MLB level. You can just run shitbags out there with complete disregard for their projections or likely outcomes, just because you like one specific thing they do.

 

2) their park factors are dramatic this year for suppressing runs; some of their pitching is a mirage right now.

 

I agree with number 2 but um we were bad for a while there, where’s all the pitching we pulled out of a hat?

 

I get the optimism on our pitching dev but it’s clearly obvious to me that we aren’t one of the ‘smart’ front offices. The cimber trade is the only trade I can think of that we got a pitcher on great value.

 

The rays have several trades in the same span where they did that.

 

I absolutely believe that the orioles will be better at it going forward because they are Houston guys. They get the benefit of the doubt. 7 years is enough time to think we might have got the wrong Cleveland guys. Whoever at Cleveland identified the guys they traded for or developed them obviously didn’t come over .

[Laika]

Elias and Mejdal are super nerds from the Astros player dev and analytics system. Atkins is good with MLB transactions but he's a nerdy ex-player, not a real nerd. I don't think he has the capacity to build out an organization wide pitching development system that stays ahead of the game. I think he's reactionary and a little behind.

 

It's fine to say that Baltimore's FO shows promise but it's wayyyyy to early to say they are better than Toronto's, all things considered.

[Jimcanuck]

I find the trashing of the FO to be a joke. So the Jays are currently in a bit of a funk. Come playoff time things might be different.

 

When this season started everyone was excited about the team the FO put together, FFS.

[Laika]

I agree with number 2 but um we were bad for a while there, where’s all the pitching we pulled out of a hat?

 

I get the optimism on our pitching dev but it’s clearly obvious to me that we aren’t one of the ‘smart’ front offices. The cimber trade is the only trade I can think of that we got a pitcher on great value.

 

The rays have several trades in the same span where they did that.

 

I absolutely believe that the orioles will be better at it going forward because they are Houston guys. They get the benefit of the doubt. 7 years is enough time to think we might have got the wrong Cleveland guys. Whoever at Cleveland identified the guys they traded for or developed them obviously didn’t come over .

 

This is pretty dumb.

 

You have some valid complaints about the current roster construction / organizational depth but you are taking them way too far.

 

Deep breaths.

[Solaxys]

I find the trashing of the FO to be a joke. So the Jays are currently in a bit of a funk. Come playoff time things might be different.

 

When this season started everyone was excited about the team the FO put together, FFS.

 

Right? lol.

 

Anyway: https://www.mlb.com/all-star/ballot?affiliateId=asb-mediawall-mlb-2022

 

VOTE FOOLS.

[keggy]

Kirk has played 20 games this season as DH. Guerrero has played 18. Springer has also played 18.

 

I don't think I'll ever understand why they bench Kirk so often so that Guerrero can DH. I sort of get it with Springer.

 

And then Teoscar, the guy with an actual soft tissue injury this year, has almost no games played at DH. And then guys like Bichette and Espinal who are playing demanding positions just don't get scheduled days off period.

 

I don't know what kind of algorithm they're using to distribute the DH PAs, but it doesn't seem to be prioritizing injury prevention to me.

[BigCecil]

I find the trashing of the FO to be a joke. So the Jays are currently in a bit of a funk. Come playoff time things might be different.

 

When this season started everyone was excited about the team the FO put together, FFS.

 

Trashing is way too strong. Are they above some criticism? Who really thought this pen was a good and competitive pen? Who didn't think we need some LHH impact balance? Who was over the moon about the Kooch signing or obtaining Tapia? Who is happy with the pitching development? Read the comments about the Berrios deal when it happened last year including yours. Its half way through the season and the most obvious holes are showing glaringly again. Its all on the heels of missing the playoffs in '21 by a single game. Still a bit raw.

 

Lets see what the deadline and the last 80 brings. Its a reasonable and fair conversation 7 years in in my view. Is it a little over heated because of last 10 and how its gone so far in '22? Maybe.

[Stangstag]

Kirk has played 20 games this season as DH. Guerrero has played 18. Springer has also played 18.

 

I don't think I'll ever understand why they bench Kirk so often so that Guerrero can DH. I sort of get it with Springer.

 

And then Teoscar, the guy with an actual soft tissue injury this year, has almost no games played at DH. And then guys like Bichette and Espinal who are playing demanding positions just don't get scheduled days off period.

 

I don't know what kind of algorithm they're using to distribute the DH PAs, but it doesn't seem to be prioritizing injury prevention to me.

 

Vlad has some kind of nagging wrist issue

[Jimcanuck]

Trashing is way too strong. Are they above some criticism? Who really thought this pen was a good and competitive pen? Who didn't think we need some LHH impact balance? Who was over the moon about the Kooch signing or obtaining Tapia? Read the comments about the Berrios deal when it happened last year including yours. Its half way through the season and the most obvious holes are showing glaringly again. Its all on the heels of missing the playoffs in '21 by a single game. Still a bit raw.

 

Lets see what the deadline and the last 80 brings. Its a reasonable and fair conversation 7 years in in my view. Is it a little over heated because of last 10 and how its gone so far n '22? Maybe.

 

Really the only weakness coming into the season was pitching depth, but there was an expectation in season additions would be made, which is still likely. I think there was an expectation Pearson would be a contributor, also.

 

What has happened so far is essentially statistical noise. More players are underperforming projections than are not. Which in theory at least, mean the 2nd half will yield better results.